Anyone remember this topic by Shamarah?



So now glamours and monks etc have come into the equation how do you think this has changed? Still discount those heavily artied up types and consider each class choose it's best tertiary - Bards- glamours, Monks -acrobatics etc.

I would guess that all bards would be ranked a bit lower now that mugwump sucks.

I'm guessing you didn't bother to read the list, Ashai.

Anyways, while the general lumping is probably correct, sans bards, I took issue with that list the first time around. Some classes do better against some than others (Celestines are not so good against druids, which Shammy-poo had experience dealing with, nor are monks, but mage vs druid tilts towards the mage). Some classes benefit from the tradition created by a good fighter who knew how to teach (I also think that's the thread where I not-so-kindly taught the Hartstone who were complaining about how runes worked better for BT than Hartstone how to count to ten). There's just too much going on to break guilds up into such small groups.

If you want to add monks, you have to decide if you want to define them by PPK or by their main spec which they are supposed to use.

Well, in my mind, all of the bards would be moved up from where they are, as this is presumably pre-glamours or something. So, this taken into account, bards would then be lower on the list once more.

I do think that Shadowdancer is still at the top, undoubtedly. At least until choke gets beaten with nerf.

I suppose we should say using all available tactics? Or does that lead to who can whore a technique the most

Bingo dingo.

Move Cantors down a rank since Recessional and Crusadercanto got nerfed. Celestode is only good for newbies (I get 82 bonus damage to my minorsecond...).

If we are talking at the top level, ie omnitrans demigods with arties and all with briliant systems, i actually think SD would drop down that list even in choke...

A shadowdancer that stays in a brumetowered room and can cure half decently will never die to a druid, but will probably not kill the druid either, assuming they have trans magic, at least fabled discipline, and can cure.

If they use choke they'll be overloaded by the demesne, with no way to keep the druid from having them re-ally when pooka'd, and drink will be sacrificed if they want to use love potion at all, which negates the passive curing that gives him a small edge in choke. So shadowdancer vs. competent druid is difficult.

Shadowdancer vs. Mage is similar to druid combat I'd assume, except a Shadowdancer can't stop them from using their best skill if they are prepared. Bards aren't as big of a problem, because there are ways to work around them in choke.

Of course I'm not a brilliant fighter, Shamarah or Diamante probably handled things better than I know how too.

Shadowdancer vs. everything else I'd put the Shadowdancer on top.

I would move bards up a couple tiers, actually. With glamours they're even stronger defensively.

Do keep in mind with regards to the bards that that list was made pre-Glamours. All the bard guilds would be a few tiers higher on a new list, and certainly there are no classes in the Ninth Circle of Hell at the moment (no, not even Shofangi).

IMO Geo and Aqua should be swapped. Aqua healing is nice and all, but a passive 2k hit from a demesne is destructive.

I don't feel bards should be moved up at all. They're all pretty equal now- lower middle ranking. Move them up a single rank because of Glamours, sure. Either way, they're still at the bottom.

Drop Celestines a rank or two (drop the absolve aspect and only leave it inqui/soulless). Nihilists can move near ninth circle of hell. Wrack is largely inviable now, they also are largely soulless killers now.

Raise bards up a bit.

Harbingers are now one of the best bards imo with how their mana skills are set up, with manabarbs it would just be a slaughter.