Hazar2008-05-29 21:16:43
Discuss.
Silvanus2008-05-29 21:17:40
Meld or at least be able ot Taint it, not be able to meld but be able to change terrain it.
Krellan2008-05-30 04:06:47
Double quoting myself. Adding more below
Previously the only way to a cosmic plane was through the opposing nexus. So technically that's not even an option and a cubix was the only entrance. Now there is a rift to the cosmic planes and back to the water planes. There is still -no- guaranteed method of getting inside ethereal besides aetherspace.
QUOTE(Krellan @ May 28 2008, 11:04 PM) 516372
Okay I'm quoting myself cause I feel this is important enough to reiterate. I'll expound on a few points and add suggestions.
Here's my list of things, I admit some of these may not be a problem but I am very frustrated by them.
This is a problem I feel is big, but you said is sort of being addressed. The constructs that allow for -free- nexus powers is absurd. This really needs to be changed and I've given some changes in the past.
Suggestion 1: Change this power to allow all citizens of the organization in which this construct is raised to conglutinate if they die on the plane that the construct is supposed to affect.
Suggestion 2: Change this power to half the cost of using nexus discretionary powers on the respective plane.
The main problem is that constructs are -not- supposed to be permanent, but they are in actuality. So the powers need to be adjusted or the design changed (which I believe you said is being worked on) Still, this power should get changed regardless.
This also exacerbates the problem which is my next topic: Ethereal Serenwilde and Ethereal Glomdoring.
Both of these are unmeldable by outsiders, Avatars are stronger than Demon Lords/Supernals, and there is free nexus discretionary powers. Glomdoring also has choke. All of this combines to limit conflict in these areas to simply killing daughters/ladies and defenders. There's no rhyme or reason to go kill an avatar because at this point it's like a suicide mission. You don't gain power for your own nexus, you merely cause the other side to lose power. There's no fae to save/convert like there used to be. At the moment, I'm out of fresh ideas for this other than making it meldable for outsiders. Druids especially are very limited while raiding these areas.
There is little reason for commune vs commune conflict. There's also little reason for cities to fight against the communes. I'll try and list one problem at a time, but they generally affect each other:
First, let's look at Ethereal Glomdoring and the aspects. It's been how long since bard guards were introduced? Yet, still, the -only- entrance to the aspects of Crow are above the Ravenwood NEXUS The one room where guards can be. So to do so, you need to get past 30-40 guards, a tuned totem, a bard guard stunning you on entrance and a bard guard knocking you out of any other elevation besides ground elevation on entrance.
Now suppose you actually get in, you also have to get out the same way except you start out off balance when trying to escape. Or you pay 700 credits for a prism or 2000 for a cubix. These are the only guaranteed ways provided Glomdoring manages a very reasonable upkeep of monolith and flame sigils. This is only commune vs commune by the way. I suppose cities could disenchant the sigils an escape, but why would they even want to enter?
Just entering Glomdoring is hard enough. To safely enter and exit, you need an aethership. Teleporting out is easily stopped by monolith sigils which cannot be disenchanted by communes and distortion from shrines. Cubixes are a safe exit and are more common now, but they do not provide an entrance as they do for both the elemental and cosmic planes.
Now, since I focused on defenses and difficulty of Ethereal combat earlier and in the quote, I want to turn to incentive.
The incentive is very weak for Serenwilde to raid Glomdoring or vice versa. Previously we had the faethorn conflict where it actually had -meaning- to kill off Ladies of Mother Moon or Daughters of Mother Night. Now there is none. There's no power loss per death as there is on the cosmic planes when angels and demons die. Fae cannot be taken or converted in any way. Even slaying the Avatars will do nothing beneficial. Causing the other organization to lose 1000 power is laughable.
We need some kind of conflict quest like the supernals/demon lords and the star and necromantate. Killing Crow or White Hart is near impossible because it can basically only be done on Full and New Moons also requiring you to be in the opposing Prime territory.
I'll list all possible thoughts I've had on this. They are not in a preferred order nor am I supportive of all of these:
1) Some version of the faethorn conflict quest should be brought back. Even just bringing back the part where we can give fae silver honeycakes and Glomdoring can give fae something else to free them from each other's side would be a nice start.
2) Limbo exit to each respective ethereal
3) Have power drained from the respective nexus for every daughter/lady killed. Equivalent to angels and demons killed.
4) Have some beneficial use for slaying daughters/ladies. A way to convert them to essence. Better yet, a way to convert them into their opposite! Example: turning a Daughter (night) into a Lady (moon) or converting a Lady (moon) into a Daughter (night)
5) Some reason to want to slay the Avatars other than the want to kill them. Currently all is done but offering them. This one actually applies for the cities as well.
-One idea for this is to allow each city to turn the corpse into a specific Demon Lord or Supernal. Doing so will either enslave (DL) or temporarily convert (Supernal) said Avatar. This will add 1000 power to that respective nexus. An altered and properly depicted avatar will float somewhere on whatever Cosmic plane. Citizens of that city may GREET the enslaved/converted avatar for an item. This item will allow them to do a specific influencing attack on fae in faethorn. Celestians will be able to use the Seduction attacks on fae and Magnagorans will use the paranoia attacks. Having said item while successfully influencing the fae will allow you to successfully capture the fae into your inventory and turn it into a respective angel or demon.
-An idea for the communes would be that slaying an Avatar and turning the corpse in to a certain Avatar will cause the opposite side to lose ladies/daughters.
-Alternatively or additionally it could cause the side turning in the avatar to gain a certain amount of daughters/Ladies (so turning in Lhiannon to Selene means more Ladies for Seren)
-Needs to be an incentive for having Ladies and daughters though. This could be an increased power gain for returning fae to that specific avatar. This would also limit where avatars could be handed in. Selene to Glumki, Albion to Lhiannon, Luna to Gwyllgi and vice versa to each.
Example: well, I forget the specific Lady names, but they vary based on which avatar (Selene, Albion, Luna) they are from. Let's say Albion has an increase in her ladies alive. This would increase the amount of power gained for your nexus when you influence a fae in faethorn an return it to Albion. Only specific fae can be turned into her just as only specific ones can be turned into Luna, Selene and all other avatars.
I actually forgot any further ideas I had fleshing out number 5 right there because that came to me on the spot as I'm writing this now. So i'll stop here, wait for comments and add more as necessary.
Here's my list of things, I admit some of these may not be a problem but I am very frustrated by them.
This is a problem I feel is big, but you said is sort of being addressed. The constructs that allow for -free- nexus powers is absurd. This really needs to be changed and I've given some changes in the past.
Suggestion 1: Change this power to allow all citizens of the organization in which this construct is raised to conglutinate if they die on the plane that the construct is supposed to affect.
Suggestion 2: Change this power to half the cost of using nexus discretionary powers on the respective plane.
The main problem is that constructs are -not- supposed to be permanent, but they are in actuality. So the powers need to be adjusted or the design changed (which I believe you said is being worked on) Still, this power should get changed regardless.
This also exacerbates the problem which is my next topic: Ethereal Serenwilde and Ethereal Glomdoring.
Both of these are unmeldable by outsiders, Avatars are stronger than Demon Lords/Supernals, and there is free nexus discretionary powers. Glomdoring also has choke. All of this combines to limit conflict in these areas to simply killing daughters/ladies and defenders. There's no rhyme or reason to go kill an avatar because at this point it's like a suicide mission. You don't gain power for your own nexus, you merely cause the other side to lose power. There's no fae to save/convert like there used to be. At the moment, I'm out of fresh ideas for this other than making it meldable for outsiders. Druids especially are very limited while raiding these areas.
There is little reason for commune vs commune conflict. There's also little reason for cities to fight against the communes. I'll try and list one problem at a time, but they generally affect each other:
First, let's look at Ethereal Glomdoring and the aspects. It's been how long since bard guards were introduced? Yet, still, the -only- entrance to the aspects of Crow are above the Ravenwood NEXUS The one room where guards can be. So to do so, you need to get past 30-40 guards, a tuned totem, a bard guard stunning you on entrance and a bard guard knocking you out of any other elevation besides ground elevation on entrance.
Now suppose you actually get in, you also have to get out the same way except you start out off balance when trying to escape. Or you pay 700 credits for a prism or 2000 for a cubix. These are the only guaranteed ways provided Glomdoring manages a very reasonable upkeep of monolith and flame sigils. This is only commune vs commune by the way. I suppose cities could disenchant the sigils an escape, but why would they even want to enter?
Just entering Glomdoring is hard enough. To safely enter and exit, you need an aethership. Teleporting out is easily stopped by monolith sigils which cannot be disenchanted by communes and distortion from shrines. Cubixes are a safe exit and are more common now, but they do not provide an entrance as they do for both the elemental and cosmic planes.
Now, since I focused on defenses and difficulty of Ethereal combat earlier and in the quote, I want to turn to incentive.
The incentive is very weak for Serenwilde to raid Glomdoring or vice versa. Previously we had the faethorn conflict where it actually had -meaning- to kill off Ladies of Mother Moon or Daughters of Mother Night. Now there is none. There's no power loss per death as there is on the cosmic planes when angels and demons die. Fae cannot be taken or converted in any way. Even slaying the Avatars will do nothing beneficial. Causing the other organization to lose 1000 power is laughable.
We need some kind of conflict quest like the supernals/demon lords and the star and necromantate. Killing Crow or White Hart is near impossible because it can basically only be done on Full and New Moons also requiring you to be in the opposing Prime territory.
I'll list all possible thoughts I've had on this. They are not in a preferred order nor am I supportive of all of these:
1) Some version of the faethorn conflict quest should be brought back. Even just bringing back the part where we can give fae silver honeycakes and Glomdoring can give fae something else to free them from each other's side would be a nice start.
2) Limbo exit to each respective ethereal
3) Have power drained from the respective nexus for every daughter/lady killed. Equivalent to angels and demons killed.
4) Have some beneficial use for slaying daughters/ladies. A way to convert them to essence. Better yet, a way to convert them into their opposite! Example: turning a Daughter (night) into a Lady (moon) or converting a Lady (moon) into a Daughter (night)
5) Some reason to want to slay the Avatars other than the want to kill them. Currently all is done but offering them. This one actually applies for the cities as well.
-One idea for this is to allow each city to turn the corpse into a specific Demon Lord or Supernal. Doing so will either enslave (DL) or temporarily convert (Supernal) said Avatar. This will add 1000 power to that respective nexus. An altered and properly depicted avatar will float somewhere on whatever Cosmic plane. Citizens of that city may GREET the enslaved/converted avatar for an item. This item will allow them to do a specific influencing attack on fae in faethorn. Celestians will be able to use the Seduction attacks on fae and Magnagorans will use the paranoia attacks. Having said item while successfully influencing the fae will allow you to successfully capture the fae into your inventory and turn it into a respective angel or demon.
-An idea for the communes would be that slaying an Avatar and turning the corpse in to a certain Avatar will cause the opposite side to lose ladies/daughters.
-Alternatively or additionally it could cause the side turning in the avatar to gain a certain amount of daughters/Ladies (so turning in Lhiannon to Selene means more Ladies for Seren)
-Needs to be an incentive for having Ladies and daughters though. This could be an increased power gain for returning fae to that specific avatar. This would also limit where avatars could be handed in. Selene to Glumki, Albion to Lhiannon, Luna to Gwyllgi and vice versa to each.
Example: well, I forget the specific Lady names, but they vary based on which avatar (Selene, Albion, Luna) they are from. Let's say Albion has an increase in her ladies alive. This would increase the amount of power gained for your nexus when you influence a fae in faethorn an return it to Albion. Only specific fae can be turned into her just as only specific ones can be turned into Luna, Selene and all other avatars.
I actually forgot any further ideas I had fleshing out number 5 right there because that came to me on the spot as I'm writing this now. So i'll stop here, wait for comments and add more as necessary.
Previously the only way to a cosmic plane was through the opposing nexus. So technically that's not even an option and a cubix was the only entrance. Now there is a rift to the cosmic planes and back to the water planes. There is still -no- guaranteed method of getting inside ethereal besides aetherspace.