I'm fine with there being a serpent/grace-like effect from vitae and vitae-like abilities. However, it should not work in enemy territory. As was seen in the raid on Celest last night, one enemy was able to escape through Grace (strolled right out the harbor). Now what if that enemy was carrying the corpses of his/her orgmates for immolation? Until Grace is reworked to become nullified in enemy territory, I don't think it would be fair to allow enemies protection while they're raiding.

Pot meet kettle.

The amount of times we have seen you abuse grace to strip harvest or stand around enemy territories should automatically void any opinion you have on any grace topic. Period.

I had to:

Can I echo his opinions of grace then? There's no good reason for grace to work off-prime or in enemy territory. Just leaves room for mags to sit on Celestia graced for taunting purposes, or people to spy on your group, or someone to get grace and strip harvest earwort, or things like that. Very annoying, and I can't think of any benefit to letting it happen. Grace should only exist to aid in retreating after death, and if you're off prime, you're not retreating (as far as I know, you can't get grace off prime, so if you have grace off prime, you went there on purpose). Same goes for innocense. You leave prime or enter enemy territory, get a warning, and 15 seconds your grace is gone. When you're back in a place where grace is okay, and all of your active fights expire (or 30 seconds pass, whichever's longer), you'd get grace back if you would have still had it if you had never left.

Yes you can echo the opinions, because you never hid behind grace like that. But remember that the same has been done to probably every org. I remember Soll spying under grace or "acting as a port target" a long time back too. I wasn't pleased with it but it was my grandpa I couldn't complain too much.

You are right though, hiding behind grace for any org is shitty. Just don't let Zacc talk about it, since we all know he is one of the culprits who has even wanted to have things like perma grace before, so he could do just what you are talking about.

Oh... btw.... I miss you Acrune!!!!



Ok, I wasn't sure about that... which is why I would choose mactans if it covered me on all things that froze, from spectres to gars to aquas to liches. But if they will make sure it doesn't then yeah I guess it may not have as many benifits.

I'm sorry if you failed to thoroughly read my post. To help you better understand, I will put it in simple terms: I refered to EN-E-MY territory, you know, where SURVEY shows up as a specific ORG territory and I get extra xp loss from it. This is known as org territory, not claimed territory.

Now why you're trying to discredit anything I have to suggest, even if it is a very valid suggestion to prevent Grace abuse while raiding, sounds a little... fishy. Oh hey, according to your opinion I abuse Grace, and now that I'm suggesting a way to prevent Grace abuse (something I'm accused of doing) you're trying to shoot it down without question. Amazing. Simply amazing. So I take it you're all for Grace abuse?

Grace has its own issues that should be discussed elsewhere. Grace applied to the suggested changes in the beginning post... now that's suitable for discussion here.

And don't even bother with the Earth is Magnagora territory, because if it's official territory, I want org conglutination on Elemental/Ethereal/Cosmic planes. Thnx a bunch. As for the strip harvesting, which has no place in this thread, it was not an aggressive action. It's no different than someone buying out all the commodities in a comm shop. Both are resources and can be obtained by anyone with the ability (gold or skill). Go figure. Strip harvesting does not involve raiding an organization, slaying its members and destroying its resources.

Edit: And now I'm waiting for the typical Magnagora forum squad to chime in... Hurry up, I don't feel like waiting.

Zacc, there is so much wrong with what you just said, that other people can hopefully show you the errors. And you are already defending your stripharvesting tactics? Dude, yeah... I can't even begin to respond to how silly that last post sounded. Hopefully someone else, maybe even one from your own org will show you your follies. Let Acrune speak on your behalf please, for your own sake.

Thats a new one. The sponge speaks wisdom?

That I suggested Grace not apply for the new changes while in enemy territory? Ok, fine. I want Grace or serpent when I vitae in enemy territory during a raid so I can either redef or run away safely.

As for the strip harvesting, hey you brought it up in order to discredit my suggestion. Why not defend myself? Then again, I suppose it would have just been better to ignore your post instead of letting you know that someone actually read it (besides Acrune).

It honestly sounds to me as if you support Grace abuse, since you're making an effort to shoot down my anti-abuse suggestion. Regardless, this is not the place to discuss that.

To keep on topic, if grace or serpent-like effects are added to the abilities being discussed, please disable those effects in enemy territory... at least until Grace has been reworked to disable in enemy territories and other Planes (and possibly none-peaced revolts), as Acrune mentioned.

I'm enemied to Magnagora, so I can't qualify for their forum squad. It isn't a personal crusade against your city or you as an individual Zacc, but you do say some pretty off-kilter things. I mean, I'm not even a herbalist, but I know that strip harvesting is a totally different animal than buying out all the health refills in a shop or something. Have you read the various files on the subject at all? Herbs are a self renewing resource to an extent, but if you strip harvest, you kill them off. People don't get upset about it because you took all the herbs- they get upset about it because, in taking all the herbs, you have really hurt the future herbs available to pick. It's basically shooting youself in the foot for a very marginal and short term gain.

Edit: No longer off topic, because Shiri split it.

Argue it here.

You're MEAN.

(Should this thread be in Idiots! ?)

You do, you ooze with well lets just call it wisdom.

Character insults aside, disallowing grace (and any possible barriers resulting from experience loss being discussed in the adjoining thread) off prime and in org enemy territory is a rather reasonable idea. The common skill, conglutination, already gives everyone the ability to resurrect in a safe area if a death happened off prime. Organizational enemy territory should carry additional risk and thus preventing the above two effects from activating makes sense. It should not apply to npc enemy territory, however, as those really do not share the same mechanic with organizational territory and aren't part of its essential holdings.

*Almost* everyone. Conglutination doesn't do a thing for poor Malicia. Or Sojiro, Ilyarin, Nejii, or myself.

Or any of the demigods, too.

Or anyone who hasn't transed Planar.

They hacked this in by saying, "Well, any Demigod is going to have Trans Planar, so we'll just make death Off-Prime cost a lot less essence to mimic Conglutination."

Thus, it does, in a sense.

Yeah, seems dodgy to me, but point taken.

That was my thought as well.

But hey, if you're not penta-trans, you're not worthy of consideration anyways.