So, with the recent event, a couple of new areas have been added, some of which have some very lucrative rewards...

Of course, they're on Prime.

Prime means the Avenger interferes

And a couple of these quests are in areas that have no enemy status.

Thus, as I've spent the last 24 hours trying to get a bugged quest working, I've realised that it's very easy to completely block a quest with utter immunity.. You can influence with paranoia, and kill them, and since there's no enemy status, you're protected.

I'm curious if this complete ease-of-prevention was what the Admin intended when they implemented two of the most intriguing quest chains in the game.

And furthermore I'd like feedback from the playerbase. Is it unrealistic to expect that quests should be so easily prevented, all the while cowering behind the protections of avenger/suspect?

Yes, sadly. It's kind of annoying, but the alternative (as with other areas) seems to be simply allowing people to completely bypass Avenger by jumping people for no reason when they're bashing areas that enemy them. For example, ar'thart. Barely anyone has a legitimate reason to protect that, but if you jump someone bashing lucidians there you don't get status - so people wait until someone's bashing lucidians, then go jump them. Lame.

Since this happens a lot more than quest blocking does (wait a couple days and you'll probably be fine) either quest blocking is going to have to be a sacrificial lamb or some other solution is going to have to be found.

There are some easy steps that could mitigate the problem.. Enemy statuses for big quests (why something as huge as Soulforge, which is bound to be a back and forth thing, is not something that should be avenger-blocked). Furthermore, make quest mobs uninfluenceable by paranoia.

The whole point of paranoia is stopping quests.

I do agree more areas should enemy, but you can still kill them once in retaliation.

Then, Visaeris, how do you suggest people to stop certain quests from happening on Prime? As you said, people can hide behind Avenger.

For all those wondering what this is about, this is regarding the recent events and new quest. Zacc, the character, has taken it upon himself to make sure it's not completed so that people don't have to go through all the trouble again (like 500 power being drained from the nexus and having to go to a plane with extremely powerful creatures just to end it).

Either way, it's still a two sided coin. Either the person preventing it will be protected by Avenger, or the person doing the quest (which will likely hurt another org, thus the player) will be protected. There's no way around it unless quest mobs are made super strong, but then that forces quests upon people (like org conflict quests), or Avenger is taken away, and that's not going to happen.

I'd like to bring up the gorgog quest. We all know some people are infamous for slaying quest mobs. There are many quests that can be ruined. It happens all the time and there's no way around it.

What's the phrase... "Harden up, princess"?

I'd just like to say that paranoia is underused.

There's no need to turn this into a flamewar. Visaeris has a valid point. Quests go both ways in this regard - for example, imagine it being the reverse way around, and Visaeris kills Adelie and hides behind Avenger, meaning we can never deactivate it (pretend that actually happens if it doesn't, because there are quests (Hifarae) where it does apply.)

If there should be enemy status for ruining a quest, there should be enemy status for doing a quest, especially if it's one that's in direct opposition to a specific territory or org (like aslarans and krokani or org conflict quests... releasing orcs upon a village, etc.).

Making quest denizens immune to paranoia makes the paranoia ability completely useless. There are already a few that are immune to it.

I'd have to disagree, Zacc. This is exactly the sort of activity for which there shouldn't be a simple block.

Me, I think they should have put the quest mobs offprime. They want to move conflict offprime, this would have been a good place for it. Maybe they can move all of it inside Muud. I assume it's considered offprime?

Moving the quest to off prime is fine and dandy with me.

But I'd like to know what your suggestion to stopping it would be, Eldanien. Should there be a counter quest to ensure it isn't raised? Should it resort back to who has transed the most skills? This is the problem with conflict quests. This particular one hurts an org and takes a lot of people to stop once started.

Talking about moving things off-prime just evades the point. This kind of thing isn't unique to this quest and it is problematic as long as such quests exist.

I'm fine with enemy statuses for counterquests.

Or offprime. I just think that major quest givers(not just soulforge-related) should have consequences attached.



Oh and to clarify, this takes a lot of people to *start*. It's not like you just hit the button and out pops a powered up Balloon of DOom

AB INFLUENCE REASSURANCE
Ego Battle: Consolement
Reasoning with the paranoid can be a challenging task. Unlike other ego battles, there is only one tactic employable - repeated, logical reasoning to reassure the individual that their paranoia is unfounded.


Essentially, influence skill used specifically to counter paranoia. Consider it the 'level 3' version of that ego battle. Since you don't have the other forms to mingle with it, you're more likely build resistance. Set resistance to the skill such that it's lengthy, but not impossible. Trans skill and 14 charisma should all but guaranteed to succeed after a few minutes. If you have the Charisma of a drunken slug (or worse, Illithoid), then you'd better get a Blessing of Beauty, throne, and any other charisma boosts you can get.

Or summon your friendly high-charisma influencer of choice.

And if they're standing there ready to divert or influence again, that's why you have citymates.

this is a great idea.. It doesn't quite address the issue of people killing quest mobs. What other ideas you got in your head?

Killing quest mobs should get enemy status where logical, in my opinion.

And where not logical... erm... tag, who's next for ideas? I'll think on this a bit.

While I have no opinion on this specific quest, I am going to agree that paranoia is woefully underused and really only exists to muck up a quest.

To clarify my suggested influence ability, this influence skill should not fail given enough time. But if you've got 7 charisma and just barely enough Influence to learn the skill, then it should take a while.

This ensures that once you have the ability, you can and will be able to 'cure' paranoia. But you'd better bring the bromides if you're not skilled up and/or high charisma.

They should give enemy status, yes. However, certain quest mobs are unaffiliated with a particular group or area (Melpith and Etilla are an example.. just what would they enemy you to- their laboratory?). I can see getting enemied to naga for killing Nagahala, but not the entire area. It would have to be split in two since the laboratory has no naga in it and the Muhanlesh caverns have no mugwump researchers. This is just one of many examples that enemy status would apply to when slaying quest mobs.

Slay all the krokani? Branded an enemy of the tower. Slay all the aslarans? Branded enemy of the camp.

Am I the only one seeing this as a bit excessive? You can't make killing all quest mobs give enemy status to that area/group or else people wouldn't have anymore places to hunt on Prime. But then again, that could be good for influencing- never getting enemied to something because you're not slaying them.

There are still other ways of preventing people from doing quests. Great pentagram, anyone?

Yeah, because 1 minute is really worth that 10 power.

I stick by what I said. Paranoia is underused.