Until people complain that you're nerfing the most expensive artifact in the game. That's more or less what happened when I made suggestions similar to these a few months back, before the cubix issue was pushed under the rug and ignored again.

I don't really see it being viable outside of Prime though, which is where the majority of the fighting I see exists. Unless I'm just not thinking hard enough which is usually the case.


Yes, people will complain but they're practically abusing the artifacts just to be pains in the butt...

I used the same argument - doesn't change the fact that it was still ignored. And oddly enough, it came up under almost the exact same circumstances too (inability to raid ethereal as compared to cosmic/elemental).

If people really want to see this in, they'd best get to chiming in with their opinions, even if their reasoning seems patently obvious. Else it won't get touched again.

The cubix is a lot more viable simply because it goes to places off prime. Unlike most other IREs there are more than one plane here.

I don't think the cubix will really or should really end up nerfed. Unless they come up with easier ways to get off of planes. Right now, Nil/Celestia/Water/Earth enemies have to tess which normally can't happen if you are being bounced around by whatever things does that (can't remember if it is ripple or flux). You could pilot a ship there, which on Earth/Water (Earth especially) is difficult to get back to your ship since Mts are a maze, yet there is still a chance to get there. Or you cubix.

Now as it stands now, cubix's can be stopped really easily. And I can't see how much easier you need it to be. If a person is dizzy/stunned/confused/entangled and I think a handful of other things they cannot even use their cubix. They have to cure it first.

The problem I guess lies in the whole, hit one mob, run before anybody gets to the plane. Although it is a lame thing to do alot. It is done only by a handful of people. I think Celest's biggest gripe is against Ethelon with it, and Magnagora's is with Dysolis.

If either org wanted to stop it, they could simply go up to Limbo and kill them there if they want (which has been done countless times), or they could hide 1 room away from the cubix entrance on Celestia/Nil and move in as soon as the kicker enters. Mages can turn on a demesne, and you also if I remember right cannot cubix very quickly in a demesne, especially if the demesne is knocking you down.

It seems to me that people just want it so you have more ways to hinder a 2000 credit artifact, than to do one of the numerous things that already hinder it. And I am quite (hopefully) positive that Lusternia will not end up making the most expensive artifact in the game a thing that people will end up trading in because the playerbase couldn't handle using one of the vast number of other ways to stop a cubix.

I would suggest changing the cubix to have diminishing returns when used from enemy territory.

Something like

First time - 0 delay
Second time - 1 second delay
Third time - 4 second delay
Fourth time - 8 second delay

And make the counter reset every RL hour or something.

So you would still be able to use your cubix normally to save your life but it would get progressively harder to use it to constantly hit and run. I would be fine if an org had to buy an orb to cause this affect as well.

Stopping someone from cubixing is not easy and the complaint on all sides is that it's far too easy to go in, attack a denizen and leave. Cubixing around with the intent to annoy and avoiding defenders at all costs is quite irritating. Also, there is no guarantee that you'll stick confusion/dizziness long enough to stop a person from cubixing away and web...? Okay. I suppose all the people who've managed to escape via cubix are simply dealing with inept individuals.

Well, I have been gone for many months, I assumed it was just like Wings in Achaea, as long as you can speak and (I guess now) not stunned you can simply call 'Duanathar' and you're gone. Can't be indoors either.

Makes a little more sense now, and I agree it shouldn't be nerfed to uselessness but something should change with it... Maybe (if it isn't like this already) take a few seconds for it to actually work? I dunno.

Enthralled kind of got to it before me, but I think it should be a few second delay regardless, and it shouldn't stack.

I like that idea!

No need. There have been constant complaints about the cubix hit and runs. You're free to disagree, but I think it's a valid. Especially with all the free cubixes everywhere.

Edit: I also hope we fix veil. I think that's an area that needs focus. Creating balance. What's the counter to veil? Demigod seek? And chaindrag? Is there a counter or equally useful ability in Harmony? I actually suggested an ability for harmony monks that'd allow them to use vibrations that would keep friendly allies rooted in place. Because still, nothing has been done about chaindrag, even though there have been numerous complaints about it.

Only risk in influencing is a lag spike at the moment. Which is a real issue sometimes!! If the risk is increased please reduce the exp penalty from losing an influencing battle as well.

It would be interesting to see some mobs give influencing afflictions maybe.

@Influencing crits -- Meh. I like the fact influencing is distinct from bashing so I would rather have another mechanism than crits in influencing. Leave crits for bashers.

@Malicia: ALways trying to squeeze in the last word as usual it seems. But anyways, Veil is not a big deal, All it does is make you unscryable. That just means, if someone is killing a mob on say Water or Celestia, that you go up there and look for them.

I cannot remember off hand if scent bypasses it, (I don't think it does) or if scan works sometimes against Veil. I don't see why scan shouldn't work though, since it does not give you a room name, just a who is in the area. Although I still see no reason that Veil is too powerful. If you compare Veil to other 10p Trans Skills, like that Psymet Psuedo TH, TH, Lich, Serpent, etc. I think you will see it is not as supergreat as you want to think. (well maybe not you because you never seem to see anything you or your city has as balanced)

Chaindrag, like Celina said is easily deterred by Shielding. If people would shield, they would not get dragged. That along with it not being an instant thing, gives others time to even walk into the room the chaindragger is in and possibly slay the dragger before the victim ever even leaves the originating room (unless somewhere down the line they made dragging instantaneous now)



Problem is there are no true Ecology envoys. Sure there are druid envoys, but it would be rare that the envoy is also an ecologist as well, since most druids aren't real hip on ecology. So getting the envoy to burn his/her slot to try and help ecology (while in thought would seem normal) may/may not be so apt to happen. Especially if they are trying to work out other kinks in druidry or even their spec skill.

If you gave druid envoys for maybe 2 - 3 months one extra "ecology" only slot, you might see more things come up in discussion that are ecology based.

I'm not trying to have the last word. I'm trying to make a point. How about you respond in a mature fashion? I'm not trying to end the conversation with my few points. You're free to carry on, as I'm really curious. I just couldn't see how you could ignore all the complaints about cubix by saying it's easy to stop someone who is purposely trying to be a dweeb and avoiding defenders. Secondly, this isn't about trueheal. It's been downgraded a few times and still, a lot of people would love to see it changed. It's hard coming up with something that would make sense and get approval from the head honchos. Talk about what you know, please.

Last thing, veil is not fine. You wouldn't know if you haven't had it used against you. We have/had certain people using a cubix to run around a plane and could not be scried. Scan wasn't picking them up either. Then the moment you're able to run down a demigod to seek, they'll cubix away. That sort of abusive, annoying behavior should stop. I remember at the very beginning when Estarra said that they'd never create an artifact like veil (the arti in Achaea) which works the same way. Then three and a half years later, they create an ability that does the same thing.

And god. I can't believe the fact that people are still saying chaindrag is fine, because others can obviously continuously shield the entire time while on offense with monks spamming it from opposite directions in order to split up a group. I know one thing - if it were a Celestian guild that had it, the complaints would be sky-high. There have also been other Mag players who have stated that chaindrag needs to be fixed or a way to 100% prevent it. Like mass in Achaea, against serpent yank.

Mass please!

I said that because I knew even way back then that I wanted that as a trans skill for stealth (yes, it was planned that far back). Unlike artifacts, it has limitations of time and power which I think is balanced (unlike the artifact in question). (Interestingly enough, players in the monk committee argued with me that it was too weak for a trans skill).

Nejii/Dag/some other Mod....

Can you please toss in Malicia's posts and any others from the last page (Lusternia's Focus) in that other thread here.


I think Veil is fine, and like Estarra said in the other thread, alot of us thought it was a pretty weak skill. On paper it just didn't seem to have the zing of a trans skill. (And yes there were some non Stealth users who thought it wasn't a great skill too)

But when it came to fruition. It turned out being alot nicer than expected.

And honestly, That skill in planar that hides you from the orgscrolls for killing mobs, etc. I originally thought it would be like Veil is now. Hell I still think it should hide people like Veil does. Although, it would be dumb to do it now since putting an equivilant in planar would nullify the stealth version.

As it stands, all veil does is hide you. Big whoop. It is nice to have (especially on prime) when you are stalking through enemy territory, yes. I think the skill all in all is nice. But I don't see where you need to think it is so OP or anything.

I don't see a special skill meant to stop and TH from working, or one to nullify Serpent, etc. So I would consider it lucky to even have it so demi's can see the veiled people.

Although I would agree that sometimes people will use it for stupid things, like this kicking crap. But a few people do not a nerf make.

All in all stealth has only a few truly useful skills in it. Veil is one of them. And probably within a year or so, both Harmony and Stealth will have more time to absorb in and envoys can make changes to better/worsen them.

Not to clone other IRE, but they balanced a similar skill artifact by:

Veil artifact users can scry/who/see other veil artifact users.

Obfuscate/infiltrate in Predation both drop on aggressive action. It allows you to remain immune to scry/who until you commit an aggressive action. This allows the skill to stay high in sneaking value, while not so high in doing-whatever-you-want-with-scry-immunity. The other balancing factor is that it drains endurance like CRAZY on Imp, insofar that keeping it up for 30m-1hr is a total end drain.

Again, I want to reiterate that I believe the limitations on the stealth version in terms of time limits and power cost make this skill balanced. I do not foresee us changing it. I don't think comparing it to how other realms may deal with similar (but different) powers is constructive.

Is this something that's being -planned- or a current thing? I've yet to see this...in all honesty

It's called Powermask.

It exists, but no one uses it since it's a ridiculous waste of 10p.

Still feel ethereal should meldable. One other thing to note of is that there was an event where the planes were crashing together and now there are also rifts to the cosmic planes from the elemental planes. That's in addition to cubix entrances and exits. Communes have a single reliable entrance that is there every time. Aetherdock.



I think veil is very strong. But it just makes you unfindable really. If you're whole purpose is to go in and kill angels and get out you'll win, but so what? Now in the case of the Chaos purple hamster event, this ability is entirely too strong and needs a limitation such as once per Lusternian day. Outside of these specific cases, it's strong, but won't make or break balance.

And I'm not going against what you're saying here, but I just have a problem with your outlook implied by the phrase This is not how we look at balance. We cannot look at opposite skills and look for equal abilities or counters. Otherwise we'd be the same guilds. The focus should be on overall organizational abilities. And when you look at that, it's not air that Magnagora has another beckon type ability than Celest. When you go further into perspective, it's not fair that Celest has beckon and rad over the commune's rad.