Not probably very apropos, however I'm lacking, and without anywhere else to turn - let's see if anyone here is able to.

I've been wanting to get a tattoo (gasp!) for quite a long time, however I've been struggling on what exactly. I've finally settled on a variation of a quote by Ruth Mae Brown, 'An army of lovers will never fall.'

However, getting that tattooed in english would be fairly lame - and I actually was originally intending to get the greek name for the Sacred Band of Thebes, however it's far too long to get properly tattooed anywhere without requiring a huge length of flesh. And I want something simple and short.

Therefore, I want it written in classical greek - however, my classical greek is pretty crappy, and I've not had to apply even the most rudimentary knowledge that I have for several years.

So if anyone is skilled enough to give an apt translation (yes, I'm being sticky about it being classical greek vs contemporary greek script!), I would be much, much obliged, and love you forever.

Since I'm sure the forums will tweek over forum languages, you can e-mail it to me - eventru@lusternia.com

I would really, really love anyone who could do this for me.

While it's very possible that I was taught classical Greek with a modern Greek script and I'm entirely mistaken, or maybe misunderstanding the request, isn't the only difference between the two scripts the amount of markup around the letters? You can swipe it from Wikipedia and just remove the accents.

Turns out the straightforward Greek word 'to fall' was also used as 'to fall in battle', which is quite convenient for the army trope. There should really be a sort-of acute accent over the alphas in stratos and erastone, and over the iota in peseitai.

Anyway, I reckon "An army of lovers will never fall" looks something like this:

You know, Fain, when We're alone in Havens, you're going to get some pre-Elder Wars loving....


<3

And yes, Xavius, I believe you're fairly correct. Unfortunately, given it's a tattoo, it's not something easily corrected. It's not like my ankle has a spellcheck system or anything.

We need logs. And pics.




Of the tattoo!

I probably will post some - it's going to be my first, though I expect to get more in the relative future. I'm most likely going to get it the last week of this month or the first week of next month - I'm on my feet all day for work, and since I'm getting it on my ankle, I've been forewarned that it's best I take a few days off work so as not to hurt myself (that and I'm getting it just beneath the sock-line, so I can hide it appropriately for said employment - which I'm told will be a painful experience while its still fresh).

Anyways. Definitely will have to post a picture or three once I get it done! I'm planning on doing two bands of words, one atop the other, so they can be large enough to be read without difficulty and not so cramped.

Okay, get some nivea creme and rub it on the tattoo the first few days. And wrap it in some plastic foil. This way it heals best.

That's all I can say, since the answer has already been given. I totally would've beaten Fain. If I hadn't spend the last two days in bars. <.< Cough.

Your answer at least confirms Fain's! Which just goes to reassure me. Thanks guys!

Nivea creme. Got it.

Would anyone happen to know off hand the military unit which was comprised of male lovers (seeing as women weren't allowed in the military during it's time period). I can't recall, but it was in ancient times. Their logic was that lovers will fight to the death if the other is in danger, and will never retreat and show fear in front of their lover.

Yes, I'm also aware of what happened to them.

However, the tattoo sounds nice. I hope it doesn't bother you too much for your job, and that it turns out great.



Edit: Unless I happen to be blind and miss "Sacred band of Thebes" which I will look up soon to verify that's what I'm thinking of.

Not too sure about it, but is it Solduros? I remember being told something along those lines, but I could be mistaken.

It was indeed the Sacred Band of Thebes - originally they were couples spread throughout the Theban army, as it was hoped their valour would bolster the troops. Eventually they were brought together into a single unit, the Sacred Band of Thebes, 150 couples (not all were lovers - a 'couple' would also consist of two very close male friends, such as it was with the 'couple' that lead the group originally).

The Sacred Band never lost a battle, and were instrumental in the retaking of Thebes. Ironically, it was the freedom they earned for their people that most likely weakened the Greeks as a whole just enough to allow Phillip of Macedonia to take Greece, and eventually lead to Alexander the Great's spread of Hellanism across the known world.

During the battle against Philip II of Macedonia, a large portion of the Theban army threw down their weapons and fled - the Sacred Band, however, stood their ground. Almost the entire group fought to the death, utterly surrounded by the invading force. Plutarch records that they all died where they fought, however it's generally accepted that fourty-six men surrendered (twenty-three couples, the way it was told to me in a lecture class) after their companions were slain.

Once the realization of who he just slew settled in, Philip II looked out at his men and said, "Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly." He then demanded the bodies be treated with respect, and were entombed where they died. Thirty, thirty eight years later - 300BC, the town of Thebes erected a large stone lion over their tomb, in honour of their defeat.

The tomb was excavated in 1890, and the statue was restored in the 20th century. 254 skeletons were found beneath, which is what lead to the belief that Plutarch embellished the death of all three hundred men.

The unit was founded by Gorgidas in 378 BC, and fell at the Battle of Chaeronea in...338 BC, I believe. Their military prowess was unmatched, it was only the superior weapons of the Macedonians that ended their streak of victories.

I had to wiki it because I can't remember this from memory, however the quote that Plutarch claims birthed the idea of a unit of male lovers came from Plato's Symposium:

"And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?"

Thus my tattoo. Could you tell I'm a greek history buff?

Eventru, you creepy, but, that is pretty awesome

To expound, the Spartans were notorious for the practice as well. The coupling of older, experienced men with younger, less experienced men to form 'couples' was believed to be a great way to foster companionship - the logic being, you would fight harder and with more honor (ie, not run away) if the person fighting beside you was your lover, or someone you deeply cherished.

As to if it was a sexual relationship or not, that's always going to be up for debate. Some say yes, some say no - it was actually against Spartan law to have sex with your male partner, however it was also illegal to sleep with your wife (at least, to leave and visit them - and thus encouraging them to sneak out, teaching them subterfuge, etcetera).

Yet the Athenians always joked about male-male coitus, saying that one who had sex in such a manner was 'doing it the lacedaemon way' - refering to the Spartans. Plato believed pederastic relationships were great and powerful things, but should never cross from a personal, mentor-protege relationship into something physical, believing it filthy and defiling, totally inappropriate behaviour for good men.

And, as an aside, yes the Sacred Band was compiled of 150 pederastic couples.

You, sir, are a true history buff. Yay Eventru