Pesukaru2010-12-30 08:16:35
The following is a majority of an email I sent to Estarra last night. She responded and basically said that I should approach the envoys about it, or post on the forums. Thus, here I am. I'm not going to go the "buff me or else get out of my thread" route. I want feedback, ideas, comments, questions, and so on. I'm not an envoy, I never will be if I have my say.
Since the addition of bards to Lusternia, we've all had our issues. Each specialization has started out, and with some tweaking, come together into somewhat of a finely tuned cacophony (see what I did there?). All except Starhymn. As you probably know, I play Pesukaru, who is the Cantors GM. Starhymn has long been thought of as the weakest bardic spec due to a lack of synergy and focus. A random hodgepodge of skills with no clear, constant way to slay our foes aside from the ones known to all bards. First off, I'll put up the basic information I have on the other specs.
Note to the reader: Some of this information on other bard guilds may not be correct. Let me know if it's wrong, please.
=============================================
Cacophony - Random curing of afflictions for allies, + 3 Chr Viscanti, 10 dmp to physical/cold, writhing is slower/adds bleeding, full regen of h/m/e, plague afflictions to enemies, causes damage to h/m/e of enemies based on # of afflictions, chance of plague afflictions not being cured, (faster balance for allies, slower balance for enemies), dominate/command enemy, modified form of carcer, targetted stanza is shackled + damage.
Enemies take massive damage from plague afflictions and actually die from passives from time to time. Along with a passive chance to keep enemies in the room, Necroscream is commonly known as one of the better specs.
5 lower stanza, 5 mid stanza, 6 high stanzas.
+
Harbinger - better chance of poison proc, shroud allies/unshroud enemies, lowers ego, faster writhing for allies, slower herb balance on enemies, one stanza knocks off balance, Faster bleeding, high bleeding also paralyses, Bleeding on allies = damage to enemies, double mana loss (which ties into clotting as well), randomly shield allies on Wyrd. Targetted gives stun, bleeding and a mental affliction.
As most of Glomdoring's instakills rely on either mana loss or bleeding or both to slay, this bardic spec synergizes very, very well with the entire commune.
My information on the number of stanzas is off, but I'm somewhat sure this matches Necroscream.
+
Spiritsingers - Summon spirits periodically, spiritwatch, regen ego, (faster herb balance for allies, lower herb balance for enemies),stanza makes enemies
lose balance, chance of singer dodging blows (along with passive in acrobatics), give weakness/paralyze/confusion, +10 dmp with spirits (attack and defense), Faster regen based on season or gives cold damage, chance of damage and carcer if an enemy tries to leave, faster/better potion balance. Targeted can add entangle, empress, cold damage, transfix/mental affliction, freeze/damage/stun for spirit cost.
Not as strong as the other two. Spiritsingers are more defensive but equally useful.
5 low, 5 mid, 6 high, plus a low skill (spiritguard)
================================
Now, let's compare Cantors and Starhymn.
Processional A beautiful hymn that regenerates willpower and mana.
Regenerates Endurance, Willpower, Health, and Mana. Not crucial, but nice.
LoveCanticle Blessed be Raziela, a hymn of love and healing.
Faster sip balance. Not bad. Would be nice if we could combine this with MercifulSanctus, see below.
HopesCarol Thanks be Shakiniel, a hymn of protection.
Added DMP to elemental sources like fire, elec, ice. I've issued and asked, and the person who responded had no clue what amount of DMP this provides. I'm sure it's low, and I'm hoping it scales to skill in Starhymn. Hoping you can clear this up for us.
StarLight The light of the stars can disturb your foes.
When it tics, has a chance to give sunallergy, vomiting, or sensitivity. Masked behind a single line. This is a semi-recent change, and one well-liked.
MercifulSanctus Honours to Japhiel, a hymn of balanced justice.
Slower potion balance for enemies. Meh.
CrusaderCanto Glory to Methrenton, a hymn of the holy flame.
As this stanza is raised, you slowly gain up to three levels of "flame". On your next subsequent hit, you expel this flame for a small amount of added damage. This resets the flame level. Somewhat worthless. Nice flavour, that's about it.
LightCantata Praise be Elohora, a hymn of the blinding light.
Causes blind+kneel in enemies. Though this is often the mainstay of Cantor battle, the blindness prevents Glamours skills from hitting our foes. We've tried to get this fixed for years, and nothing has been done.
CelestOde Rousing song that inspires the citizens of Celest.
Obviously not a big deal here. Next!
AngelSong Angels who hear will increase their speed.
This is nice, and is matched with a Necroscream skill as well as skills for the fae. However, the fact is it's only useful in defense of Celestia and places besides Nil. During raids to Nil where angels can't go but are really needed the most, this stanza is worthless.
PrincessFarewell The last song of Princess Marilynth holds great power.
Our targetted. For three power, this skill hits with stun, blackout, and aeon. No real problems here. This is often the only way we can get a kill, is a masked Requiem under the blackout from this. It's entirely rare, because the blackout doesn't stop people from spamming earwort in order to keep out of deathsong.
JustChorale Your music brings penance from Holy Celestia.
Ah, yes. Every tic, a random Supernal has a line which causes one affliction. Easily cured, not masked in the least. I forget the exact afflictions, but I believe it is peace(Raziela), hypochondria(Shakaniel), paralyzed(Elohora), hallucinations(Japhiel), sensitivity(Methrenton).
Recessional When the hymn winds down, it is best not to disturb it.
Recessional causes the person to randomly not sip or eat an herb when they try to. For instance, healing, or a sparkleberry, or whatever. The chance is 33% at last check. The problem with this is that not only do they not lose sip/herb balance and can just spam the command again, but that even if they did lose the sip, it wouldn't make a difference unless it failed several times in a row. The chances of this happening are obviously low. 1/9 chance of missing twice in a row, 1/27 or a bit less than 4% chance of it happening thrice.
EverSea Infuse the waters with the music of the stars.
Keeps enemies from raising shields, but only in water. So this is useless in 5/6 of demesnes, not counting the areas around the Basin and the planes. It's seriously easy to just eat an earwort, shield, and keep shielding if needed while you heal.
Requiem Lead those unto death with the requiem for the dead.
No real issue with this.
5 Low, 4 mid, 5 high. this is a loss of 1 mid stanza and 1 high stanza from the other specs.
============================================
As Cantors, we have absolutely no synergy, nothing that makes us special or gives us a focus. The only way to slay an enemy is the usual aurics/discordantchord that is entirely too easy to keep out of, or blanknote/perfectfifth/princessfarewell to strip quicksilver/princessfarewell to aeon/requiem, which is power intensive and rarely works.
Now, Cantors have been waiting for a special report for our skillset for years. Not IC years. IRL years. Every time I've messaged Sior about this, he's replied that our envoy is handling it. When I ask our envoy, they always say that Sior is handling it, and they don't know anything. I recently asked Sior in a forum message about the Starhymn report, and he told me it would be -started- after the racial revamp. The whole time I've been in the guild as Champion, GM or otherwise, I've constantly said that our skills are being looked at, and I've now been proven a lier by this. Therefore, I'm coming to all of you to see what you think could be worked on. Here in a bit, I'll post the projects we have in the Cantors with our ideas for direction. Feel free to pick your brains or comment at your leisure.
Since the addition of bards to Lusternia, we've all had our issues. Each specialization has started out, and with some tweaking, come together into somewhat of a finely tuned cacophony (see what I did there?). All except Starhymn. As you probably know, I play Pesukaru, who is the Cantors GM. Starhymn has long been thought of as the weakest bardic spec due to a lack of synergy and focus. A random hodgepodge of skills with no clear, constant way to slay our foes aside from the ones known to all bards. First off, I'll put up the basic information I have on the other specs.
Note to the reader: Some of this information on other bard guilds may not be correct. Let me know if it's wrong, please.
=============================================
Cacophony - Random curing of afflictions for allies, + 3 Chr Viscanti, 10 dmp to physical/cold, writhing is slower/adds bleeding, full regen of h/m/e, plague afflictions to enemies, causes damage to h/m/e of enemies based on # of afflictions, chance of plague afflictions not being cured, (faster balance for allies, slower balance for enemies), dominate/command enemy, modified form of carcer, targetted stanza is shackled + damage.
Enemies take massive damage from plague afflictions and actually die from passives from time to time. Along with a passive chance to keep enemies in the room, Necroscream is commonly known as one of the better specs.
5 lower stanza, 5 mid stanza, 6 high stanzas.
+
Harbinger - better chance of poison proc, shroud allies/unshroud enemies, lowers ego, faster writhing for allies, slower herb balance on enemies, one stanza knocks off balance, Faster bleeding, high bleeding also paralyses, Bleeding on allies = damage to enemies, double mana loss (which ties into clotting as well), randomly shield allies on Wyrd. Targetted gives stun, bleeding and a mental affliction.
As most of Glomdoring's instakills rely on either mana loss or bleeding or both to slay, this bardic spec synergizes very, very well with the entire commune.
My information on the number of stanzas is off, but I'm somewhat sure this matches Necroscream.
+
Spiritsingers - Summon spirits periodically, spiritwatch, regen ego, (faster herb balance for allies, lower herb balance for enemies),stanza makes enemies
lose balance, chance of singer dodging blows (along with passive in acrobatics), give weakness/paralyze/confusion, +10 dmp with spirits (attack and defense), Faster regen based on season or gives cold damage, chance of damage and carcer if an enemy tries to leave, faster/better potion balance. Targeted can add entangle, empress, cold damage, transfix/mental affliction, freeze/damage/stun for spirit cost.
Not as strong as the other two. Spiritsingers are more defensive but equally useful.
5 low, 5 mid, 6 high, plus a low skill (spiritguard)
================================
Now, let's compare Cantors and Starhymn.
Processional A beautiful hymn that regenerates willpower and mana.
Regenerates Endurance, Willpower, Health, and Mana. Not crucial, but nice.
LoveCanticle Blessed be Raziela, a hymn of love and healing.
Faster sip balance. Not bad. Would be nice if we could combine this with MercifulSanctus, see below.
HopesCarol Thanks be Shakiniel, a hymn of protection.
Added DMP to elemental sources like fire, elec, ice. I've issued and asked, and the person who responded had no clue what amount of DMP this provides. I'm sure it's low, and I'm hoping it scales to skill in Starhymn. Hoping you can clear this up for us.
StarLight The light of the stars can disturb your foes.
When it tics, has a chance to give sunallergy, vomiting, or sensitivity. Masked behind a single line. This is a semi-recent change, and one well-liked.
MercifulSanctus Honours to Japhiel, a hymn of balanced justice.
Slower potion balance for enemies. Meh.
CrusaderCanto Glory to Methrenton, a hymn of the holy flame.
As this stanza is raised, you slowly gain up to three levels of "flame". On your next subsequent hit, you expel this flame for a small amount of added damage. This resets the flame level. Somewhat worthless. Nice flavour, that's about it.
LightCantata Praise be Elohora, a hymn of the blinding light.
Causes blind+kneel in enemies. Though this is often the mainstay of Cantor battle, the blindness prevents Glamours skills from hitting our foes. We've tried to get this fixed for years, and nothing has been done.
CelestOde Rousing song that inspires the citizens of Celest.
Obviously not a big deal here. Next!
AngelSong Angels who hear will increase their speed.
This is nice, and is matched with a Necroscream skill as well as skills for the fae. However, the fact is it's only useful in defense of Celestia and places besides Nil. During raids to Nil where angels can't go but are really needed the most, this stanza is worthless.
PrincessFarewell The last song of Princess Marilynth holds great power.
Our targetted. For three power, this skill hits with stun, blackout, and aeon. No real problems here. This is often the only way we can get a kill, is a masked Requiem under the blackout from this. It's entirely rare, because the blackout doesn't stop people from spamming earwort in order to keep out of deathsong.
JustChorale Your music brings penance from Holy Celestia.
Ah, yes. Every tic, a random Supernal has a line which causes one affliction. Easily cured, not masked in the least. I forget the exact afflictions, but I believe it is peace(Raziela), hypochondria(Shakaniel), paralyzed(Elohora), hallucinations(Japhiel), sensitivity(Methrenton).
Recessional When the hymn winds down, it is best not to disturb it.
Recessional causes the person to randomly not sip or eat an herb when they try to. For instance, healing, or a sparkleberry, or whatever. The chance is 33% at last check. The problem with this is that not only do they not lose sip/herb balance and can just spam the command again, but that even if they did lose the sip, it wouldn't make a difference unless it failed several times in a row. The chances of this happening are obviously low. 1/9 chance of missing twice in a row, 1/27 or a bit less than 4% chance of it happening thrice.
EverSea Infuse the waters with the music of the stars.
Keeps enemies from raising shields, but only in water. So this is useless in 5/6 of demesnes, not counting the areas around the Basin and the planes. It's seriously easy to just eat an earwort, shield, and keep shielding if needed while you heal.
Requiem Lead those unto death with the requiem for the dead.
No real issue with this.
5 Low, 4 mid, 5 high. this is a loss of 1 mid stanza and 1 high stanza from the other specs.
============================================
As Cantors, we have absolutely no synergy, nothing that makes us special or gives us a focus. The only way to slay an enemy is the usual aurics/discordantchord that is entirely too easy to keep out of, or blanknote/perfectfifth/princessfarewell to strip quicksilver/princessfarewell to aeon/requiem, which is power intensive and rarely works.
Now, Cantors have been waiting for a special report for our skillset for years. Not IC years. IRL years. Every time I've messaged Sior about this, he's replied that our envoy is handling it. When I ask our envoy, they always say that Sior is handling it, and they don't know anything. I recently asked Sior in a forum message about the Starhymn report, and he told me it would be -started- after the racial revamp. The whole time I've been in the guild as Champion, GM or otherwise, I've constantly said that our skills are being looked at, and I've now been proven a lier by this. Therefore, I'm coming to all of you to see what you think could be worked on. Here in a bit, I'll post the projects we have in the Cantors with our ideas for direction. Feel free to pick your brains or comment at your leisure.
Eventru2010-12-30 08:22:56
Sena's been harassing envoys pretty regularly about commenting on a Starhymn report on the Envoy wiki - so, worry not, it's in the works. And we're all quite eager to see what comes of it.
Pesukaru2010-12-30 08:26:35
Which is cool, and I understand this is entirely the wrong time of year to bother you guys. But when Sior tells me point blank that "It hasn't even been started, but it will be after the racial revamp" , but the entire time we've been told "it's in the works, it's coming soon", it leads me to believe I might need to nudge a bit.
Xiel2010-12-30 09:11:25
Just as an initial comment: Senna asking for comments still leads me to some concern. After numerous proddings of Jayden, I'm fair certain he's stated a number of times that the report was already made and e-mailed to Sior ages ago. If Senna is still asking for comments, that means they either re-did it or they never submitted the thing still. That should really, really get clarified for your sake.
Otherwise, dig up the actual report and toss it up here. Unless I'm forgetting something, I think the Starhymn report is trying to concentrate on the cold focus (to synergize with the Aquas better), but I don't know if they kept it still. It's on the envoy wiki, so just poke Senna to bring it up if you want a stepping stone to start from.
Unless you're looking to start from scratch anyway, and for that, I'll poke about tomorrow. -sway-
Edit: Oh, and to clarify - when I mention confirm whether it's been submitted, I'm not talking about a report that's been tossed up onto the wiki. The report actually has to be e-mailed in, else it just stagnates there.
Otherwise, dig up the actual report and toss it up here. Unless I'm forgetting something, I think the Starhymn report is trying to concentrate on the cold focus (to synergize with the Aquas better), but I don't know if they kept it still. It's on the envoy wiki, so just poke Senna to bring it up if you want a stepping stone to start from.
Unless you're looking to start from scratch anyway, and for that, I'll poke about tomorrow. -sway-
Edit: Oh, and to clarify - when I mention confirm whether it's been submitted, I'm not talking about a report that's been tossed up onto the wiki. The report actually has to be e-mailed in, else it just stagnates there.
Pesukaru2010-12-30 09:52:37
I'm not entirely sure what's been suggested, because every single time I've messaged Sior in the game, he either doesn't respond or tells me "the envoys are handling it.". My envoys tell me Sior is handling it, and they don't know anything.
Pesukaru2010-12-30 10:05:49
This is what the old report says, supposedly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------------
Leader: Senna Modified: 2010/12/15 04:47
Name: Old special report (Starhymn) Status: -
Info:
This is the old Starhymn Special report - it will probably be replaced
by the current proposal, in project 163, but this has been kept here for
reference.
Skill: LoveCanticle
- Current: Reduces potion balance recovery time for bard and allies
- Proposed: Add effects to Mercifulsanctus as it currently in increases
potion balance recovery for enemies. A song that disprupts equilibrium
of enemies.
Skill: Starlight
- Current: Afflicts with sensitivity, vomitting, sunallergy
- Proposed: Replace with stupidity, dementia, confusion,
anorexia,amnesia. Increase number of afflictions given based upon cold
levels. Keep afflictions masked. Move to mid stanza
Skill: HopesCarol
- Current: 10 dmp to elemental damage.
- Proposed: Increase to 20 dmp
Skill: CrusaderCanto
- Current: Currently causes a small boost to damage when dealing damage
to an enemy.
- Proposed: Buring with passion of Celestia, Methrenton voice will
surround you in holy flames that will consume the fires within your
enemies, casting them further from the warmth of the Light. Active cold
affliction.
Skill:LightCantata
- Current: Afflicts with blindness and kneel
- Proposed: Add increased gain on holylight for allies
Skill: PrincessFarewell
- Currently this skill costs the Cantor 3 power for a chance to
Aeon,stun and blackout. If said target has quicksilver or other viable
Type MORE to continue reading. (62% shown)
(p) 3909h, 3860m, 5284e, 10p, 17235en, 20468w exk-more
defenses. It takes 6 power to slightly hinder a target.
- Solution:Lower power cost to 2 as with other bards targetted songs.
Skill: JustChorale
- Problem: At the moment, easily cured by monitoring the Supernals name
who'sjudging.
- Solution: General message for enemies when JustChorale fires, Supernal
message for Cantor to keep track of afflictions
Skill: Recessional
- Problem: Has a 33% chance to prevent eating or drinking without taking
balance. This is easily countered by continuing to attempt to eat till
it goes through.
- Solution: Have Recessional take the herb balance away when fired.
Skill: TidalSonnet (New) (Low-Stanza)
- Proposal: Passive afflicts with cold
Skill: Eversea
- Current: Prevents raising of magical shields including sprinkling salt
- Proposal: Include protection scrolls
Leader: Senna Modified: 2010/12/15 04:47
Name: Old special report (Starhymn) Status: -
Info:
This is the old Starhymn Special report - it will probably be replaced
by the current proposal, in project 163, but this has been kept here for
reference.
Skill: LoveCanticle
- Current: Reduces potion balance recovery time for bard and allies
- Proposed: Add effects to Mercifulsanctus as it currently in increases
potion balance recovery for enemies. A song that disprupts equilibrium
of enemies.
Skill: Starlight
- Current: Afflicts with sensitivity, vomitting, sunallergy
- Proposed: Replace with stupidity, dementia, confusion,
anorexia,amnesia. Increase number of afflictions given based upon cold
levels. Keep afflictions masked. Move to mid stanza
Skill: HopesCarol
- Current: 10 dmp to elemental damage.
- Proposed: Increase to 20 dmp
Skill: CrusaderCanto
- Current: Currently causes a small boost to damage when dealing damage
to an enemy.
- Proposed: Buring with passion of Celestia, Methrenton voice will
surround you in holy flames that will consume the fires within your
enemies, casting them further from the warmth of the Light. Active cold
affliction.
Skill:LightCantata
- Current: Afflicts with blindness and kneel
- Proposed: Add increased gain on holylight for allies
Skill: PrincessFarewell
- Currently this skill costs the Cantor 3 power for a chance to
Aeon,stun and blackout. If said target has quicksilver or other viable
Type MORE to continue reading. (62% shown)
(p) 3909h, 3860m, 5284e, 10p, 17235en, 20468w exk-more
defenses. It takes 6 power to slightly hinder a target.
- Solution:Lower power cost to 2 as with other bards targetted songs.
Skill: JustChorale
- Problem: At the moment, easily cured by monitoring the Supernals name
who'sjudging.
- Solution: General message for enemies when JustChorale fires, Supernal
message for Cantor to keep track of afflictions
Skill: Recessional
- Problem: Has a 33% chance to prevent eating or drinking without taking
balance. This is easily countered by continuing to attempt to eat till
it goes through.
- Solution: Have Recessional take the herb balance away when fired.
Skill: TidalSonnet (New) (Low-Stanza)
- Proposal: Passive afflicts with cold
Skill: Eversea
- Current: Prevents raising of magical shields including sprinkling salt
- Proposal: Include protection scrolls
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Pesukaru2010-12-30 10:07:38
And part two of our ideas. Sorry, I know it's a long read.
QUOTE
Firstly, the problems with Starhymn that have been identified and that
this report attempts to fix are as follows:
- Several skills (CrusaderCanto, MercifulSanctus, Recessional, and
EverSea, to name some) have very little effect or are very easily dealt
with.
- Starhymn has less Mid and High stanza abilities than the three other
bard guilds, and you literally find yourself imbuing bad abilities
because there's -literally- nothing else you can imbue. Specifically,
here are the statistics: all four bard guilds have 5 low stanza
abilities, Cantors and Harbingers have 4 mid stanza while the other two
have 5, and Cantors have 5 high stanza effects while all three others
have 6, (including the instakill and the other active ability). This
means Cantors only have 3 passives to imbue in their high stanzas while
the other three have 4 and have some choice in their more powerful
abilities - for instance, to unimbue the terrain-specific one when
they're not in that type of terrain. In addition, unless you're on raid
defense, AngelSong and its equivalents are abilities with literally no
effect, meaning Cantors only have 3 usable mid stanza effects, while
again, Cacophony and Spiritsingers have 4. CelestOde is also near
useless in 1v1 combat, as Cantors generally don't kill through damage
(and it doesn't effect manabarbs/egovice damage), meaning quite often
there are literally only two mid stanza abilities that will have any
effect whatsoever.
- While all three other bard guilds have some sort of "theme" and
continuity between their skills: entanglement provides synergy with
Nihilists and plague afflictions cause synergy within the skillset,
bleeding and mana drain manipulation provide synergy both within Music
and Shadowbeat, as well as with the Nekotai's ability to burst vessels
-and- the Shadowdancers and Blacktalon for their mana kills, and
Wildarrane spirits are used in multiple skills to allow a Spiritsinger
to build up to powerful effects while also providing unique abilities
like watcher spirits. Starhymn doesn't really have anything specific
that it does, rather it seems more like a bunch of random skills that
are thrown together in order to produce something that's effective. For
instance, PrincessFarewell is a good ability, and it's effective in
combat, but it has nothing to do with the rest of the Starhymn skillset
and could easily fit in any other Music specialization. Cantors really
don't have any sort of unique abilities - Processional is a nice low
stanza effect, especially for the endurance and willpower regeneration,
but Cacophony can do the same thing with NecroBallad. There's nothing
that makes Starhymn unique, and it's probably part of the reason no one
ever seems drawn to join the guild.
- Lastly, a few key abilities work much more effectively in conjunction
with Tarot, and badly with Glamours. (LightCantata is an important part
of a Cantor's offense, but blinds enemies, making them less effected by
Glamours. Likewise, PrincessFarewell costs 6 power for a Glamourist to
afflict with aeon, but only 3 power for a Tarot user who has flinged an
aeon card previously.)
Here is the current proposal. (The old one can be found in PROJECT 216.)
HopesCarol
Proposal #1: Remove current effect (10 DMP to cold, fire, and
electricity) and give the bard and their allies a small chance (10%) to
shrug mental affs. Effect will not stack with multiple Cantors in the
room.
Notes: The specific afflictions would be the FocusMind afflictions,
excluding timewarp and temporaryinsanity, or: addiction, agoraphobia,
anorexia, claustrophobia, confusion, dizziness, epilepsy, fear,
hallucinations, impatience, loneliness, lovers, masochism, pacified,
paranoia, reckless, shyness, stupidity, vertigo, and weakness. (Or
something else, if there's already a precedent set for similar effects
which would make it easier/more convenient to code.)
CrusaderCanto
Proposal #1: Remove current effect (build up holy fire up to three
levels, and discharge in a small burst of damage on all attacks made by
the bard). Increase to a max of five holy fire levels. Give user 2 DMP
for each level of holyfire, maxing out at 10. Show number of levels on
SONGSTAT.
Notes: These "holy fire" levels will be utilized in later abilities, the
idea being that they will allow Starhymn to contain semi-powerful
abilities while keeping them in check in various ways; as they all
consume/require the same resource, the Cantor will have to choose which
ones to use during certain situations in a fight. This is the main
combat mechanic behind this special report. As a side note, this DMP is
meant to replace the HopesCarol DMP - while HopesCarol was a flat 10 to
fire, frost, and electricity, this will be 10 DMP to all types of
damage, but will be variable based on holy fire levels; it will be
decreased when holy fire is used for offensive skills.
ALTERNATIVELY FOR HopesCarol / CrusaderCanto
Proposal #2: Same as #1, but switch the DMP and affliction shrugging
between the two skills (CrusaderCanto's holy fire would then give a
chance to shrug affs, and HopesCarol would give DMP as it currently
does).
Notes: This would not be preferable, as CrusaderCanto is meant to effect
the user only, and not allies, and it makes more sense for an aura of
holy fire to reduce damage taken than somehow block afflictions, but it
could be done if it's felt it's a balance issue - in this case,
HopesCarol's DMP would just be expanded to provide a blanket 10 to all
sources for allies and the user, while CrusaderCanto would give the user
a cumulative chance per holy fire level to resist the same mental affs,
giving 2% per level and maxing out at the same 10%.
RighteousPsalm (New Ability - Mid stanza, between LightCantata and
CelestOde)
Proposal #1: While this song is playing and you attack someone, a level
of holyfire will discharge, as long as you have at least one, and will
afflict with one of the following: stupidity, vapors, confusion, and
impatience. This affliction will be masked to the person giving it, so
the Cantor will not be able to abuse vapors and PrincessFarewell to
stack blackout or the like.
Notes: The message here should be similar to what the old CrusaderCanto
was one when it discharged.
ReverberantShield (New Ability - High stanza, between JustChorale and
Recessional)
Proposal #1: When someone attacks the Cantor, the attacker will take a
small amount of fire damage. There will also also be a chance of
afflicting with an masked affliction from the following list: stupidity,
vapors, confusion, and impatience. The damage and affliction chance will
increase based on the number of levels of holy fire, dealing 60 damage
per level and increasing by increments of 20%, for 300 damage and a 100%
chance to deliver an affliction at max holyfire. In order not to be
overpowered vs. monks and telekinesis and telepath users and the like,
once this has discharged and struck someone (even if it does not
afflict), it will not be able to discharge again and hit with damage or
the affliction chance against that person for 1 second.
Proposal #2: After some thought, here's a possibly better way to set up
the ability: It would, instead, have a 50% chance of discharging on any
attack working on a single balance (minorsecond, cosmicfire, nature
vines, two-handed warriors, etc.), a 25% chance for attacks with two
balances (one-handed warriors), and a 16.67% chance of firing on attacks
with three balances (monk actions and psionics). When it discharges, it
would do the same amount of damage: , and
have a chance to deliver one of the above afflictions equal to . This seems to be a slightly more reliable
and less clunky way to do it to me, but I'm open to suggestions. This
ability will probably not have a chance of firing at 0 holy fire, the
reasoning being that if you don't have an aura of holy fire, than one
shouldn't be defending you from others' attacks, but this could work
either way (either this, or a 50% chance to fire at 0, with 0 damage and
a 50% chance to afflict. I don't think it's really much of a balance
issue).
Notes: The message on this will be, again, similar to RighteousPsalm and
the old CrusaderCanto message. The affliction will be masked to the
Cantor giving the affliction, similarly to and for the same reasons as
it is in RighteousPsalm.
PrincessFarewell
Proposal #1: Keep at cost of 3 power. Allow it to strip quicksilver as
well as afflicting with aeon. Will require and consume three levels of
holy fire.
Proposal #2: Keep at cost of 3 power. Allow it to bypass the quicksilver
defense and still afflict with aeon, without stripping quicksilver. Will
also still take three levels of holy fire.
Proposal #3: Either 1 or 2, but increase the duration of the stun on
PrincessFarewell, since with the holy fire requirement, it can no longer
be used twice in a row to more effectively stack afflictions and/or help
pull off a kill.
Notes: This will make the skill overall more powerful, but mostly just
more accessible to Glamourists (as one of the main goals in this report
is to make Glamours a viable tertiary for a Cantor). The holy fire
requirement keeps it from being spammable (and, in theory, lowers it
back down to non-overpowered status).
StarLight
Proposal #1: Change affs to anorexia, sensitivity, masochism, and
dementia.
LightCantata
Proposal #1: Remove the passive blind and replace with epilepsy. (i.e.
"You fall to your knees and cry out, the blinding light overwhelming
your senses.")
Proposal #2: Same as above, but also increase allies' holylight gained
(double it, perhaps?) while this is playing. This effect will not stack
with multiple Cantors in the room.
JustChorale
Proposal 1: Keep the affs as they are, but mask the afflictions to all
but the bard (that is, any onlookers as well as the person/people being
afflicted).
Proposal 2: Change the affs to paralysis for Elohora, pacifism for
Raziela, stupidity for Japhiel, recklessness for Methrenton, and
paranoia for Shakiniel.
Proposal 3: Same as proposal 2, but mask the afflictions as in proposal
1.
Notes: For reference, the current afflictions are: Elohora: paralysis,
Raziela: pacifism, Japhiel: hallucinations, Methrenton: sensitivity, and
Shakiniel: hypochondria. If we are to keep the theme of picking from the
Celestine investment afflictions for each Supernal, the full list of
choices are:
Elohora - addiction / luminous / kneel / paralysis / powersink
Raziela - clumsiness / love / pacifism / vapors / vestiphobia
Japhiel - amnesia / hallucinations / shyness / stupidity / weakness
Methrenton - bleeding / ablaze / justice / recklessness / sensitivity
Shakiniel - anorexia / dementia / claustrophobia / hypochondria /
paranoia
(Information taken from
http://sites.google.com/site/xieltalnara/CosmicPacts.)
Recessional
Notes: This should be kept it as it is. With easier access to aeon and
stupidity, it will be more effective. I would rather see other abilities
be improved and keep this at its 33%. It's not an amazing ability, but
any alternative (like making it steal herb/potion balance when it fires)
would be insanely powerful at a 33% chance.
EverSea
Proposal 1: Keep its original effect, but also increase the delay on
raising protection (with the concept being that the waters will pull at
your magical protections and resist them). Possibly add a line warning
of this upon reading protection when this is active. (i.e. "You read a
Scroll of Protection." new line "The waters swirl around you, resisting
your attempts to raise magical protections.")
Proposal 2: Same as above, but also increase the EQ loss from reading
protection.
Proposal 3: Flat-out prevent enemies from raising protection. This is my
least favorite option, as I feel it's too powerful, but as it was
included in the original Starhymn special report I've included it in
here.
this report attempts to fix are as follows:
- Several skills (CrusaderCanto, MercifulSanctus, Recessional, and
EverSea, to name some) have very little effect or are very easily dealt
with.
- Starhymn has less Mid and High stanza abilities than the three other
bard guilds, and you literally find yourself imbuing bad abilities
because there's -literally- nothing else you can imbue. Specifically,
here are the statistics: all four bard guilds have 5 low stanza
abilities, Cantors and Harbingers have 4 mid stanza while the other two
have 5, and Cantors have 5 high stanza effects while all three others
have 6, (including the instakill and the other active ability). This
means Cantors only have 3 passives to imbue in their high stanzas while
the other three have 4 and have some choice in their more powerful
abilities - for instance, to unimbue the terrain-specific one when
they're not in that type of terrain. In addition, unless you're on raid
defense, AngelSong and its equivalents are abilities with literally no
effect, meaning Cantors only have 3 usable mid stanza effects, while
again, Cacophony and Spiritsingers have 4. CelestOde is also near
useless in 1v1 combat, as Cantors generally don't kill through damage
(and it doesn't effect manabarbs/egovice damage), meaning quite often
there are literally only two mid stanza abilities that will have any
effect whatsoever.
- While all three other bard guilds have some sort of "theme" and
continuity between their skills: entanglement provides synergy with
Nihilists and plague afflictions cause synergy within the skillset,
bleeding and mana drain manipulation provide synergy both within Music
and Shadowbeat, as well as with the Nekotai's ability to burst vessels
-and- the Shadowdancers and Blacktalon for their mana kills, and
Wildarrane spirits are used in multiple skills to allow a Spiritsinger
to build up to powerful effects while also providing unique abilities
like watcher spirits. Starhymn doesn't really have anything specific
that it does, rather it seems more like a bunch of random skills that
are thrown together in order to produce something that's effective. For
instance, PrincessFarewell is a good ability, and it's effective in
combat, but it has nothing to do with the rest of the Starhymn skillset
and could easily fit in any other Music specialization. Cantors really
don't have any sort of unique abilities - Processional is a nice low
stanza effect, especially for the endurance and willpower regeneration,
but Cacophony can do the same thing with NecroBallad. There's nothing
that makes Starhymn unique, and it's probably part of the reason no one
ever seems drawn to join the guild.
- Lastly, a few key abilities work much more effectively in conjunction
with Tarot, and badly with Glamours. (LightCantata is an important part
of a Cantor's offense, but blinds enemies, making them less effected by
Glamours. Likewise, PrincessFarewell costs 6 power for a Glamourist to
afflict with aeon, but only 3 power for a Tarot user who has flinged an
aeon card previously.)
Here is the current proposal. (The old one can be found in PROJECT 216.)
HopesCarol
Proposal #1: Remove current effect (10 DMP to cold, fire, and
electricity) and give the bard and their allies a small chance (10%) to
shrug mental affs. Effect will not stack with multiple Cantors in the
room.
Notes: The specific afflictions would be the FocusMind afflictions,
excluding timewarp and temporaryinsanity, or: addiction, agoraphobia,
anorexia, claustrophobia, confusion, dizziness, epilepsy, fear,
hallucinations, impatience, loneliness, lovers, masochism, pacified,
paranoia, reckless, shyness, stupidity, vertigo, and weakness. (Or
something else, if there's already a precedent set for similar effects
which would make it easier/more convenient to code.)
CrusaderCanto
Proposal #1: Remove current effect (build up holy fire up to three
levels, and discharge in a small burst of damage on all attacks made by
the bard). Increase to a max of five holy fire levels. Give user 2 DMP
for each level of holyfire, maxing out at 10. Show number of levels on
SONGSTAT.
Notes: These "holy fire" levels will be utilized in later abilities, the
idea being that they will allow Starhymn to contain semi-powerful
abilities while keeping them in check in various ways; as they all
consume/require the same resource, the Cantor will have to choose which
ones to use during certain situations in a fight. This is the main
combat mechanic behind this special report. As a side note, this DMP is
meant to replace the HopesCarol DMP - while HopesCarol was a flat 10 to
fire, frost, and electricity, this will be 10 DMP to all types of
damage, but will be variable based on holy fire levels; it will be
decreased when holy fire is used for offensive skills.
ALTERNATIVELY FOR HopesCarol / CrusaderCanto
Proposal #2: Same as #1, but switch the DMP and affliction shrugging
between the two skills (CrusaderCanto's holy fire would then give a
chance to shrug affs, and HopesCarol would give DMP as it currently
does).
Notes: This would not be preferable, as CrusaderCanto is meant to effect
the user only, and not allies, and it makes more sense for an aura of
holy fire to reduce damage taken than somehow block afflictions, but it
could be done if it's felt it's a balance issue - in this case,
HopesCarol's DMP would just be expanded to provide a blanket 10 to all
sources for allies and the user, while CrusaderCanto would give the user
a cumulative chance per holy fire level to resist the same mental affs,
giving 2% per level and maxing out at the same 10%.
RighteousPsalm (New Ability - Mid stanza, between LightCantata and
CelestOde)
Proposal #1: While this song is playing and you attack someone, a level
of holyfire will discharge, as long as you have at least one, and will
afflict with one of the following: stupidity, vapors, confusion, and
impatience. This affliction will be masked to the person giving it, so
the Cantor will not be able to abuse vapors and PrincessFarewell to
stack blackout or the like.
Notes: The message here should be similar to what the old CrusaderCanto
was one when it discharged.
ReverberantShield (New Ability - High stanza, between JustChorale and
Recessional)
Proposal #1: When someone attacks the Cantor, the attacker will take a
small amount of fire damage. There will also also be a chance of
afflicting with an masked affliction from the following list: stupidity,
vapors, confusion, and impatience. The damage and affliction chance will
increase based on the number of levels of holy fire, dealing 60 damage
per level and increasing by increments of 20%, for 300 damage and a 100%
chance to deliver an affliction at max holyfire. In order not to be
overpowered vs. monks and telekinesis and telepath users and the like,
once this has discharged and struck someone (even if it does not
afflict), it will not be able to discharge again and hit with damage or
the affliction chance against that person for 1 second.
Proposal #2: After some thought, here's a possibly better way to set up
the ability: It would, instead, have a 50% chance of discharging on any
attack working on a single balance (minorsecond, cosmicfire, nature
vines, two-handed warriors, etc.), a 25% chance for attacks with two
balances (one-handed warriors), and a 16.67% chance of firing on attacks
with three balances (monk actions and psionics). When it discharges, it
would do the same amount of damage: , and
have a chance to deliver one of the above afflictions equal to . This seems to be a slightly more reliable
and less clunky way to do it to me, but I'm open to suggestions. This
ability will probably not have a chance of firing at 0 holy fire, the
reasoning being that if you don't have an aura of holy fire, than one
shouldn't be defending you from others' attacks, but this could work
either way (either this, or a 50% chance to fire at 0, with 0 damage and
a 50% chance to afflict. I don't think it's really much of a balance
issue).
Notes: The message on this will be, again, similar to RighteousPsalm and
the old CrusaderCanto message. The affliction will be masked to the
Cantor giving the affliction, similarly to and for the same reasons as
it is in RighteousPsalm.
PrincessFarewell
Proposal #1: Keep at cost of 3 power. Allow it to strip quicksilver as
well as afflicting with aeon. Will require and consume three levels of
holy fire.
Proposal #2: Keep at cost of 3 power. Allow it to bypass the quicksilver
defense and still afflict with aeon, without stripping quicksilver. Will
also still take three levels of holy fire.
Proposal #3: Either 1 or 2, but increase the duration of the stun on
PrincessFarewell, since with the holy fire requirement, it can no longer
be used twice in a row to more effectively stack afflictions and/or help
pull off a kill.
Notes: This will make the skill overall more powerful, but mostly just
more accessible to Glamourists (as one of the main goals in this report
is to make Glamours a viable tertiary for a Cantor). The holy fire
requirement keeps it from being spammable (and, in theory, lowers it
back down to non-overpowered status).
StarLight
Proposal #1: Change affs to anorexia, sensitivity, masochism, and
dementia.
LightCantata
Proposal #1: Remove the passive blind and replace with epilepsy. (i.e.
"You fall to your knees and cry out, the blinding light overwhelming
your senses.")
Proposal #2: Same as above, but also increase allies' holylight gained
(double it, perhaps?) while this is playing. This effect will not stack
with multiple Cantors in the room.
JustChorale
Proposal 1: Keep the affs as they are, but mask the afflictions to all
but the bard (that is, any onlookers as well as the person/people being
afflicted).
Proposal 2: Change the affs to paralysis for Elohora, pacifism for
Raziela, stupidity for Japhiel, recklessness for Methrenton, and
paranoia for Shakiniel.
Proposal 3: Same as proposal 2, but mask the afflictions as in proposal
1.
Notes: For reference, the current afflictions are: Elohora: paralysis,
Raziela: pacifism, Japhiel: hallucinations, Methrenton: sensitivity, and
Shakiniel: hypochondria. If we are to keep the theme of picking from the
Celestine investment afflictions for each Supernal, the full list of
choices are:
Elohora - addiction / luminous / kneel / paralysis / powersink
Raziela - clumsiness / love / pacifism / vapors / vestiphobia
Japhiel - amnesia / hallucinations / shyness / stupidity / weakness
Methrenton - bleeding / ablaze / justice / recklessness / sensitivity
Shakiniel - anorexia / dementia / claustrophobia / hypochondria /
paranoia
(Information taken from
http://sites.google.com/site/xieltalnara/CosmicPacts.)
Recessional
Notes: This should be kept it as it is. With easier access to aeon and
stupidity, it will be more effective. I would rather see other abilities
be improved and keep this at its 33%. It's not an amazing ability, but
any alternative (like making it steal herb/potion balance when it fires)
would be insanely powerful at a 33% chance.
EverSea
Proposal 1: Keep its original effect, but also increase the delay on
raising protection (with the concept being that the waters will pull at
your magical protections and resist them). Possibly add a line warning
of this upon reading protection when this is active. (i.e. "You read a
Scroll of Protection." new line "The waters swirl around you, resisting
your attempts to raise magical protections.")
Proposal 2: Same as above, but also increase the EQ loss from reading
protection.
Proposal 3: Flat-out prevent enemies from raising protection. This is my
least favorite option, as I feel it's too powerful, but as it was
included in the original Starhymn special report I've included it in
here.
Xenthos2010-12-30 12:29:37
I'm not entirely sure where you're coming from in your assessment of other guilds here.
Spiritsinger is pretty much hands-down the strongest bard guild in the game, but you claim it's weaker than Harbinger and Cacophony. Spiritsinger has their spirits which allow for multiple additional options on top of their other bard songs, which gives them enough extra oomph (both on offense -and- defense) to put them considerably above the rest even though their songs are not on the whole otherwise quite on par with Cacophony.
Cacophony has things like vileblood, its plague afflictions / output, and so on. It is also quite powerful in terms of its actual output and impact.
Then you say that things like faster writhe time and shroud / unshroud are equivalent to the above.
First of all, Harbingers don't even have a double-mana-loss ability any more. They don't really have any affliction output (though an envoy report was just accepted to try to take a first step towards addressing that). It's pretty much entirely support and trying to help other guilds take advantage of their own skills, without actually adding much itself.
For example, there's no ally-wide regeneration, no ally DMP, and most definitely no ally-affliction-curing (in addition to the no-afflicting). Shields are somewhat annoying until you code around them, but it's not really on part with affliction curing.
You state the following:
As Cantors, we have absolutely no synergy, nothing that makes us special or gives us a focus. The only way to slay an enemy is the usual aurics/discordantchord that is entirely too easy to keep out of, or blanknote/perfectfifth/princessfarewell to strip quicksilver/princessfarewell to aeon/requiem, which is power intensive and rarely works.
This is, for a Harbinger, pretty much the only way to go as well (excepting bursts of Crowcaw instead of Princessfarewell, which admittedly is a bit more powerful; but hopping out of the aurics and discordantchord is pretty much game over for them as well as their entire song's offensive focus is, essentially, a piddly amount of bleeding which you're never going to have an issue with).
This is not to say that we I haven't talked at length about certain Cantor tweaks here and there with the various Cantor envoys who have come through, but I think you're a bit off in where you're focusing on other guilds and what they have as advantages. If you want to aim for something, aim for Spiritsingers, not for +50% mana loss.
Spiritsinger is pretty much hands-down the strongest bard guild in the game, but you claim it's weaker than Harbinger and Cacophony. Spiritsinger has their spirits which allow for multiple additional options on top of their other bard songs, which gives them enough extra oomph (both on offense -and- defense) to put them considerably above the rest even though their songs are not on the whole otherwise quite on par with Cacophony.
Cacophony has things like vileblood, its plague afflictions / output, and so on. It is also quite powerful in terms of its actual output and impact.
Then you say that things like faster writhe time and shroud / unshroud are equivalent to the above.
First of all, Harbingers don't even have a double-mana-loss ability any more. They don't really have any affliction output (though an envoy report was just accepted to try to take a first step towards addressing that). It's pretty much entirely support and trying to help other guilds take advantage of their own skills, without actually adding much itself.For example, there's no ally-wide regeneration, no ally DMP, and most definitely no ally-affliction-curing (in addition to the no-afflicting). Shields are somewhat annoying until you code around them, but it's not really on part with affliction curing.
You state the following:
As Cantors, we have absolutely no synergy, nothing that makes us special or gives us a focus. The only way to slay an enemy is the usual aurics/discordantchord that is entirely too easy to keep out of, or blanknote/perfectfifth/princessfarewell to strip quicksilver/princessfarewell to aeon/requiem, which is power intensive and rarely works.
This is, for a Harbinger, pretty much the only way to go as well (excepting bursts of Crowcaw instead of Princessfarewell, which admittedly is a bit more powerful; but hopping out of the aurics and discordantchord is pretty much game over for them as well as their entire song's offensive focus is, essentially, a piddly amount of bleeding which you're never going to have an issue with).
This is not to say that we I haven't talked at length about certain Cantor tweaks here and there with the various Cantor envoys who have come through, but I think you're a bit off in where you're focusing on other guilds and what they have as advantages. If you want to aim for something, aim for Spiritsingers, not for +50% mana loss.
Unknown2010-12-30 14:26:09
Glarple goop wizzle wump nala. Derp shibbity shop a derp a bop. Harbringers FIZZUL! fibble wop noodle nam bobble. Shorbu whe brloipu, nam galo izso nab wing gobble! Ona, olamania apedia. Yignarizonth fob, yignarizonth fei. Huelios nahu rubilak Sior, fevio ver iz okiutoloth "talk to your envoy." Tublenarch glotorazu nzneb rliopvin werityuv, ujo bib, la Bjork. Reoiluz tewgigas, gigas za nibtuvan wezzirog. La! La! Shub-niggurath.
There, I made a post, as per my particular idiom.
I disagree with Xenthos on principle of doing so.
There, I made a post, as per my particular idiom.
I disagree with Xenthos on principle of doing so.
Talan2010-12-30 14:49:07
Right - not sure what that was. Xenthos's comments on comparing the guilds are pretty on. How very handy, I can just complain to him and then a couple of weeks later it will show up as a neatly formatted and appropriately placed forum post. 
Basically what Eventru said. Senna's got a revised starhymn report up on the envoy wiki. Get in touch with her!
Basically what Eventru said. Senna's got a revised starhymn report up on the envoy wiki. Get in touch with her!
Unknown2010-12-30 16:20:16
Good luck, hope you guys get what you need! When I was with Cantors (and an envoy...) people were in complete tears over Recessional and CrusaderCanto was awesomesauce and Acrune used to 1 or 2-hit people heh. But that's changed now. Still, synergy has always been a problem. JustChorale should really mask the afflictions (like Institute gems) e.g. the afflicted sees the message but it can be either 1 of 2 or 3 afflictions. I like this concept of building of holy fire you've got - and further abilities requiring amounts of holy fire to use. Go the way of the Spiritsinger =p And Starhymn will finally be cool and useful enough to retain more than 3 or 4 people in the guild.
Jayden2010-12-30 16:39:25
1. I emailed it before the release of Gaudi and Halli, but it got lost in all the hoopla of new guilds and what not. I didnt stress the issue cause new shiny things were happeneing. 6 new guilds and what not....
2. Senna decided to do a new report after I stepped down.
3. My recessional idea was to take away the actually balance used not herb balance instead of being a high stanza amnesia. Thats my bad there.
4. If a person is afflicted with afterimage, lightcantata will not blind.
5. Princessfarewell is good for hiding soulless
6. Crusadercanto also works with warrior tarot
Starhymns previous focus was delaying/hindering curing and damage damage damage, due to some opness whats left is a shell of that. Most of the ideas or suggestions I got were something that was another version of the other bard guilds 2.0. So I went with something that I imagined would work well with Aquamancers and be good 1v1...
2. Senna decided to do a new report after I stepped down.
3. My recessional idea was to take away the actually balance used not herb balance instead of being a high stanza amnesia. Thats my bad there.
4. If a person is afflicted with afterimage, lightcantata will not blind.
5. Princessfarewell is good for hiding soulless
6. Crusadercanto also works with warrior tarot
Starhymns previous focus was delaying/hindering curing and damage damage damage, due to some opness whats left is a shell of that. Most of the ideas or suggestions I got were something that was another version of the other bard guilds 2.0. So I went with something that I imagined would work well with Aquamancers and be good 1v1...
Simimi2010-12-30 17:39:09
Just throwing this out there, what if some of our songs empowered the bard? In the vein of PhantasmicArmour or IllusorySelf, we could summon the souls of the Saints of old (as in the HolyLight and such Sacraments skills) and they would empower the personal bard with their wisdom and faith in The Light. What if Starhymn was more 1v1 focused in that regard?
Likewise we could maybe empower one nearbyally with an ancient teaching, maybe an ancient Aquamancer prayer/theorum/whateverfits to provide that specific Aqua a buff of some sort?
Dun know, just throwing stuff out there. I want to help and be productive, as I would love to see Starhymn have more flavour if anything.
Likewise we could maybe empower one nearbyally with an ancient teaching, maybe an ancient Aquamancer prayer/theorum/whateverfits to provide that specific Aqua a buff of some sort?
Dun know, just throwing stuff out there. I want to help and be productive, as I would love to see Starhymn have more flavour if anything.
Pesukaru2010-12-30 20:03:05
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Dec 30 2010, 06:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then you say that things like faster writhe time and shroud / unshroud are equivalent to the above. First of all, Harbingers don't even have a double-mana-loss ability any more. They don't really have any affliction output (though an envoy report was just accepted to try to take a first step towards addressing that). It's pretty much entirely support and trying to help other guilds take advantage of their own skills, without actually adding much itself.
First of all, Harbingers don't even have a double-mana-loss ability any more. They don't really have any affliction output (though an envoy report was just accepted to try to take a first step towards addressing that). It's pretty much entirely support and trying to help other guilds take advantage of their own skills, without actually adding much itself.Which is why I said my information may not be correct, and to let me know if I'm wrong. Thanks, Xenthos!
Also, thank you Akui. You know why
@ Simimi : That's the sort of post I'm looking for, ideas. Keep it up! Just so long as the skill doesn't turn into Spiritsingers.
Yiila2010-12-30 20:24:29
I like the idea of a more 1v1 geared specialization personally, doubly so with more personal buffs. I understand that such a specialization might be impractical, but that theme sounds nice.
I read that the guildhall was originally in the cathedral. What if we played on that theme, weaving prayers/hymns into ourselves/allies. I'm thinking a line in defenses "A Hymn to Marinus is channeled in the forefront of your mind" could apply buff to Aquamancers. Even if it applied to any allied Aquamancer, we could set the buffs up individually, "sing hymn marinus channel Aeral" or some such.
What if we kept with our current number of songs but had a slightly different mechanic, channels. We could channel a song/hymn into the foreground/background of one's mind, proving a boon or malus accordingly if they hear it, just like current songs. An example might be the above Marinus hymnal in the foreground of an allied Aquamancer improves jellies (or whatever) but while in the background of their mind slightly increases water regen or twirl staff (or whatever.)
Maybe something like this?
I read that the guildhall was originally in the cathedral. What if we played on that theme, weaving prayers/hymns into ourselves/allies. I'm thinking a line in defenses "A Hymn to Marinus is channeled in the forefront of your mind" could apply buff to Aquamancers. Even if it applied to any allied Aquamancer, we could set the buffs up individually, "sing hymn marinus channel Aeral" or some such.
What if we kept with our current number of songs but had a slightly different mechanic, channels. We could channel a song/hymn into the foreground/background of one's mind, proving a boon or malus accordingly if they hear it, just like current songs. An example might be the above Marinus hymnal in the foreground of an allied Aquamancer improves jellies (or whatever) but while in the background of their mind slightly increases water regen or twirl staff (or whatever.)
Maybe something like this?
Rika2010-12-30 22:47:15
You realise that aurics + discordantchord is pretty much how all bards kill, right? If anything, support report 506!
Yiila2010-12-30 22:49:49
Wow those are some good suggestions in that project.
Rodngar2010-12-30 22:56:43
Cantors have no synergy, is what I just read in those reports. I would probably say they need a serious facelift, not just a handful of buffs.
Yiila2010-12-30 22:58:19
I support the serious face lift idea!
Pesukaru2010-12-30 23:03:04
QUOTE (Rodngar @ Dec 30 2010, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cantors have no synergy, is what I just read in those reports. I would probably say they need a serious facelift, not just a handful of buffs.
Exactly.
