Unknown2011-03-09 19:49:30
I've finally completed the Hand of Tzaraziko quest with both factions, and it has come to my attention that the Gaudiguch Hand of Tzaraziko Quest has a number of biases which, while almost certainly not intentional, are disappointingly unresolved thus far. I have listed them below, along with proposed solutions, and divided them into mechanical issues and non-mechanical issues. The mechanical issues have been further sub-divided into three sections, one for each stage of the quest.
Summary of Stage One:
During the first half of the Gaudiguch side of the quest, one must kill 10 gila lizards, give them to Ssaliro Xeth, and then receive 1 phial of herbicide. This phial is then used to get 1 desiccated kouseki cactus, which goes to Charestu Thech to be treated. Once treated, the cactus is taken to a sandojin which then follows you. The sandojin is lead back to Charestu, then to Noth Iborchi. Noth gives you a parchment and then sends you to Shibuchi Tleeth in Dairuchi who then sends you to Gaudiguch with the sandojin. This entire process is repeated 30 times to create the statue.
Mechanical Issues:
1. Shibuchi Tleeth is in Dairuchi. If Dairuchi belongs to some faction that is hostile to Gaudiguch, the Gaudiguch side of the Hand quest cannot be completed, or even be started at all. This would be fixed by allowing Chendari Tloaka, who lives outside of Dairuchi, to accept the parchment from Noth instead of Shibuchi or by creating a denizen that fulfills a similar role.
2. Stage One of the Hallifax side of the Hand quest requires that the sandojin be slain and turned in. This directly prevents Stage One of the Gaudiguch side of the quest from progressing, as the Gaudiguch side requires that there be live sandojin.
3. Ssaliro Xeth is in the same room as 2 dracnari harlots. These harlots, if given an item (say a gila lizard) will not give it back unless begged from or slain. The fix here would be to move them in with Noth, or to make them return items given to them.
Summary of Stage Two:
Once the statue is completed, the dracnari begin breeding a wakabi to find the Hand. Teaka Iborchi is in charge of that and instructs you to feed cobras to wild wakabi in the desert. The wakabi, once fed, will lay a random egg, either pink, blue, orange, yellow or speckled. Teaka will request that you bring her a specific colour of egg at random. Turning in an egg that has not been requested destroys it. Once 30 of the requested eggs have been turned in, a wakabi chick is born and we move onto Stage Three.
Mechanical Issues:
1. A maximum of 6 wakabi eggs can exist at any one time. That is not 6 of each sort, but 6 total. The result is that, if the specific egg you are looking for is generated (26% chance of this happening on the first egg and going up from there), then you must counter-intuitively destroy one of the eggs you've already created in order to try again. Further, the entire quest can be held up by simply generating 6 eggs and then sitting on them somewhere and never turning them in. This would be fixed by increasing the number of eggs allowed to exist at once to be equal to the number of cobra that exist.
2. Unlike the Hallifax side of the quest, there is no way to decide what colour of egg you will receive, nor to tell what egg Teaka will request next. It is purely random in both cases. Thus, there is no planning possible, just trial and error until what you're given and what you need happen to match up. This would be fixed by removing the random aspect completely and requiring that Teaka receive a fixed number of each sort of egg in any order, ie. 10 blue, 10 pink, 10 speckled, 10 yellow and 10 orange.
3. Once an egg is taken from the wakabi, all wakabi in the desert become hostile to you. No creatures become hostile to you during the Hallifax side of the quest. This would be resolved by making the wakabi not turn hostile when you take the egg, or by causing some animal (say sandojin) to become hostile to anyone carrying kouseki flowers.
4. The wakabi required for this portion of the quest can be killed. The same is not true for the kouseki flowers. Even desiccating them with the herbicide wouldn't work, as there are more kouseki in the desert than herbicides can be made per respawn period. The fix here would be to either allow kouseki to be sabtagoged so that they do not produce flowers.
5. Yirit Iborchi allows a quest that sends mutant cockatrices to kill the wakabi in the Skarch. There exists no equivilent for Gaudiguch to perform and has no harmful effects, so far as I can tell, on the gathering of kouseki flowers. The solution here would be to introduce a quest that interferes with the Hallifax side of the quest, or to cause Yirit's cockatrices to interupt both faction's efforts.
6. If Teaka is given an egg while the Mesa is attacking the Nomad camp, she will refuse to accept it, but not return it to the player nor count it towards the total eggs required. It has to be begged off of her. This is not the case for Indiau.
Summary of Stage Three:
In this stage, the Ebony Wakabi has hatched and needs to be fed 3 spawns worth of cobras before it is ready to go find the hand. Once it's been fed, you need to go to the wakabi, dig up the hand and put it in the statue.
Mechanical Issues:
1. The Ebony Wakabi can be killed during stage three. It isn't even difficult to do so; it has less health than most guardian/wiccan ents. Killing it resets the quest back to the very start of Stage Two and is nearly impossible to prevent in any meaningful sense. The wakabi isn't even loyal to the nomad camp, so Avenger can get in the way of defending the wakabi if it comes to that. Further, it is not possible to simply feed the wakabi up and muscle through stage three before the bird can be killed, as you need more cobras than spawn at once time. As such, there is always a window of at least an hour and a half in which the wakabi can be killed. The solution here is to change the third stage of the quest to be a puzzle, like the Hallifax side of the quest is, and not spawn an actual wakabi denizen until it's time for the wakabi to lead the way to the Hand.
Thematic Issues:
1. Denizen descriptions:
Noth is the leader of the Nomad camp. Here's what he looks like:
Dracnari warriors and stablehands look like this:
and this:
respectively. Ssaliro Xeth, in addition to living with a pair of harlots, looks like this:
Teaka Iborachi occasionally does the room emote;
The only half-way competent person in the camp is Vanaka Rhiero, who looks like this:
Compare the lucidian:
and trill:
and their leader, J'hal'ck Taroch:
who are described as being universally better than the dracnari nomads. It seems to me that whoever designed these areas specifically went out of their way to describe the Mesa Compound as being superior to the Dracnari nomads in every aspect, from training to equipment to personality to hygine. That may have been acceptable when Gaudiguch and Hallifax were non-playable factions, but now that they are playable, there should be some degree of parity between them, both mechanically and thematically.
Summary of Stage One:
During the first half of the Gaudiguch side of the quest, one must kill 10 gila lizards, give them to Ssaliro Xeth, and then receive 1 phial of herbicide. This phial is then used to get 1 desiccated kouseki cactus, which goes to Charestu Thech to be treated. Once treated, the cactus is taken to a sandojin which then follows you. The sandojin is lead back to Charestu, then to Noth Iborchi. Noth gives you a parchment and then sends you to Shibuchi Tleeth in Dairuchi who then sends you to Gaudiguch with the sandojin. This entire process is repeated 30 times to create the statue.
Mechanical Issues:
1. Shibuchi Tleeth is in Dairuchi. If Dairuchi belongs to some faction that is hostile to Gaudiguch, the Gaudiguch side of the Hand quest cannot be completed, or even be started at all. This would be fixed by allowing Chendari Tloaka, who lives outside of Dairuchi, to accept the parchment from Noth instead of Shibuchi or by creating a denizen that fulfills a similar role.
2. Stage One of the Hallifax side of the Hand quest requires that the sandojin be slain and turned in. This directly prevents Stage One of the Gaudiguch side of the quest from progressing, as the Gaudiguch side requires that there be live sandojin.
3. Ssaliro Xeth is in the same room as 2 dracnari harlots. These harlots, if given an item (say a gila lizard) will not give it back unless begged from or slain. The fix here would be to move them in with Noth, or to make them return items given to them.
Summary of Stage Two:
Once the statue is completed, the dracnari begin breeding a wakabi to find the Hand. Teaka Iborchi is in charge of that and instructs you to feed cobras to wild wakabi in the desert. The wakabi, once fed, will lay a random egg, either pink, blue, orange, yellow or speckled. Teaka will request that you bring her a specific colour of egg at random. Turning in an egg that has not been requested destroys it. Once 30 of the requested eggs have been turned in, a wakabi chick is born and we move onto Stage Three.
Mechanical Issues:
1. A maximum of 6 wakabi eggs can exist at any one time. That is not 6 of each sort, but 6 total. The result is that, if the specific egg you are looking for is generated (26% chance of this happening on the first egg and going up from there), then you must counter-intuitively destroy one of the eggs you've already created in order to try again. Further, the entire quest can be held up by simply generating 6 eggs and then sitting on them somewhere and never turning them in. This would be fixed by increasing the number of eggs allowed to exist at once to be equal to the number of cobra that exist.
2. Unlike the Hallifax side of the quest, there is no way to decide what colour of egg you will receive, nor to tell what egg Teaka will request next. It is purely random in both cases. Thus, there is no planning possible, just trial and error until what you're given and what you need happen to match up. This would be fixed by removing the random aspect completely and requiring that Teaka receive a fixed number of each sort of egg in any order, ie. 10 blue, 10 pink, 10 speckled, 10 yellow and 10 orange.
3. Once an egg is taken from the wakabi, all wakabi in the desert become hostile to you. No creatures become hostile to you during the Hallifax side of the quest. This would be resolved by making the wakabi not turn hostile when you take the egg, or by causing some animal (say sandojin) to become hostile to anyone carrying kouseki flowers.
4. The wakabi required for this portion of the quest can be killed. The same is not true for the kouseki flowers. Even desiccating them with the herbicide wouldn't work, as there are more kouseki in the desert than herbicides can be made per respawn period. The fix here would be to either allow kouseki to be sabtagoged so that they do not produce flowers.
5. Yirit Iborchi allows a quest that sends mutant cockatrices to kill the wakabi in the Skarch. There exists no equivilent for Gaudiguch to perform and has no harmful effects, so far as I can tell, on the gathering of kouseki flowers. The solution here would be to introduce a quest that interferes with the Hallifax side of the quest, or to cause Yirit's cockatrices to interupt both faction's efforts.
6. If Teaka is given an egg while the Mesa is attacking the Nomad camp, she will refuse to accept it, but not return it to the player nor count it towards the total eggs required. It has to be begged off of her. This is not the case for Indiau.
Summary of Stage Three:
In this stage, the Ebony Wakabi has hatched and needs to be fed 3 spawns worth of cobras before it is ready to go find the hand. Once it's been fed, you need to go to the wakabi, dig up the hand and put it in the statue.
Mechanical Issues:
1. The Ebony Wakabi can be killed during stage three. It isn't even difficult to do so; it has less health than most guardian/wiccan ents. Killing it resets the quest back to the very start of Stage Two and is nearly impossible to prevent in any meaningful sense. The wakabi isn't even loyal to the nomad camp, so Avenger can get in the way of defending the wakabi if it comes to that. Further, it is not possible to simply feed the wakabi up and muscle through stage three before the bird can be killed, as you need more cobras than spawn at once time. As such, there is always a window of at least an hour and a half in which the wakabi can be killed. The solution here is to change the third stage of the quest to be a puzzle, like the Hallifax side of the quest is, and not spawn an actual wakabi denizen until it's time for the wakabi to lead the way to the Hand.
Thematic Issues:
1. Denizen descriptions:
Noth is the leader of the Nomad camp. Here's what he looks like:
QUOTE
Noth Iborchi stands here, tall, proud, and occasionally picking his nose when no one is looking.
Noth is quite easily the most self-absorbed dracnari to have ever roamed the desert, and as such he is truly a sight to behold. He stands as far upright as he can, trying his hardest to look more important than anyone else nearby. His scales are an off-green sort of colour, more brown than anything else and hardened by endless years in the desert wind and sun. His snout is an incredibly odd shape, looking like it once got a piece hacked out of it by a blade of some sort, and judging by the way he messes with it, it has evidently given him plenty of sinus problems.
Noth is quite easily the most self-absorbed dracnari to have ever roamed the desert, and as such he is truly a sight to behold. He stands as far upright as he can, trying his hardest to look more important than anyone else nearby. His scales are an off-green sort of colour, more brown than anything else and hardened by endless years in the desert wind and sun. His snout is an incredibly odd shape, looking like it once got a piece hacked out of it by a blade of some sort, and judging by the way he messes with it, it has evidently given him plenty of sinus problems.
Dracnari warriors and stablehands look like this:
QUOTE
A dracnari stablehand lingers here idly.
This dracnari stablehand appears to be no more than twelve or thirteen summers old. Beige robes ridden with holes hang from his lanky figure, exposing his frail limbs with each of his movements. Laziness seems to be getting the best of him, as he does little more than lounge about nonchalantly, leaving all the work that needs doing for the wakabi to be someone else's responsibility and making himself anything besides handy.
This dracnari stablehand appears to be no more than twelve or thirteen summers old. Beige robes ridden with holes hang from his lanky figure, exposing his frail limbs with each of his movements. Laziness seems to be getting the best of him, as he does little more than lounge about nonchalantly, leaving all the work that needs doing for the wakabi to be someone else's responsibility and making himself anything besides handy.
and this:
QUOTE
A dracnari warrior stands sentinel here, sabre in hand and doing his best to look fierce.
This warrior is doing a rather good job of looking incredibly competent, despite the fact he's not actually doing anything at all and this may indeed be wherein his success lies. Rather than bumbling about like the idiot he undoubtedly is, this dracnari stands incredibly still, his tattered armour resting on his broad figure and looking as though the slightest touch would send it crumbling to pieces. His muscles bulge every now and then as if they had a life - and an agenda - of their own, although it's quite apparent that even when presented with the opportunity, this warrior would be too dumb to make much use of them.
This warrior is doing a rather good job of looking incredibly competent, despite the fact he's not actually doing anything at all and this may indeed be wherein his success lies. Rather than bumbling about like the idiot he undoubtedly is, this dracnari stands incredibly still, his tattered armour resting on his broad figure and looking as though the slightest touch would send it crumbling to pieces. His muscles bulge every now and then as if they had a life - and an agenda - of their own, although it's quite apparent that even when presented with the opportunity, this warrior would be too dumb to make much use of them.
respectively. Ssaliro Xeth, in addition to living with a pair of harlots, looks like this:
QUOTE
Ssaliro Xeth is here, apparently trying to go unnoticed.
Ssaliro constantly fiddles with his hands, his beady dark eyes darting about as he carefully scrutinizes his surroundings. While someone has endowed this pathetic, frail dracnari with some very nice looking robes, he certainly does not exude the air of confidence that so many other well-off beings do. Rather, he looks constantly uncomfortable and as though he always has something to hide. A number of his pale green scales are peeling as though they were scabs and when Ssaliro isn't busy making himself unnoticeable, he's picking at one of his scales.
Ssaliro constantly fiddles with his hands, his beady dark eyes darting about as he carefully scrutinizes his surroundings. While someone has endowed this pathetic, frail dracnari with some very nice looking robes, he certainly does not exude the air of confidence that so many other well-off beings do. Rather, he looks constantly uncomfortable and as though he always has something to hide. A number of his pale green scales are peeling as though they were scabs and when Ssaliro isn't busy making himself unnoticeable, he's picking at one of his scales.
Teaka Iborachi occasionally does the room emote;
QUOTE
Teaka Iborchi squawks like a wakabi. Perhaps she's been around them a bit too long.
The only half-way competent person in the camp is Vanaka Rhiero, who looks like this:
QUOTE
Faded blue robes cling to Vanaka's svelte figure, battered and faded by the constant wear and tear of the desert. Although dracnari, Vanaka could probably pass for human were it not for patches of tan scales on her face, the stub of a tail she's sporting, and the fact she's completely bald. Despite her questionable heritage and lanky figure, Vanaka has an air to her that suggests she isn't likely to be someone who easily puts up with being antagonised and the way she eyes
Compare the lucidian:
QUOTE
Clad in hard crystalline armour of various rainbow hues, this warrior is a spectacle of elegance mixed with strength. His body is slightly translucent, and light reflects from his eyes in dazzling patterns. He wields a staff of dark crystal across his chest with both hands. He sternly caresses the surroundings for signs of alarm.
and trill:
QUOTE
The wings of this tall trill surround his entire body, which is covered in lightweight armor. From his appearance, it looks as if he is no stranger to battle, and will fight well to protect his allies.
and their leader, J'hal'ck Taroch:
QUOTE
Wearing a crimson colored military uniform with golden tassels, J'hal'ck is the leader of the lucidian's small but immensely dedicated fighting force. On his hip, an elaborate crystal sword hangs attached to a belt sash at his waist. His vest and coat are made of fine velvet and embroidered with many geometric designs. His features are very stern and commanding, and he has the presence of a true leader.
who are described as being universally better than the dracnari nomads. It seems to me that whoever designed these areas specifically went out of their way to describe the Mesa Compound as being superior to the Dracnari nomads in every aspect, from training to equipment to personality to hygine. That may have been acceptable when Gaudiguch and Hallifax were non-playable factions, but now that they are playable, there should be some degree of parity between them, both mechanically and thematically.
Ileein2011-03-09 20:11:09
I think you're reading way too much into it. 
Enyalida2011-03-09 20:15:58
There are a few other important quests that work with the same functional issues. Glom's epic requires the Stewartsville baby, Seren requires that Tosha be done, and fae collected, and so on. Some of the issues do need fixing (take some of the random out), but some of them are perfectly fine as is, like the harlot thing.
It makes sense to me that military Trills and Lucidians who are invading the desert would be better trained and more hygienic then the aboriginal nomads. Anyways, isn't Gaudi's big thing insanity, and not caring about the things you brought up about their appearance?
It makes sense to me that military Trills and Lucidians who are invading the desert would be better trained and more hygienic then the aboriginal nomads. Anyways, isn't Gaudi's big thing insanity, and not caring about the things you brought up about their appearance?
Unknown2011-03-09 20:16:11
Like I said, it's probably not intentional at all. Whoever designed the quests way back when just had their favorites, and just didn't like the dracnari nomads, or thought they were supposed to be "backwards" or something to contrast with the Science! that the mesa gets. If it had turned out that the Hallifax end of the quest was getting the short end of the stick here, I'd turn up and point out how cheesy (and they are rather cheesy) their descriptions are in that post.
E:
The Glom-needing-that-specific-baby thing is another point that needs fixed. There should be a neutral baby for them to snatch that can't be locked down by their enemies. And the harlot thing is just a pet peeve, really.
The nomad camp is a military camp. They're the descendants of General Gorob Iborchi's Templar expeditionary force to go find the Hand. The fact that they're nomads is supposedly a strategic thing.
Gaudi's big thing is not insanity, or dressing like a slob. Just no. That's like saying that Serenwilde's big thing is snuggling and petting bunnies.
E:
QUOTE (Enyalida @ Mar 9 2011, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There are a few other important quests that work with the same functional issues. Glom's epic requires the Stewartsville baby, Seren requires that Tosha be done, and fae collected, and so on. Some of the issues do need fixing (take some of the random out), but some of them are perfectly fine as is, like the harlot thing.
It makes sense to me that military Trills and Lucidians who are invading the desert would be better trained and more hygienic then the aboriginal nomads. Anyways, isn't Gaudi's big thing insanity, and not caring about the things you brought up about their appearance?
It makes sense to me that military Trills and Lucidians who are invading the desert would be better trained and more hygienic then the aboriginal nomads. Anyways, isn't Gaudi's big thing insanity, and not caring about the things you brought up about their appearance?
The Glom-needing-that-specific-baby thing is another point that needs fixed. There should be a neutral baby for them to snatch that can't be locked down by their enemies. And the harlot thing is just a pet peeve, really.
The nomad camp is a military camp. They're the descendants of General Gorob Iborchi's Templar expeditionary force to go find the Hand. The fact that they're nomads is supposedly a strategic thing.
Gaudi's big thing is not insanity, or dressing like a slob. Just no. That's like saying that Serenwilde's big thing is snuggling and petting bunnies.
Everiine2011-03-09 20:24:08
I believe you have a point about the numerous ways the Gaudiguch quest can be sabotaged so that it actually reverts. Of course, the Mesa quest can be sabotaged: you can kill all the sandojin, kill all the cobras, kill all the lucidians, or do the mirror Dracnari do-hickey. However, all of these only delay the quest--your progress is not lost.
I think though that you go overboard in some things. The harlots should not be a problem. Literally everywhere in the game, if you give an item to a denizen that is not a quest denizen, it will keep it. And if you, in your scientific/metaphysical/spiritual pursuit, give a valuable item to a harlot, well, you don't deserve to get it back
. Nor do I think hostile wakabis are an issue, as they are weak enough to be a nuisance at best (unless you are super young, in which case, out of the desert and back to your chores! 
)
I also agree that you are reading too much into the descriptions of the denizens involved. You are comparing the scientists of an established, research-oriented, permanent station with wandering nomads. Their descriptions match who they are. Personally, I think the nomads fit extremely well with the Gaudiguch character.
I think though that you go overboard in some things. The harlots should not be a problem. Literally everywhere in the game, if you give an item to a denizen that is not a quest denizen, it will keep it. And if you, in your scientific/metaphysical/spiritual pursuit, give a valuable item to a harlot, well, you don't deserve to get it back
. Nor do I think hostile wakabis are an issue, as they are weak enough to be a nuisance at best (unless you are super young, in which case, out of the desert and back to your chores! )I also agree that you are reading too much into the descriptions of the denizens involved. You are comparing the scientists of an established, research-oriented, permanent station with wandering nomads. Their descriptions match who they are. Personally, I think the nomads fit extremely well with the Gaudiguch character.
Razenth2011-03-09 20:25:03
There is another baby. Whether he is usable for the Glom Epic, I don't know.
Ssaliss2011-03-09 20:28:20
I've heard tales that it is, but apparently it's easier to get someone to go into Stewartsville and get the baby by force than to hunt that baby down 
Razenth2011-03-09 20:34:21
Considering the obnoxiously long quest required to get him, I would believe that.
Kiradawea2011-03-09 20:41:22
You're not being critical enough towards the Mesa folks. Sure, the nomads have their idiosyncracies, but at least they aren't arrogant or pretentious. The dracnari have personality. The mesa could be replaced by a machine. It'd have more personality and a greater sense of humour, and still be able to handle two tasks at once.
But I do agree that the chick should be hidden. Maybe moving the note to outside Dairuchi, though I've snuck in there many times as an enemy. But except for that, there really is no need for any changes. The quests should not be carbon copies of one another, and the problems pointed to are easily enough bypassed. Remember that Gila lizards are easier than Sandojin, which is far more an advantage in favour of the Gaudi side than there being harlots by Xeth.
And honestly really. Wakabi do not break shields. Sandworms are a much bigger concern really.
But I do agree that the chick should be hidden. Maybe moving the note to outside Dairuchi, though I've snuck in there many times as an enemy. But except for that, there really is no need for any changes. The quests should not be carbon copies of one another, and the problems pointed to are easily enough bypassed. Remember that Gila lizards are easier than Sandojin, which is far more an advantage in favour of the Gaudi side than there being harlots by Xeth.
And honestly really. Wakabi do not break shields. Sandworms are a much bigger concern really.
Unknown2011-03-09 21:46:53
Having done the quest, and having seen the stupidity with the Wakabi, the two big issues that need fixing, as mentioned above are-
The Dairuchi stop over as part of the statue building segment. It is noteable even against things such as the Stewartsville baby if only because it must be done over, and over, and over, and over again.
Even more importantly, the wakabi should not be killable, or a similar vulnerability (with similar quest resetting consequences) should be applied to the Hallifaxian side.
Even if both these things were done, Halli would still have it a bit easier, as brought up above. But these two are real glaring issues.
As for the description and flavor stuff, remember that looking smart isn't necessarily the same thing as being smart. Though I can see how that would sort of rankle OOCly, given the disparity. A face lift certainly couldn't hurt! That said, the mechanical things above are the worst of it, and what really needs changing.
Along with the Vortex layout.
Along with pyromancers.
Along with the other odd "lets arbitrarily kick gaudi in the teeth" crap that got fostered off on it when there was nobody to really defend it.
The Dairuchi stop over as part of the statue building segment. It is noteable even against things such as the Stewartsville baby if only because it must be done over, and over, and over, and over again.
Even more importantly, the wakabi should not be killable, or a similar vulnerability (with similar quest resetting consequences) should be applied to the Hallifaxian side.
Even if both these things were done, Halli would still have it a bit easier, as brought up above. But these two are real glaring issues.
As for the description and flavor stuff, remember that looking smart isn't necessarily the same thing as being smart. Though I can see how that would sort of rankle OOCly, given the disparity. A face lift certainly couldn't hurt! That said, the mechanical things above are the worst of it, and what really needs changing.
Along with the Vortex layout.
Along with pyromancers.
Along with the other odd "lets arbitrarily kick gaudi in the teeth" crap that got fostered off on it when there was nobody to really defend it.
Ilyssa2011-03-09 22:48:52
The tl;dr of this thread:
Bigger problems. Let's solve them elsewhere.
Bigger problems. Let's solve them elsewhere.
Razenth2011-03-09 22:50:51
Man, you Hallibirds seem to be pretty good about downplaying problems that help you. *FORUMRP*
Llesvelt2011-03-09 22:54:26
QUOTE (Razenth @ Mar 9 2011, 11:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Man, you Hallibirds seem to be pretty good about downplaying problems that help you. *FORUMRP*
*Flame, Flame, Drama*
Ilyssa2011-03-09 22:58:32
Anyone who had to do the Hallifaxian side would grimace at the thought of doing more work in the desert. Those who wouldn't are going to grief you in worse ways. If I wanted to sit here and pick at the Hallifax Quest I could also provide a very nice arguement.
Diamondais2011-03-09 23:01:18
QUOTE (Ilyssa @ Mar 9 2011, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anyone who had to do the Hallifaxian side would grimace at the thought of doing more work in the desert. Those who wouldn't are going to grief you in worse ways. If I wanted to sit here and pick at the Hallifax Quest I could also provide a very nice arguement.
I've done both many times, I would prefer the Hallifax version over the Gauidguch one. Less chance of griefing.
Ileein2011-03-09 23:15:24
Sure, make the wakabi invincible and have it just run away and come back a little later if you want. I can't say I've personally seen much quest-griefing on either side, really. :/ Maybe I've just been fortunate.
Ytran2011-03-09 23:28:22
QUOTE (Greleag @ Mar 9 2011, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mechanical Issues:
2. Stage One of the Hallifax side of the Hand quest requires that the sandojin be slain and turned in. This directly prevents Stage One of the Gaudiguch side of the quest from progressing, as the Gaudiguch side requires that there be live sandojin.
Would doing the Gaudiguch side not prevent the Hallifax side from being done as well, since the sandojins are not available to be killed? I don't see the problem here.
3. Ssaliro Xeth is in the same room as 2 dracnari harlots. These harlots, if given an item (say a gila lizard) will not give it back unless begged from or slain. The fix here would be to move them in with Noth, or to make them return items given to them.
GIVE LIZARD TO XETH?
Summary of Stage Two:
Once the statue is completed, the dracnari begin breeding a wakabi to find the Hand. Teaka Iborchi is in charge of that and instructs you to feed cobras to wild wakabi in the desert. The wakabi, once fed, will lay a random egg, either pink, blue, orange, yellow or speckled. Teaka will request that you bring her a specific colour of egg at random. Turning in an egg that has not been requested destroys it. Once 30 of the requested eggs have been turned in, a wakabi chick is born and we move onto Stage Three.
Mechanical Issues:
6. If Teaka is given an egg while the Mesa is attacking the Nomad camp, she will refuse to accept it, but not return it to the player nor count it towards the total eggs required. It has to be begged off of her. This is not the case for Indiau.
This should probably be fixed. The general person in the Mesa (I forget his name) also doesn't return items, but he's not part of the quest. I know the lucidian researchers return stuff during the fighting, but I don't know about Indiau. So I'd support fixing it up for Teaka and any other dens it might affect.
Thematic Issues:
1. Denizen descriptions:
I don't really understand what the denizen descriptions have to do with the Hand quests.
2. Stage One of the Hallifax side of the Hand quest requires that the sandojin be slain and turned in. This directly prevents Stage One of the Gaudiguch side of the quest from progressing, as the Gaudiguch side requires that there be live sandojin.
Would doing the Gaudiguch side not prevent the Hallifax side from being done as well, since the sandojins are not available to be killed? I don't see the problem here.
3. Ssaliro Xeth is in the same room as 2 dracnari harlots. These harlots, if given an item (say a gila lizard) will not give it back unless begged from or slain. The fix here would be to move them in with Noth, or to make them return items given to them.
GIVE LIZARD TO XETH?
Summary of Stage Two:
Once the statue is completed, the dracnari begin breeding a wakabi to find the Hand. Teaka Iborchi is in charge of that and instructs you to feed cobras to wild wakabi in the desert. The wakabi, once fed, will lay a random egg, either pink, blue, orange, yellow or speckled. Teaka will request that you bring her a specific colour of egg at random. Turning in an egg that has not been requested destroys it. Once 30 of the requested eggs have been turned in, a wakabi chick is born and we move onto Stage Three.
Mechanical Issues:
6. If Teaka is given an egg while the Mesa is attacking the Nomad camp, she will refuse to accept it, but not return it to the player nor count it towards the total eggs required. It has to be begged off of her. This is not the case for Indiau.
This should probably be fixed. The general person in the Mesa (I forget his name) also doesn't return items, but he's not part of the quest. I know the lucidian researchers return stuff during the fighting, but I don't know about Indiau. So I'd support fixing it up for Teaka and any other dens it might affect.
Thematic Issues:
1. Denizen descriptions:
I don't really understand what the denizen descriptions have to do with the Hand quests.
My thoughts on the stuff I have an opinion on.
QUOTE (Ileein @ Mar 9 2011, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't say I've personally seen much quest-griefing on either side, really. :/ Maybe I've just been fortunate.
Same, though I've not been involved with too much, so YMMV. While doing the quest twice in three days or so, only once did anyone really do anything to mess with anything. Some people I've never heard of wiped out the Mesa dens once and demesned it up, but that was all.
Unknown2011-03-09 23:50:21
QUOTE
Would doing the Gaudiguch side not prevent the Hallifax side from being done as well, since the sandojins are not available to be killed? I don't see the problem here.
The Gaudiguch side requires that you remove 1 sandojin per 10 gila killed. There's no incentive (besides wanting to screw over the Halli side) to kill any sandojin, since you need them alive. The Halli side progresses at a rate directly proportional to the number of sandojin you kill per unit time, so you're incentivized to kill as many sandojin as possible while doing the Hallifax side.
QUOTE
I don't really understand what the denizen descriptions have to do with the Hand quests
They don't have to do with the quest in and of itself, but they do highlight a discrepency between the two factions. Imagine if there were an area where there were npc Hartstone and npc Blacktalon both competeing over something and the Blacktalon druids were described as being shifty, infighting savages that constantly bleched at eachother and the Hartstone druids were noble, wise, brave and graceful defenders of nature that were lead by a "True Leader" who everyone loves.
Seraku2011-03-09 23:54:02
I agree with iytha a lot on this subject. Back before gaudi I tried the hand quest multiple times only to be screwed up one way or the other. My major gripe is the dairuchi part and the fact that the chick is very vulnerable. As for the flavor parts, the nomads could use a little sprucing up, though think of it this way. Trill and lucidians must hate going into the desert for such long periods of time. No doubt they'd be miserable with the heat.
Xanfinro2011-03-10 00:04:14
It's so unfair that the area for the hand quests is located right outside of Gaudi's front door, but Hallifaxians have to walk halfway around the world every time they want to start the quest. Clearly, the Skarch needs to be moved so that everything can be perfectly balanced.
