This topic will cover topics of large concern. They should be considered seriously as they are mostly from other people, I am just willing to actually post it. You are welcome to bring up other things you feel need be mentioned. Just try to keep them orderly.

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+ I apologize in advance for content +
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==Divine==
We love our divine, and greatly enjoy most new content (no more guilds though... please no more guilds). I decided to place this first as Divine might stop reading after this. Divine are not familiar with Lusternias combat, politic systems, or methodology. This is not new, this is widely accepted which is why we have leaders of cities and have envoys to help with this. I have suggested envoys write a report on what their combat is like in a simple method so divine have reference to draw from. Some changes are not done as they are requested (such as the bard glamour changes) others might have been messed up in some way (such as the necromancy change where passive sleep was added to the idea, which made it get rejected..?). Divine need to try combat or really look into it, envoys need to just get everything that is problematic handled in a big group and then minor changes made afterward. Changes should be requirements not random desires (no aeon in hexes for instance) this way you have most major changes handled and only need to fine tweak what is problematic and correct the issues that have risen. I would love to sit down with an admin and talk to them 1 on 1 (IG would count) but they just dont seem to have the time, but I think Lusternia as a whole would be alot more happy if you stopped making new things until the old things are worked out. You dont add gears to a broken clock, you fix it first.

==Merians and Gorgogs==
By making this area enemy territory you have opened the grounds for removing most prime bashing places as good places to bash by allowing avechna to turn his gaze. Griefing gorgog and merian bashers is now ok and will result in griefing during bashing.

==Celest==
Currently Celest seems to get the favour for divine actions (theres another post on celestian divine actions so that isnt what I mean). Their rp is encouraged and rewarded to keep them allied to basically everyone. As the largest population in Lusternia they are too easily set up to slay Demon Lords, Avatars, and take Domoths. Should that be expected? Yes. Should they also be able to learn that attacking things repeatedly makes people not want to play? Yes. Make Demon Lords slayable at specific times or only once every RL month.

==Demigod warriors==
Being fixed but largely unslayable by non demigods due to damage and wounding levels. Truehealers are even worse than normal because of trueheal itself.

==Trueheal==
Should be moved to healing and a new skill that doesnt so strongly alter combat (5 people attack a demigod warrior for 30 seconds.. one trueheal undoes all that and he can have killed someone).

==Racial changes==
I will post my thoughts on each individual race in its proper thread. Some things need change from what there is now, additionally some changes will be needed for guilds that relied on being quick.

==Grief Mongers==
In keeping with Fains definition of a griefer (being someone who harasses you), I am calling them grief mongers. Which is anyone who decides to randomly attack people because he/she can, usually just to cause them problems, not for some sort of gain. Examples include jumping people on elemental planes who are far smaller than them (theres multiple people in this category), attacking to inquisition just for experience loss, raiding with eye sigils for the same purpose, slaying someone on prime and stealing corpse to force pray.

==Combat==
Changes in combat itself need to be made, so that no one guild is insanely powerful while others are intensely weak. Some are limited in insanity (druids are only crazy in demesne) other are just insane everywhere (Demigod warriors).

I am sure there are more things, and I urge everyone to post what they really want to see change but I feel if I continue to post to this thread for the moment I may state things that arent meant or say them wrong. Be well, I am off to work on the racial post.

I am greatly interested in hearing a divines thoughts on this. Would they sit and talk about lusternia with someone or a group? A summit on Lusternia itself perhaps? Do you agree divine arent greatly familiar with combat?

Honestly curious. Is this as much of an issue as a couple of celest griefers raiding Earth constantly purely for the sake of hunting lower powered individuals and non-combatants when they bash?

Ok, I want to address this post in sections, as Malarious did.

First of all, the Merian stuff. Thanks a lot, now I'll have to find a different useless creature to make food and clothing out of. Appreciate it, really.

Next, Celest Divine: Just knock it off, your behaviour is atrocious. and Magnagora divine, this might be the time to introduce an eye-for-an-eye policy, so that things will be balanced.

Demigods: I agree that they are tanky, but keep in mind: THEY'RE FREAKING DEMIGODS. Do you think Hercules had low HP? (yes I realise that was a stupid and pointless analogy, but I could care less)

Trueheal: I agree, move it to healing. It would make sense.

I'm skipping the racial changes section because I can post in the other thread.

Grief Mongers: There really isn't much that can be done about people like that, except hope they screw up really badly and get shrubbed.

Combat: This I would also prefer to talk about in its own thread

As a Celestine you are well aware what its like to have most of your offense rely on pact/bonds and deeppact/deepbonds. The fact Celest could throw 30 people and slay all demon lords is rather stupid. And yes attacking small people for the sake of attacking only wreaks of cowardess. I have always asked for essence before attacking anyone on an elemental plane, I see no reason to kill who I Dont need to. Why do people like and feel the need to raid all the damn time and try to keep epople down. The fact is the current mechanics encouage trying to cause grief for the other org, that isnt something thats entirely celests fault.. their rp rewards it.

Is every PvP kill to you "griefing" or is it only "griefing" if someone is bashing at the time? There are still many areas on prime that are protected. As Rika pointed out in another thread the entire UV tunnel system is great xp and fully protected.

I do not understand what you mean by "divine actions". The last two events (especially the first one) seemed to be specifically designed to cause conflict between celest and everyone else. You wish to see more events that force conflict by divine edict? Or you are asking for the divine in celest to drive more conflict? Why isn't it as much of the responsibility for others to make less enemies than it is for celest to have less "allies'?



The only death that is not "griefing" is one that results in no exp loss? I think you will see such "forced" praying reduced when the exp loss balance changes go into affect.

We've held summits before, but I don't know if now is a good time for one. We are focused on two things right now: races and monks. Until those issues are resolved, we don't really want to go off on tangents or add more distractions.

I certainly don't agree that the divine aren't familiar with combat. Some divine may be more familiar with combat than others, but, on the other hand, some players think they know more about combat than they actually do!

I can see this. We still have inquisition as a kill option but, I'm not the combat expert by any means.




Well, they are assholes. But the actual rational may be, that if you are at the top of the ladder you want to (1) protect your 'achievement' (2) protect yourself from being hunted and thus knock individuals on the lower rungs down further until they lose the desire to try to climb. Such is life.



Catarin rewards it yes. There was no bounty system before her and even members of Celest who didn't go along with bounty systems did so after she implemented it. Forren never did.

Nope. Just the random ones like.. oh I think I can kill so and so without much effort. Those kinds of things are just a bad practice. Also UV is under avechna other than the caves between places, the main bashing is protected by avechna which is why for awhile Forren himself wandered tunnels to attack people.

I mean like when Seren and Magnagora were all happy but then the Kephera event happened and it was aimed entirely at pushing seren and celest together and mag and glom together. I dont think it was too intended, but before that we didnt have to worry about Celenwilde raids anymore. I also agree forced praying will be reduced when the exp loss changes go in, least I hope so. Lich not being stripped by inqui and giving status would help loads with not forcing praying.


Summits usually result in good things too! Monks have had problems for awhile. I believe theres many places all over forums about perma balance loss, perma stun, perma grapple, and cheap tactics like stuns and prone with kicks to build damage/wounds while prone. Honestly wouldnt you also like to have a summit to hear what is wrong with Lusternia as a whole? I am sure monks would come up as well, including the exact issues. (Like monks that instead of windpipe lock can now slitlock AND can tendon).

I would think you would want to find out what we believe is the problem and hear some of our thoughts on it, not just what envoys think or the admins think. No offense meant.

I certainly don't agree that the divine aren't familiar with combat. Some divine may be more familiar with combat than others, but, on the other hand, some players think they know more about combat than they actually do!
Monks were a bad make and didnt seem to be finished correctly...
*the original monk damage formula was insane
*the karma boosting damage was evil
*the speed they could hit was ungodly.
*Speed guilds will have larger issues than monks, if a lobo/krokani monk can work then theres still an option over speed.. the same is far from being as true for thinkgs like guardians and wiccans (SD may be exempt).

I dont meant to stab or offend, but based on changes made it is assumed admin know little of combat. We might just be missing the wisdom in some ideas.

Thanks for replying Always good to see you are all paying attention to us lowly peasants.

Mal, monks are being questioned and addressed to the whole racial issues as well. Thought you knew that already. They had a monk summit a while ago also. I would let them get through the trials and tribulations of the possible rebalancing of monks to incorporate all monks with ruptures and to address the speed things, then wait a little while before holding another monk summit. That way some issues that are predominate right now, may not even exist anymore when the final changes to monks (aka ruptures, etc) are put into play.

As for some of the divine not knowing combat. I know for a fact that there are a few who do know alot about the combat system. Even Estarra knows enough about it by being a combatant in another IRE game as well. And yes she has a player here too. I don't know who or what org so don't bother asking, but she has stated it before. So although she might not be as intimate with combat as say Geb/Murphy/Sintor/Lyco/Daevos/Ixion/Shuyin/Kaervas/Thoros/Nejii etc, etc might be, she does have some knowledge of it here, and how it worked in other IREs

-Not raining on yer parade bro, just letting you know some of the things that might help you see these certain issues from a different perspective.

The only part of this post I agree with!

We have been actively saying that we are going to kill Demon Lords once they are no longer protected. Everyone in the city knew this, and they knew when to expect it. You cannot blame us for thinking and planning ahead and saying that we should be nerfed because we are too good at doing what our characters are meant to do.




I fail to understand why this is such a big issue. Until lich is changed, Trueheal is perfect. It should not be moved to healing, it should stay in Sacraments. Just because you believe it's unfair does not make it so. Serpent is more OP than trueheal, yet you are not complaining about that.

Demigods can simply divine fire. And if 5 people are attacking someone, some immunity is good. They are not going to suddenly turn their triggers off and die for you.

Mag currently has veil, lich, chaindrag, ruptures, immunity from death, and all these other little goodies. Celest has sacrifice and trueheal. I think it is time you moved on from this subject.


Obviously you only have Celestian players in mind when you call people 'griefers'. You do not know the meaning of griefing. Ethelon is a 'griefer', more than willing to veil into Celest and kill newbies.

Forcing to make someone pray is not too common. It was common in the last event because we needed you out of our way, but unless someone DESERVES it (ie attacking citizens without cause, raiding Celestia during 3am, etc), then yes, occasionally an inquisition will sneak in and they will die. There is really no issue here since it balances out a good majority of the time anyway.




We cannot 'throw' 30 people together. You are exaggerating. When I participated in the last slaying of DLs we had 18 people.

Eventru highly encourages Celest to bring down the Necromantate. Celest needs to do it because of what Mag did. Our RP complements our actions, our city rewards it, and just because we're 'good' characters doesn't mean we will spare people just because they are lying down.

So, pick yourself up. Instead of ranting on forums or trying to get Nihilist upgrades, why don't you fix your city and start working towards a common goal?

The entire issue with Mag being down is not a hard coded thing. It is a playerbase thing. I do not know HOW many times you have been told this, but it doesn't seem to be getting to you.

Well, as I've said elsewhere, I'm just getting back to Lusternia after a long (Loooong) break. And it seems even more stretched than ever before. I know I've never been strong enough to participate in an event, no matter who I was at the time, and that I simply can't, in my current situation, buy credits OOCly, but I enjoyed the atmosphere before...

You know, one side bashes the other, then there's the IRL day long pause, then the other side comes back to bash, and there were only a few big hitters that everyone knew the names of. (No matter the Org.) It's what was there when I first joined up, and recently, by forum whining, and what I've witnessed over the last two weeks, is an overparticipation by Divine in fights, not just one coming down to hang out at the Org. nexus or anything, just random zappings, maggoting and shrubbery. I'll admit that it seems there's more players, and a lot of them are good hearted nice people, and that the bad seeds just make maggoting seem common, but every insult seems to become a heavy handed strike returned.

Yes, Celest is dominating the board right now, and there's lots of tweats and fidgiting going on with the new classes (Ok, kinda old, but still) but it seems that it's become a game of "Why caaan't I beeaat theeemmmm uppp... fix eeeeetttt" and, "Blah, blah, blah, admins are bad, blah, blah, blah."

Why can't we all just settle back down to the old days, accept that the classes are in need of tweaking, (wether big or small) not every race is perfect, for if they were all balanced it'd be boring combat indeed, and that this is supposed to be a GAME about relaxing Role Playing, and having a good bit of fun without crushing anyones dreams.

Well, that's my spiel, and wether this belongs in the rants or not, I'm off to write a new description for myself.

Aison, honestly even many members of Celest wouldn't mind seeing TH go to the Healing skillset. This would open up the door for Sacraments to get a better offensive trans skill, helping out Paladins a bit more.

Now before you say it would suck for Celestines. Celestines would still have the choice of taking Healing and gaining TH. They would just have to make a decision on what they wanted, stronger offense or stronger defense.

And yes right now it is possible have it both ways (strong offense/defense) as a Celestine with something other than Healing. But you can look at it like what the changes are to Demigods (in that they get nerfed but they are still arent terrible)

Problem is that you would need to come up with a good Sacraments trans skill that can be agreed upon and put into the skillset right when TH is removed from the skillset. So Sacraments users are not at a horrible disadvantage during the waiting period.

Slightly off-topic question: is the Catacombs (prime) neutral, or is it an actualy territory? Just curious. I can't remember, hardly hunt there.

Nvm was thinking of Shallach

Catacombs = On Ethereal = Off prime.

Edit:

Oh, but if you mean Ur'Dead in Shallach, then what Bali said. And you can get enemied to Shallach.

The post was not an anti celest thread oddly enough, I dont care if Celests skills are all OP, I dont care if Celestians can insta ress anytime they wish. The point was that with how things are now the morale and thoughts of Magnagora are they just feel too pressed, too hopeless.. no one likes to stay in that.

Oops, meant ethereal. I keep on thinking it's on prime, for some reason...

Ok, since nothing was basically accomplished, maybe I can convince you here.

If you want to fix Mag stop waiting around for upgrades and updates. There is stuff you can do to fix it. Look at Celest. It overcame. Now it's your turn.

Fix your retarded power laws. Put a limit on lich since it takes, what, 20 power to put it up as a def (plus the cost of losing it)? That will conserve -a lot-. Put in some real power laws and don't let certain great houses just draw for the hell of it. Like, only allow CR4+ be allowed to lich.

Next, fix your city favoring system. Favor people who deserve it, no matter how small. Consider allowing CR6s have city creds as rewards, or perms to draw a little bit of extra power.

Those are just two examples of what you can do, here, now, without Divine help.