Pretty simple and self-explaining.

Personally, my opinion is to remove above trans learning. It seems to raise too many issues for too little benefit. In other words to keep this tiny benefit lots of coding time and effort has to be invested to rebalance other parts of the game around it (ie traps disarming, illusion dispelling(?)).

I think mentors / proteges have several incentives in the new system already. If there needs to be another, perhaps something else can be found.

Also, because Charune mentioned in the other thread that envoys should adress it: You didn't mean by using their envoy slot for it right? Because... that's never going to happen. Just making sure.

Where's tha poll?

It's finally there! Woot.

Voting time.

Voted no. My reasons are on the top of page eight in the other thread.

I voted no, simply because if I do return full time, which I might...

I'm obsessed with being at my best, with being at my peak. I have to have everything necessary to make sure I am at my absolute best. I'm sorry but I DO NOT want to have to train novices for thousands of lessons in each of my skills to be at my absolute peak. This is something I absolutely do not want to have to do. I don't ordinarily take proteges, only in special cases, but now if I don't, I will always feel I'm at a disadvantage, no matter how slight, it will irk me to no end, simply because I will know there is something more I could do.

This is terrible, I'm a perfectionist, and it will drive me absolutely mad, I can already feel it, if I'm coming back, I will have to steal every novice simply to fulfill my obsession.

I would rather give up my ability to mentor entirely, for the option to spend a few of my own lessons to cap all my skills on my own.

Voted yes.

One, I think everyone's overreacting to this. Way, way over.

Two, the bonus is not meant to be huge, nor is it going to affect skills in such a way as to break the game. So I trained ten people to trans, and I hit half a percent more often than some other guy. Woo? I need a truefavour for my tracking/illusions to beat the guy who spends half his life teaching these skills. Oh em eff gee broken?

Three, the people that would actually gain an edge from any little tiny boost aren't the type to go around training tons of proteges, or to even have proteges for the most part.

Four, those that defy reason three are freaks, which exist in all things, and are bound to exploit every tiny little edge they can anyway...might as well vote to remove buffs and spec races.

Five, all the benefits of being a mentor are no longer semi-permanent. You don't do good as a mentor, the novice will eventually read the helps on it and see they can get a new mentor. Both he and the new mentor can still enjoy the benefits of a mentor/protege relationship. If that one doesn't work, try again. If you aren't being a mentor, and the protege cares at all, you won't be able to abuse it. If you and a protege are intentionally gaming the system...well, you would have done it with anything else you found to be abusable, what the actually subject of your douchebaggery is is hardly important.

I like the idea, though I like Acrune's idea about getting lessons instead a little bit more, even if it's a little weird. (I taught you Kata and that totally got me to trans Environment! Woo!)

p.s. I don't have any proteges. I hardly ever take them because I'm shy about bringing stuff like that up, and my characters tend to be all "Oh well X or Y are excellent tutors! I suck because I'm me, so try them."

Edit: Or completely crazy.

I'd voted yes because my line of thinking falls pretty much exactly along the lines of Moiraine.

Unless you're a Tracker or understand traps well, you're not going to understand the reasoning behind wanting this bonus removed. ONE LESSON in Environment or Tracking above Transcendent can make a big difference.

Sadly proteges can't actually readily change mentors, past a certain age/level/whatever it can't be done. Quite bothersome.

...Do you actually know -any- of those things for certain?

I voted no, because,

One, I think everyone is not overreacting. It would take a while for this to become a problem, but it eventually would, because people -would- game the system, and just calling them "freaks" doesn't change the fact that they are over powered and ruining the game for everyone else.

Two, the bonus, while not meant to be huge, would eventually effect skills in such a way as to break the game. Because it is ridiculous you would need a -truefavour- to dispel someone's illusions because they have -permanently- raised their skills beyond transcendent, and that is broken.

Three, some people who actively participate in combat and are good at it would exploit this. You do not need to raise the skill "way" above transcendent for it to break the game. Just slightly above would affect things like tracking and illusions.

Four, this is nothing like a buff, spec, or favour. Favours aren't permanent, and buffs and specs are readily available to anyone who wants them.

Five, just because a person is going to game the system doesn't mean their going to be a total jerk to their protege. They might not be the greatest mentor, but they'll at least do enough to keep the protege.

Six, having to actually rewrite and work on code to make the changes needed to keep these things fair is ridiculous for so unneeded of a change.

Seven, I really hate people who make the suggestion "Do it now, fix it when it breaks", no matter the circumstances.

Eight, the idea of giving a small amount of lessons is much better in every regard.

Artifact idea. Automatically caps all your trans skills at the true cap. Thanks.

It could even take away your ability to mentor.

I simply don't want to mentor. Now I would have too in order to cap everything, rather than conveniently buying credits.

Yes. Read the Divines' words on the subject on the other thread.


And amen.

I wonder, though, if perhaps we could try another direction. Instead of a direct boost to the mentor's skills in whatever fashion, what about developing a small little invisible skillset. Each guild gets one that plugs into their main skillset, and as they teach proteges they work up this little invisible track and at certain points nifty new skills appear in their AB list.

Why is this different? The skills would be totally flavor. Let them have real effects if necessary, even be able to kill in some guilds, but if so they would be far, far inferior to existing skills to the point that trying to kill someone with one of these mentor skills would be like trying to take Desitrus down with newbiepunch and a wielded spoon. Cantors could bind custom songs to people with limited effects (100 endurance healed every couple minutes for the next few hours "The barely audible voice of Moiraine swells about you in song, bolstering your resolve."), Tahtetso could assist someone in meditation to enhance mana and willpower regain similarly, Celestines could summon specific angelic types and mob-control them for various RP things, etc etc.

Each guild would get four or five things, all marginally useful except in RP situations. Really cool RP skills would be a nice thing to have, I'm sure most people would agree. Especially those that are really into helping novices.

Fakeedit: You could take the Tahtetso Deathtouch ability and make it one of these, and give us something usable in its place.

Now THAT...is a good idea. Except, perhaps, for the invisibility. Why not make it so we can see what we're getting? Or, better yet, just go back to giving lessons for mentoring, and give people the option to invest them in this mini-skillset. Maybe offer extra-lesson incentives (IC-ly, the skill is "easier to learn" and so learning 15 lessons in it is equivalent to learning 20, and there are, say...300 lessons worth of skills in it).
If it's poorly worded I apologize. My mind's not really in my head right now.

That sounds like it would require way too much effort than deserves to be put into this.

Yeah, I actually agree with that, too, now that you mention it. ._.

My question was rhetorical, since I followed it up with how you were wrong on every point.

And they aren't 'divine' on the forums, they're admin, and they can be wrong. Just because they said something doesn't mean it's right, like any other human.

Voted for removal. The other things added are more than enough incentive. I agree with many of the above reasons posted for why this is just a bad idea.

My, aren't we in a mood.

I don't share your opinion. That doesn't make mine wrong, and yes, thinking that this is all going to create a world where only the super-mentors can rule is an opinion. As far as I'm concerned, a pretty spacey one.

Oh, and excuse me for using a common descriptor for a certain group of people that you don't agree with. So sorry.

Edit: And if it isn't clear to you, when I pointed you over to the other thread where the ADMIN were commenting, it was concerning those things I mentioned that were NOT opinions, being mainly the part about the effect of meta-trans skill effects being very minimal as well as the changes to tracking(they said illusions were already a little random, allowing for lower skill dispelling, if I remember right).

Totally true, but it would still be nice to have. I can dream, dang it.