For the longest time, I've absolutely despised the monk class for no apparent reason. I just couldn't stand them, and while unreasonable hate is very bad, I couldn't find any reason to like them. So, I looked for that reason, and all I found was a reason to not like them. You see, I don't understand what they add to the city. At least, that is what I feel regarding the Tahtetso. You've got the Celestines, which act as Spiritual leaders. The Paladins that act as Guards and Warriors. Aquamancers, who work as scholars and sages. And the Cantors, who add joy, entertainment and culture in general to the city. But the Tahtetso... can kick well? Is that all they add to the city? An alternative way to beat stuff up? Surely, there must be more. Though I've yet to meet someone who can give me an answer to that. So... I extend my attempt to the forum, in hopes that here I can perhaps get an answer to what purpose there is to the monks, and to what niche they fill.

Thanks in advance.

They don't fill a niche at all. Attempts were made (at least in the Shofangi) to actually get ourselves integrated into the Commune - and the admin gave us time and warning to do so, unlike with the bards, so that helped.

But for various reasons, some of them us-related and some of them class-related, it didn't take. One reason is that we're way too similar to warriors in combat - and outside of solo combat, our skills don't do anything special. So we're pretty reundant with them. Another is that we don't have any mobs or other mechanical integration with orgs. We have the kephera, but they're pretty inaccessible for your average person (and even I can't find all the hives easily without Caffrey's map.)

There have been a couple of tries to fix the skill problems but they haven't taken either for reasons outside our control (unlike the last bit, which I think is at least partly our fault for just not coming up with good enough stuff, though we did try.) The frustration the class skills entail also makes us leak members like a...sponge or something. Though the Tahtetso seem to be doing slightly better for one reason or another.

Like a sieve, Shiri. Not a sponge, sponges absorb. And the Tahtetso do better because they are a Celest guild and are therefore OP. which is an attraction to some people

Damn, I really couldn't think of that simile. That'll teach me to ask my mum when I'm stuck on a word.

Fever dreams.

I think monks add a different kind of bruiser, other than warriors. Obvious? Yes, but let me explain.

Think of like a Shaolin monastery in a city. Code of honor, mild pacifism...maybe a wise sage or two. The way I see it, it's like a fusing of the scholarly mages and the ass-kicking Warriors. But that's just my take. Also, monk guilds are still fairly new and haven't had much of a chance to get much of an RP sense, at least the way I see it. Give it time, says I.

I've hung around on Imperian before, 2 years ago. The monks there didn't really "add" a whole lot.. They were supposed to be solitary and whatnot, like a real monk, but most people just played them for PvP and didn't really involve themselves in the RP aspect..

The RP of a monk to me is.. well, a monk.. I don't know how else to really explain it in such a simple manner, as everyone should have a basic idea of how a monk acts. They didn't offer much to anyone except themselves.. Or did they? A monk can offer spiritualistism. That is their nature. While they might not have any skills that contribute, they have RP that can contribute if you look for it.

That's just what I learned from Imperian though.

Monks here at least aren't totally bound up to act like something out of a David Caradine movie.

Their RP though always seems so seperate to me. It's like some private little monk war between the Kephera and the Illithids. If I could give the class a makeover, I'd focus more on the whole psionic attatchment thing of both of them, rather than make them warrior-esque-people-I-still-can't-kill-because-I can-never-touch-their-legs-if-they've-spent-lessons-in-combat.

Like, instead of just the kata thing, make give them something else to do as well. Maybe let them impact demenses in some way- not make their own, but hinder or amplify the effects of them with their psionics or some such.

I think this is a problem that can only be solved IG by players. As in, the monk guilds need to talk to their members and decide what they -want- their place to be, then present themselves like that. I'd love to see Player-defined RP in this way.

How the Shofangi should be.

Sorry. Geek attack. But he is cool...

For me, I was planning on changing the direction of the Ebonguard as soon as the Emofists come out.

To me, the commune can now go through a phase of change where the warriors can focus on the body/spirit , and the emofists can focus on the body/mind.

Before the announcemnt of monks, the ebonguard tried (poorly) to be both the physical scholar and the physical shaman. I expcet the emofists to take up being the physical scholars with an intelectual interest on the Wyrd and higher planes (i.e. astral)

QFT; Obi-Wan ftw.




ON TOPIC!


I guess you kinda have to be a warrior, but look at it from my standpoint. Ever since the damage cap (a roundabout "nerf" for high Str races), being a damage w e without being a Titan/Demi with perfect weapons+artifacts is kinda pointless. Don't get me wrong, it's still totally viable to use high damage weapons if you're a mid-level combatant like me, as long as you know which situations to use damage (*cough*squishy monks*cough*).

All that aside, warrior combat revolves around damage+deepwounds+afflictions based on deepwound levels. Now that (most) organizations now have dedicated monk AND warrior combatants, the physical aspect of Lusternian combat becomes exponentially more deadly. Whenever a monk lands a hit, he deals deepwounds like a warrior. A monk and warrior working in tandem can achieve the upper levels of wounding (Heavy, Critical) rather quickly. Both the monk and the warrior bring their own sets of physical afflictions (stuns, broken bones, bleeding guts/foreheads/arteries)+multiple poisons+damage, which makes for a large number of cures needed.

Revan (a Ninjakari) and I have done some dabbling and theorizing, and the possible combinations are mind boggling.


In my opinion, monks have expanded the possible play style options for new and current players, a feature which Lusternia prides itself on, and added a sort of 'companion' for warriors for combat. I wasn't too enthused about the monk class when I first heard about it (mainly because it was announced relatively soon after , but I've become rather attached to the little buggers. I can't wait for the Glomdoring monk guild

Not overly - especially from a bashing standpoint.

From a defensive standpoint they are fairly impossible to beat - 13 con, L3 blunt/cutting resist, moderate to high DMP, greatrobes/splendours and no sipping or balance penalties. If I knew their tertiary I'd comment on that, but I can't remember what they do. They aren't too shabby offensive-wise too because of the monks autoraze and normal balance times, only really losing out to aslaran and faeling for speed (because nobody ever goes furrikin).

I also think monks should do something player driven to interact with their city. The Ninjakari might have it easier with the Stealth skill set. You know the whole spy, intelligence type thing. The other two would have to focus on the more spiritual aspects of being a monk. Or not...

I think if we get creative enough we can come up with all sorts of ways monks can benefit their city.

Yeah, I can see how the Ninjakari fit a niche, what with being suitable as assassins and spies. But for the others, or at least the Tahtetso, I don't find such a niche. And that is something they should have. From what I gather, the Tahtetso don't even have a unified purpose within the guild. Just a strange mishmash of Taosim, Buddhism, greek and chinese philosophy and maybe a smidgen Shinto. To be honest, I'm not really sure, as I just can't get a straight answer. And I'm not quite sure how their skills fit into it either. I mean, they have Harmony, which has absolutely no abilities that spread harmony to others, which some claim is their duty in the city. And so I'm left with a bread (the combat aspect which Bashara elaborated) with no-fat butter (the seemingly amorphous mass that is the Tahtetso philosophy.)

" Just a strange mishmash of Taosim, Buddhism, greek and chinese philosophy and maybe a smidgen Shinto."

aka, the Light!

So call for a guild meeting. Ask for letters to be sent to the Tahtetso leaders with (preferably well thought out and phrased) ideas for the future and purpose of the guild. Then have as many people from the Tahtetso sit down in one room with a few members of Celest's Court in a locked room for an hour or so to hash out the mess. Don't even worry about being IC. Talk like real people, apply OOC points of view, etc. Hence why I suggest a LOCKED room, in Celest or otherwise.

If you wanna solve this 'problem,' it's gonna take more than a few people working out-of-sync.

Well one of the things that I think makes is hard is how much less epic the monk story seems.

The original 3 guilds all focus on the planes. Bard have this tie into to the Voices of some Elders (as I understand it). Monks came from two shard races that fought each other for a while in some caves.

Harmony really is a bad skill in my opinion, both from a mechanical point of view (mostly set and forget, which makes it dull, this is also a result of the way kata works giving you very few chances to change chants to respond to situations as they develop fast enough) and from an RP point of view (not just the idea that the monk is constantly maintaining a chant, but also because it is all inward focused and thus you can not provide any utility to your org).

It is up to the players now to work with what they have and create something interesting. I just think it is a hard task with such thin foundations. The ninja's and emo's seem to have a slightly better time of it with the Stealth skill, but even there it does not seem nearly as rich with possibilities as the other guilds.

Dude, that fight lasted a LONG time. And it wasn't just a fight, the Illithoid were fighting back against their slavers for their freedom. That's only the basis for the plot of a few hundred very epic novels/movies.

Using the Celest guilds as that was the main topic if the first post.

Paladins - We guard and protect the Plane of Light
Celestines - We spread the teachings of the Plane of Light
Aqumancers - We draw power from the Plane of Water and are experts on general planer knowledge.
Cantors - We speak with the Voice of Rhapsody an Elder God
Tahtetso - These insects taught us how to kick better

Yes I am simplifing but I think the point is valid. The Tahtetso have no purpose in the world beyond the pure mechanics of their skills. I agree with the idea that they basically act as pseudo-paladins just with different abilities.

An epic fight might work for a book, but I think it fails as a source of a guilds power and purpose. That fight is basically over now, or at least permanently stuck in its current state. Beyond a general fighting against the Taint as represented by the Illithoid I do not see how it can be much of a basis for Tahtetso RP. The other Celest guilds (with perhaps the exception of bards) have a very clear purpose that ties in directly with the source of their power.

I think your idea of trying to sit down as players and work something out is a good one. I am not one for just whining about something and expecting it to get fixed. I just think the task is hindered by the very foundation of the guild.

I think similar issues exist for the Shofangi and Ninjakari, with the Ninjakari having an advantage just because of the nature of the Stealth skill.