Idea: Have the Greater Songs that bards can summon block Greater Pentagram from being used. This would allow defenders to reach the point where guards are, while retaining greaterpentagram for key targets such as Avatars, Supernals, Zenobia, etc.

This would solve the problem of 100% of guards falling before defenders can get there, while keeping this needed tool for taking down supermobs.

Interesting idea!

Sorry, but there is no way that 100% of guards are falling within one minute considering that there are no critical attacks on them. Plus there is still the fact that Seren summons a god awful clump of 30+ in one room which means most of our defenders pretty much die attacking them.

If anything, I'd like to see diminishing returns on guards because it is very excessive. While Serenwilde may be in negative net power, they're still in no danger of ever losing these guards or being unable to afford them.

EDIT: Not that I don't think bard songs blocking it is a bad idea, but I'd prefer it if Druid/Mage guards got it. We're technically on the lower end of the food chain right now as no one really cares about our guards.

Semi-related: what do druid/mage guards do?

Guards in smaller clumps are not only ineffective, they're just targets. I'm all for lesser numbers of guards, so long as each one is then appropriately multiplied in strength, maintaining some semblance of usefulness.

Don't worry your head too much, though. We'll just remove the obstacles, as they're really only speed bumps to the real troublemakers.

Masses of guards at an entrance to a village is nothing but a waste of power. Anyone wanting to say... kill the denizens of the village in order to add to their conquest pool... can bypass the guards and do so. You are protecting nothing and wasting a lot, and anyone who thinks masses of guards at a village entrance does protect the village needs their head examined. Get rid of your guards then you don't need to worry about them being killed.


Edit:: Alternatively let me influence them all day long. >.>

Actually, while we're on the topic of guard clumps being pinatas,

Would someone in the know explain how the stacking effect of the harbinger song shield things work? I understand the effects of several harbingers using this stacks the shielding effect, and aids the process of burning through guard clumps meaningfully, but I, in all honestly, don't know how it works, what is required, or what the limitations are.

room entangle

ala liveforest or just a one-shot effect?

afaik, you just need to be undeff and allied for it to work. it's like an auto-shield every x seconds. not sure about stacking.

They entangle mostly, I've only seen the stun a very few amount of times. The stun from Bard songs is more effective. They tick like Liveforest, yes. Although I don't think they tick as often as Liveforest.

By the by, I disagree with the notion that guards are pinatas. The only reason that people are currently able to actually get past them to raid right now is solely because of Divinefire which may or may not be running off the same mechanic as it is now with the current changes that the admins are working on. If a change does go through, an organization will have the ability to completely lock down an entire village.

I think you mean the Lesser Song. The Greater Song has the less useful effect (stun); the Lesser Song has the elevation effect that seems more in line with this.

Is there some reason that one person can't greatpent the instant another person's greatpent falls? If not, a group of three or four people (or just two demigods) could greatpent effectively indefinitely, so the one-minute limitation is no limit at all.

Wisp the GreatPenter. Problem solved.

Or Rad them. No excuse for any of the Hartstone not to be Runists now with Skillflex.

Other than not everyone has 300 extra credits just sitting around in order to skillflex and learn another skillset.

Stop whining and trying to end conflict. If you haven't noticed, a lot of the prominent fighters left the game because the admins always take the side of the cry-babies and soften stuff up.

It's not much of a conflict when our fighters can't get to your fighters, dear.

It requires wyrden overlay in the location, and is a passive shield with the regular song tic, for everyone that is allied to the bard and can hear. They can stack with multiple bards (so fires more frequently), but captivate audience negates the stacking if done by a Harbinger, or the effect entirely if done by any other bard (they only get effects from that one bard's song, then). It's helpful, but not ridiculously op for guard clumps...guards break shields, so if you become the target of 10 or 15 or however many, the first breaks the shield and the next 14 still hit you. It's most useful for things which hit a lot harder than guards... the reason you need the huge groups of guards is that they don't hit that hard, so one missed hit is a help, but I do not feel it makes a huge impact on the ability to kill guards in general.

Zarquan hits the nail on the head: the point is to foster actual conflict, instead of this mayonnaise-flavored nonsense we get in its place, that's entirely built around making sure you never actually face an enemy, ever, which is the opposite of conflict.

But that's the thing, you know that if this goes through there will be no conflict, since you will still have ridiculous clumps of guards and there will just be no point.

Multitudes of ways to pull people out of Greatpent or even get into Greatpent

Wiccans, Bards, Druids all have guild skills they can use, and a few other ways to pull them out or get in that everyone can access


I know this because we've dealt with Narsrim dropping Pent to kill Daughters and we've discovered plenty of methods to get in