There was a conversation on another thread that went on a tangent that I thought was interesting. So as not to lose it, I'll bring it up here on its own thread.

We have always maintained that all stats should mean something and not just be stuck on for aesthetics; therefore, size in Lusternia definitely has meaning--it matters for writhe time, stun recovery, and tumble speed. (It also affects a few other things but these are what raise concerns.) Though we've adjusted the impact of size once before, some people still think that size will always be an imbalancing factor because of their effect on writhing, stun and tumble.

So the question is do you feel that way as well? And, if so, what would you have size do in its place if it were not to impact writhe time, stun recovery, and tumble speed?

When I first started playing, I was told that size effects those things that you mentioned which sounds great. But I was also told that size would effect damage both giving and taking, now maybe who told me didn't know exactly what they were talking about and this isn't effected at all.

If that is the case, then feel free to ignore this post.

I think it would make sense to me though, especially when Demis can be size 1 and still hit hard as hell and take damage better then most, which I see as unbalancing combat wise with things that require people to not writhe out of to work. With the whole Balance/EQ change just put in, all anyone as to do is be a really small size to really screw over anyone using crucifix.

I know in Aetolia, combat was finally balanced race wise by making 99s and 100s killable on a regular basis in 1v1 combat by compitent lower level fighters, and it's actually made combat there better over all and lessened the complaints. Now here unless Titans and Demis are only supposed to be balanced around themselves ( like it was in Aetolia ) I feel it's unbalanced to give size the advantage of a faster writhing speed with out much to counterbalance it, either lower STR and/or Increase damage taken in my opinion.

I'm sorry I bring up aetolia a lot, it's just what I'm used to and Jeremy really helped out the red-headed stepchild of IRE by balancing combat between regular races and the transcended races and it makes sense to do so to me, but then again I'm sorta new to Lusty and maybe I'm just not understanding how all the game mechanics work

EDIT: with the increase in damage and/or STR lowering it would be if you became smaller then your races standard Size Stat.

I have never heard of size affecting damage beyond certain skills like athletics charging.

This might be a huge failing point that I bring to Lusternia, especially when I'm testing skills and try to figure out what influences their factors, but I tend to take Lusternia's feedback information and try to apply my own kind of logic to reverse engineer the Admins logic in the coding. Sometimes it just doesn't work, and I end up pulling my hair out over some things. Anyway, I digress...

If the only difference between you and someone else is that you're larger in size, then when you both attack the same target, logically you should be dealing more damage because of your increased size. Again, logically, it should take you longer to do things that require agility and deftness than it does for your smaller companion.

I'd say that it is highly unfair that Demigods and Titans can change their size at whim in order to exploit the advantages of being larger or smaller than their target while still enjoying all the regular benefits. Granted, the rest of us can change size if we have Enlarge and Diminish enchantments, but those consume equilibrium, and if I need to writhe out of a druid's vines NOW, I don't have time to shrink myself.

That's just my two generic gold sovereigns.

Capped writhe (both high and low), capped stun, and a set tumble time are probably all needed. While size should play some role, currently it plays perhaps too much of one.

If changing size as a demi wasn't a slow, gradual process that consumed a fair bit of eq and mana, I'd agree. Otherwise, it's fine.

The original point is that if you're a size 1 Aslaran dealing 2k combos standing next to a size 12 Aslaran dealing 2k combos, it doesn't make things very fair. I made the argument about changing size, yes, but Estarra's question is more to the point of: should your current size have an effect on dmg dealt/taken, and that's a resounding yes from me.


P.S.: Keep the influence that size has over stun, writhe, tumble, charge, and whateverelse. But I agree with Desitrus; have a general standard for these things, but let your size have a decently influencing factor in order to keep up with the idea that stats are important to gameplay

Only if it's in comparison to the size of your original race, as the races already have their own strengths and the like to reflect size.

... and if you do that, what's to stop me from buffing myself to size 18 for the +12 size damage/wounding bonus?

Balance-wise, I'm not sure that's a great idea.

Good point, I forgot to mention that. And what's stopping you? You've been a Shadowlord for as long as I (and several other people) can remember, Xen. I don't think you're about to start trading you're speed for dmg/wounding now

You didn't mention a thing about larger size making you slower (in the post I quoted at least), and smaller size making you faster.

That said, I've been a Shadowlord mostly for roleplay. They weren't all that amazing for a while, but DMP fixed that (in my opinion, at least). With Demigod, that really changed, though it's pulled back a fair bit now.

If size also mods speed... well, that's a pretty significant change to how it works.

Right now very small sizes have:

Very fast writhe time
good tumble time

with the disadvantage of:

longer stun time

And you are also easier to summon out of/into danger.

Whereas very large sizes have:

improved stun resistance (and at the highest echelon, stun immunity)
improved ability to barge/charge/tackle/etc.

with the disadvantages of:

Tumble is so slow it is utterly useless
You writhe so slow that you can't escape from two different forms of entanglement

And you are very, very difficult to summon out of/into danger.

With the current set up, a very small size will always trump a very large size. Small size stun can be nasty, but it is no where near as bad as being unable to utilize tumble and being utterly screwed over by something as simple as a web enchantment.

Small sizes need more cons going against them. Especially at sizes less than four. Even though sizes greater than 22 have total stun immunity, they are so utterly debilitated by their disadvantages that its not really conceivable to play at that size. Or, optionally, make the cons of big sizes not so steep.

I don't think there should be more than a 15% gap in stun time or writhe time between size 1 and 25

But maybe I can live with a 25% gap, so maybe a size 1 should be 1/4 faster than a size 25, and be stunned for 1/4 longer amount of time, and be 1/4 easier to summon.

Each size increment should add 1% to those respective bonuses.

On the other hand, I think it is ridiculous that there are size 1 demigods that "tower over you" But thats for the admin to decide to do about it from a rp perspective.

They changed this a while back. Certain size changes (and below) a titan, etc.'s ql to 'Jim the Titan is here'.

Don't forget dodging. Someone small and fast should be a harder target to hit, and someone large and slow should be just the opposite.

Also, HP affected by size. Someone size 1 has 7k+ health? Uh... wow. That's like an indestructible gnat. The increased dodging (perhaps becoming a passive ability for those who don't have it, but never as effective as someone who does have it) should counter that... but only against abilities that can be dodged. Those at larger sizes get increased HP and no dodging or hindered dodging, if they've learned the ability. Average size will be considered human size.

I changed my mind after thinking about it more on my drive home.

25% change in rates, but logramithic on both ends of the scale. Not sure how to describe it so I'll just type out a sample

lets pretend 4 seconds is he longest that awrithe should ever take.

size time to writhe
1 - 5 3 seconds
6-10 3.25 seconds
11 - 15 3.5 seconds
16- 20 3.75 secod
21- 25 4 seconds

And then the same for every other difference.

Highly disagree, especially after the DMP-inspired size tweaks. The stun modifier matters more than it did back in the day, tumble has caps, the writhe modifier was made to matter less, all while more stun sources were added to the mix. In the beginning, yes, small size was always better, but nowadays, middling does best, with some small preference for the small racial extremes over the large ones.

Demi/Titans size changing consumes a lot of eq and it will only change size one point at a time. It is not a simple thing to just change it to the size you desire. Oh, and it also uses up a lot of mana and willpower.

Bah, Sojiro responded first.

I made a suggestion that it would affect direct attack accuracy. So a faeling swinging at the head of an igasho is more likely to fail and hit somewhere lower, while the same works for the igasho, and he is more likely to hit the head instead of the leg

Who is this most likely to affect the most?

OH RIGHT. Warriors. Who are already screwed in terms of accuracy.

I would add solely that capped stun should be both high and low as well. Other than that I would agree with everything ya said.

I don't think a size 25 stunning a size 4 person should be the same stun time as a size 4 stunning a size 25.

If that was put into effect. aka longest time is say 4 seconds for a 25 to stun a 4 and shortest time would end up being 1 second or something like that for a 4 stunning a 4. Also I do not think a size 4 should even get the chance at having a stun time on a size 25.... or it might be a fraction of a second, since logically I don't see how an ant can stun a giraffe by slamming into it or with any type of stunning weapon.