This occured to me recently and I thought it might be worth pursuing if considered.

In Ethereal Glomdoring and Serenwilde Daughters are killed quite often (read every day most times and sometimes multiple times a day), so the only ones which really survive are those which are stationed at the Avatars since people don't think the risk of going into those rooms is worthwhile.

There is a problem with a scarcity of these daughters to make them a threat in the numbers they were intended and its rarely worth surging only 3-6 daughters against a group of 3+ raiders, even if forces are typically bigger.

I was wondering what people thought about allowing communes, or even security or Wiccan guilds (least preferred option) to control the movement of the daughters or at least set the number that are stationed at each of the avatars. This could allow us to rebuild numbers without them picked off one at a time or in small groups and help them to regain their original purpose, which has long since been lost since they offer no protection at all in such small numbers.

Please post your thoughts and be reasonable, as I was trying to be.

They're not exactly less protection than demons/angels, although you do have to work a lot harder to maintain them obviously.

I see the problem being less that they move, but more that they are ineffective for the amount of work put in to get them. You can work for hours before getting another Lady/Daughter, but all of them combined take only seconds to kill by even a single person.

That is a problem too, but one less likely to be solved, so I was more hoping for a mechanism to preserve what we have.

so essentially, you want to "store" them at an avatar or the nexus until you feel you have enough to let them survive on their own?


I don't see a problem with that. May also want to request they don't follow souls/ghosts anymore.

Given that the Avatars are already stronger than the S/DLs, then maybe it would better if they were stored at the Nexus instead of the Avatars so that the disparity is not increased.

You need ten same type of fae to summon one Daughter/Lady. There are only 2-3 fae of the same type for each respawn of Ethereal, and they respawn from 1-2 hours. So, for a single Daughter/Lady, you need to clean out Faethorn for around 4 hours, and a single Daughter/Lady can die in a minute or so.

So...

And then what happens when you decide never to stop 'storing' them? When we raid Avatars we'll need to fight 2 Avatars and 10 surged Ladies/Daughters?

No thanks.

Of course, we can do it by making angels/demons a little like daughters/ladies. Each Supernal or DL gets his/her personal entourage of 2 archangels/archdemons, but all other angels/demons start out as cherubs/imps. When they are empowered, they 'level up' until they reach archdemon/archangel.

This would reflect the difficulty in keeping angels/demons somewhat

Well right now the problem is we have no daughters to surge, I'm not suggesting 10, but even 5 at the avatars would help. As it is Ethereal is a one big bashing zone, there could also be an imposed limit and the daughters wander if a certain point is reached to avoid certain room congregations. Just an idea though.

We get mauled by 2 Avatars with minimal Daughters and Ladies and no shrines powers, no meld, and no liveforest as is. I fail to see why this is necessary.

The problem is it gets a little meh when you see the effort of hours of influencing/camping out Faethorn die in a minute. I, therefore, suggest that angels and demons should also need a little input. At least they still respawn!

EDIT: Now that I think about it, doing the above would just spread the bad feelings across the board. But oh well!

EDIT2: Or, you can make spawning Daughters a little bit easier that they require 10 fae to summon (not 10 same type of fae). They can be weakened down a notch, too.

There's already a limit to how many Ladies/Daughters can be summoned at a time. There can be 10 summoned per Avatar, plus the 6 permanent ones, making 36 total. Can't go over that.

I see nothing wrong with this.

I think you're pretty much wasting your time here, unfortunately. It's actually a fairly recent change that was made to -prevent- the daughters/ladies from bunching up around the Avatars. This is all part of the whole scheme to make Ethereal forests not be fortresses and such. My impression is that they want these to be to Ethereal what demons/angels are to Cosmic...which is to say, mostly fodder. As far as goes the difficulty of recovering these guardians compared to the ease in which they're killed...this is not a new complaint, and it's one that the admin aren't going to address, or at least that's the impression I was left with.

Incidentally, it's not even 10 of one type of fae, it can take more than this, I'm fairly sure there're elements of voodoo involved.

Ethereal certainly aren't fortresses any more, but maybe they went too far, because they went from impregnable to indefensible. What I don't know, however, is if the cosmic planes were always this indefensible, and so we really can't complain. Or if they just went too far.

My guess is that they had to make Ethereal indefensible in order to make it feasible to attack Avatars, which is fine, but never addressed the huge disparity between how hard it is to get more Ladies/Daughters and how long it takes angels and demons to reset on their own, which was previously justified by the fortress-like nature of the ethereal planes.

Indeed, liveforest truly illustrates how indefensible it is.... Clearly you've never defended a cosmic plane, or raided one with access to a cubix.

Furthermore, the daughters/ladies and angels/demons do little when it comes to the actual slaying of avatars/DL/Sups in the grand scheme of things. More to the point, the ones summoned are the real threat. Anyone with half a clue about the planes can easily bypass the roaming ones for instant access to the half formed.

Edit: for clarity.

Welll... there was that time a few days ago when we got raided on both planes for like, 24 hours straight... I'd say we got pretty damn fortress like during that incident.

I think I've been on cosmic planes about three times in my life. Never raided one nor defended one. I wouldn't be in the least surprised to learn that one demigod with a greater pentagram and a monolith sigil could empty it every day. Probably no one would care that much though, since it'll fill itself back up an hour later.

Of course, no one really has to care about the Ladies either, despite the fact that they won't come back without a ridiculous amount of effort, because they themselves don't really make much of a difference. They defend the Avatars a little, but not so much that someone seriously attacking the Avatars could be stopped by the Ladies, especially since you can easily wipe the Ladies out first; and otherwise, they really don't do much. Probably the same could be said of the angels and demons: they're defended more for RP than tactical purposes.

It would probably be a bad idea to make ethereal more defensible, or Ladies more powerful. But reducing how much work it is to get them is probably justified.

And now, my idea: If you kill a Seren lady during the waxing or full moon, she will reset the same way other denizens do, about a day later. But if you kill her during the waning or new moon, she is gone and has to be restored as we do now through the influencing of the fae. Same thing for Glomdoring's daughters, but with the moon phases reversed.

To Lendren: Champions of Moon and Night are invulnerable during the appropriate phases of the moon, and their strength wax and wane appropriately.