All right, here's my thoughts on the entire book:

Overall:
-While it's great, the book was pretty much like AFFC where it builds up for epic things but then stops right as it's supposed to get awesome. I swear to god Winds of Winter better deliver.
-Also the book sure loved its weddings. Ramsay/"Arya", Karstark/Magnar, etc.

Characters:

Arya: Lol, Arya was blind for about one chapter, which amuses me seems it was a big cliffhanger last book, but I'm getting pumped to see that she seems to be "skipping" levels in her Faceless Man training, and she's getting pretty badass. I also thought that way she did her first assassination was pretty clever. Also she wargs cats now? Only two chapters though, meh :/

Tyrion: Always so chatty and clever, though his chapters were all about him being emo about murdering his father (for good reason I guess) and traveling down the river to meet Dany, which he didn't even manage to do. Oh and his friendship with Penny. I loved the lines about rubbing a dwarf's head though, I laughed at his response. Oh also, man he sure will owe a lot to the Second Sons at the end of this, so I feel like he's going to have Dany kill Ben Plumm somehow, especially considering how he's urging the group to turn their cloaks again.

Quentyn: I don't even know what the point of this guy was, especially given that he dies at the end. While I found the chapter title where he died amusing, I don't think there was much point to this character aside from giving a bit more backstory to Dorne.

Aegon: Well well, the surprise Targaryen. I remember how someone mentioned the mummer's dragon, so I guess that's Aegon. I think it's kind of weird that GRRM decided to add in this guy so "late" in the book, so I can't help but feel that this guy is some sort of red herring, though at this point, I don't doubt that he is actually the son who was supposed to have been murdered. But he's totally gonna die when he goes for Storm's End somehow. I bet he's gonna be used to feed the Stone Dragon as the blood of a king by the red guys. Maybe. Jon Connington was an interesting guy though, but he's pretty dumb in not cutting off the fingers to try and stave off the grey scale.

Dany: Ehhh, I wasn't as impressed with her chapters until right at the end, when she learned how to ride Drogon. Then that was probably one of my favourite chapters in the book. The ones before that can be summed up as thus: I <3 DAARIO BUT HSHDSDHDAR HAS CONNECTIONS. I remember reading from GRRM's blog that he was having trouble writing Dany's chapters in Meereen, but if his solution to this was to have her run away from everything, then wtf man.

Jon: Well, I won't lie that he was one of my favourite characters, and while his chapters weren't all that exciting from an epic standpoint, I liked how he was beginning to patch things up with the wildlings and set things up (fill more forts, get more men, etc) so he can better protect the realm from the Others, though they were going to run out of food. Unfortunately, he ran got a bad case of the betrayal stabs, and probably died. I think it's great that the other men of the Watch did it not because of any personal gain (what it looks like anyway) but because Jon was doing things differently from how the others would have done it. I think the straw that broke the camel's back was when Jon messed up and announced that he was going to deal with Ramsay, thereby involving himself with the game of thrones. You could argue that he already started doing so much earlier, but this was when he made it obvious.

Like what others said, I don't think he's permanently dead either, Melisandre is there (who has rezz powers like Thoros, probably even stronger ones), and while she did in fact warn him repeatedly that something like this was going to happen, her staying was probably so she can pull him back, especially given that whenever she tried looking for Stannis (Azor Azai), all the flames kept revealing was Jon or some such. Personally, I think he did what Varamyr did and warged into Ghost right at the end, so maybe Melisandre can pull him out of Ghost and put him back into his old body later on. Though her just straight up rezzing him would make sense too. Plus side, this also frees his oaths from the Night's Watch so that ought to be pretty cool, and if you consider that Jon is "ice" (given he's a stark, night's watch, cool demeanor, etc), then Melisandre infusing him with fire, being set up to meet Dany, owning a valyrian steel sword, etc would infuse him with "fire" as well. I think that's pretty cool anyway.

Tyrion is, as always, awesome. It's so nice to see someone get along without being 'rawr smash.' He manages it by thinking (even if he does make silly mistakes sometimes) and sweet-talking his way through things. Also, AAARGH SO CLOSE AND YET SO FAR. Penny is kind of adorable, but her naivete does grate at times, as perhaps it's meant to do. She reminds me a bit of early-Sansa.

Speaking of which, I'm looking forward to see just how Sansa is dealing with "Lord" Littlefinger in the Vale.

Bran... agghghgh Bran, please tell he doesn't have to sit on the weirwood throne and have roots grow through him just yet in order to use his powers? I'm hoping, based on my reading, that you don't have to become Creepy Man One With The Weirwoods until the end of your life, and that he'll actually meet up in person with his family at some point. Kid's gone through too much to end up sitting under a hollow hill far north of the Wall for the rest of his life, even if he can see anywhere at any time. On which note, after going back and reading through scenes with weirwoods, I can't help wondering if Bran has managed to get across something via the weirwoods on a few occasions. After all, Ned obviously heard something, and there's a praying scene at one point where Arya (I think) seems to hear her name from the weirwood.

As for Theon: ugh. I didn't think I'd stop hating him after the past few books, no matter what happened to him, but even the hugest dick in Westeros looks pitiful in comparison to Ramsay Snowbolton. Nobody deserves that. I smiled despite myself when he perked up a bit and remembered his name, and d'awwed when he met his sister again. I did not want to do that. I still hate Theon in my head. I just can't manage to put any effort into it anymore.

Dany, you idiot. Most of your decisions this time around have been monumentally stupid. Quite aside from sitting in Meereen the entire time when anyone with half an eye can see it's just draining you and your strength, I spent half of your chapters facepalming. There's no way marrying whats-his-face could possibly go wrong. Also, did anyone else seriously not trust the Green Grace? I suspect her of being the Harpy, personally. Everyone kept saying "omg it's whats-his-face," but the thing everyone forgets about the Harpy of Ghis is that she's female.

Barristan, you amazing BAMF. That is all I have to say about that.

Surprisingly, I also warmed up to Melisandre (teehee) after her viewpoint. She does seem genuinely well-meaning, if quite off the mark on several points. So that makes two characters I did not used to like that I at least now can tolerate, so good for GRRM.

I missed Sam. Poor Sam. I also really want to see some more about the inner workings of the Citadel. Also: the Death of Dragons/Fire and Blood, the book locked in the deepest vault of the Citadel (mentioned by Tyrion's thoughts). Pertinent? I can't help but think so. Remember that the assassin from the epilogue of AFFC stole a key that opens any door at the citadel. He was quite possibly a Faceless Man, too, which makes me wonder.

All in all, I quite liked the book. There wasn't really a climax, admittedly-- perhaps the 100 manuscript pages that were kept over for the Winds of Winter contain something along those lines?

Ah nuts, forgot about Bran and Theon.

Bran: He had too few chapters, I think. I did like how they showed what his powers are going to be one once he fully masters everything, being somewhat omniscient, and I do believe he was talking to Theon in Winterfell, which makes him super creepy. I think being able to see everything in trees, and traveling back in time to see past events is super cool though, and I feel like the scene where he got to see various Starks doing things was very important. Like I think the girl sparring with sticks against the boy was Lyanna vs. Brandon, and so on. Poor Hodor though, Bran broke him in.

Theon: I loved how each of his chapter titles slowly evolved as he was redeemed. I honestly felt bad for the guy towards the end, so it lifted me up to see him make it to his sister. Even if he is very very crazy. I think his chapters were one of my favourites in the book too. I also felt bad when he had to...help Ramsay out with bedding his wife. Reek rhymes with weak.

Speaking of Theon saving "Arya": I'm pretty sure Ramsay's note was half lying, I believe that he did catch Mance, but I don't think he smashed Stannis, or if he did, Stannis himself got away along with Asha, Theon, Jeyne, and the braavosi banker, and whoever else. Since I'm pretty sure Jon's warning got to them in time.

I was pretty pissed off at Jon's "death", but I honestly don't think he'll stay dead. If he does really die, then it's going to be a hell of a Shoot the Shaggy Dog story, and will probably induce WTF-ing and fans facepalming in droves. *hope*

I don’t know why it didn’t click immediately with me who Abel and his ladies were. It was not until they came on Theon in the godswood that I made the connection. I am unimpressed by his acts toward redemption. A clean death in exchange for his brief act of heroism would have suited more. Instead he’ll stick around as yet another high born but useless hostage for Stannis, which will only wrankle the North. Wex is with Davos and has shared the secret of Bran and Rickon, making Theon both unwanted by and useless to everyone - why is he still around?

I do not know what to make of the letter. Obviously it is at least partially fake. The party coming up from Deepwood will have warned Stannis of the Arnolf Karstark trap before it had the chance to close. Theon and Jeyne Poole had reached Stannis, who was snowed in at some small village. How would Theon and Jeyne, frozen, starved, crippled, and beaten, have evaded capture if that camp was sacked?

At first I wondered if it had come from Ramsay at all, maybe it was a final test from Jon’s black brothers, to see if he would do the right thing, maybe a trap. Clydas was nervous delivering the letter, Bowen Marsh and Othel Yarwyck left the hall, the scene with the giant just seemed to ill timed to have been coincidence, some of the phrasing seemed odd for a Northerner. Unless Melisandre betrayed herself, the bit about Mance wasn’t known to anyone on the Wall though.

So either the letter was from Meliasandre herself, perhaps the spark in the powder keg that was castle black, part of her plan to somehow save Jon, who she now thinks is the real Azur A’hai (Why has she never seen Danaerys in her flames, or Moroqqo seen Jon?), with her intending to rebirth him or the letter was indeed from Ramsay. I figure Ramsay would have been left behind to garrison Winterfell and torture Manse and the spearwives while Roose Bolten rode out with his squabbling lords to meet Stannis in the most epic of snowball fights.

If it is true and Stannis is dead, then Roose must also be dead - why would the letter demanding the royal hostages come from Ramsay and not Roose otherwise. So maybe the bastard is just holding some kind of court of terror at Winterfell, he would have had to kill Roose’s wife, as well as she was preggo with a trueborn son, which would have upset any lingering Freys... mutter. Too much to speculate.

As always there were a lot of slivers of backstory.

I always thought come-into-my-castle was Westerosi slang for “playing doctor,” nice to have it clarified that it was a real game.

Slightly disappointed that the Doom of Valyria would turn out to be so mundane. I suppose it’s something of a comment on the perception of magic versus understanding of the natural world.

At least he resolved that Jon’s mother was not Ashara Dayne, though he threw in random fisherwoman’s daughter instead... I will be dismissing that.


Cersei’s shaming was amazingly vivid, that chapter could have gone on longer. As much as I love to hate Qyburn and Gregor Clegane, I was waiting for the return of the even more monstrous Mountain. I’m a little surprised that Kevan Lannister accepted either of them though. I would have figured he’d get rid of them both - Tywin would have.

It is a little bit annoying that the only justice served was to Janos Slynt, and so early on.

Busy year for Tyrion eh?

Daenerys... I don’t know. The same as Robert, she seems to be more fit to conquer than to rule. As agonizing as it was to watch her flounder, if it was going to happen, I am glad it happened in the East. She will have learned some hard lessons, and her only escape from the mire of trying to rule Slaver’s bay really was to physically escape. She found herself once in the Dothraki Sea, it seems the right place for her to find herself again. She’ll return to Meereen leading Jhaqo’s khalasar from dragon-back and burn it. What bugs me most is that it looks like we’re going to have to go to Pentos now too before Westeros. Le sigh.

I’m sad for Jojen and Meera. I had thought there was more for Jojen than just delivering Bran to the singers. It seems as though they are now stuck there forever. Bran’s position seems set. He will become one with/of the old gods. It is also sad that here he is, being given a connection to power and the world that exceeds pretty much anyone else’s in the series... and somehow it still pales in comparison to the knighthood that Bran the Broken will never have. Maybe he will mate with Meera and make little three-eyed frog eaters before the end.

Dorne is my least favorite faction in the series. They appear to be playing the long game, but to what end, I have no idea. I get the feeling they are being deliberately kept out of anything too potentially ruinous simply so they can be around at the end to raise their banners for one of the Targaryens. They are uninteresting.

I'm sure people want to discuss their own theories too..

Well it's the same for Bran, and the same for Varamyr... the gift works on anything, apparently, just with an affinity to one beast. Do you think it is cheating though? I'm sure the kindly man knows. I also lament only two chapters. I think I misunderstood something in the last book, because I thought that she had resolved on keeping Arya, but in progressing with the faceless men she is moving further away.


You're probably right. I like Tyrion better when he's not trying scheming though. I found his shielding Penny and saving Jorah to be endearing, the same when he was marveling at the ruins along the Rhoyne.


My concern with 'Jon will be back' is that no one else important has died in a while though... the author very well established what happens when a skinchanger dies so his consciousness will not be completely gone, as yet, but still... I am not so sure.

Oh hey, no one mentioned Jaime yet. What do we think? Brienne wouldn't really have lead him to his death at the hands of Catelyn-Corpse would she?

Me too. We didn't even get a hint of what's happening in the Vale, did we?

Ooo, good idea about the Green Grace, I hadn't thought of that. I figured it was just the perfumed seneschal... as, unless I missed that (I raced through, I admit), I didn't catch his betrayal, and Qaithe has not been wrong.


Agree, agree, agree about Barristan, Melisandre, and missing Sam. I would have liked to see more of the citadel too.

Re: Perfumed Seneschal: if you recall, the name of the ship Tyrion et al take translates as "fragrant steward," or, if one uses the right translations, "perfumed seneschal." As always, the people interpreting the prophecy get it ass-backwards. A theme, that.

Anyone else think that Victarion's chapters were pretty badass? I actually want to see that guy succeed Jon's death caught me by surprise, but to be honest... him coming back would kind of ruin it for me, as much as I love him. Oh well. Dany as just fail at every turn... she lost sight of herself and went from being a badass to a little simpering Barbie who wants her Ken. Also: Aegon. Yes! As late as he came in the series, I believe that Aegon is what's needed. I would much rather have him rule than Dany, tbh, even though we currently know little of him.

Aegon's shown worrying signs of silver-spoon syndrome: he knows he's destined to rule, and it's made him arrogant, much like Joffrey. If he could be turned from that path and taught humility, I agree, he might do well. But he has certain strengths Dany does not, namely that he has been taught from birth to rule, and she hasn't, though she is (or was) working on gaining the experience necessary.

I agree that she lost sight of herself sitting in Meereen. Slaver's Bay has that effect on people, and it's very purposeful. Hopefully now that she's got a dragon again she can fix herself back on her goals. Also, thank god whats-his-face is out of the way.

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! Can anyone guess why Wyman Manderly really enjoyed those meat pies? If you're not sure, go back and look at the song he requests while eating them!

I never catch things like this, well spotted. But why would she need to beware? Jorah remains devoted to her, despite sending him away, she knows this. That red priest seemed to have earnest intent. Ilyrio has always been shady but regardless of his other motivations, he does want to see Dany come into her kingdom... Tyrion is his pawn in this, and he himself does not seem to want to do anything but reach her and offer whatever help he can give. I am not sure where the implied danger is here.


Are you saying he ate the Freys or something :/

Yeah, the gift's great and all, but it seems like a bit of an ass pull for Arya considering she hasn't done much true warging at all until this. I know she got along with cats, but she didn't really seem to love them as much as she did Nymeria. And she did resolve to keep being Arya, but it seems her training's designed to keep pushing her away from that, so what I think a big theme of the next book would be is this internal conflict between being a neutral assassin and Arya of Winterfell. I bet she'll have to kill Jon (again?, maybe Sansa) or some other person she likes.

I actually prefer Tyrion when he's scheming, since he's always stated that's pretty much all he has at this point. His scenes are great though.

Well, I still think he will be back, but I don't think he'll be 100% Jon Snow, considering that with Beric's rezzing, he loses a bit of himself each time it happens. Maybe whatever he loses will be important, like his affinity with Ghost, or maybe it will just give Melisandre enough room to work her red magic and truly make him Azor Azai. Jon's dead eitherway, and while I'd prefer him to come back, simply because he still has so many loose threads, it would also be interesting to see how the story progresses without what seems to be one of the entire story's "heroes".

Yeah, Jaime's probably not dead. I think he was kidnapped or whatever, but it's too vague to tell. Maybe Brienne interceded on his behalf somehow.



I didn't catch that at all, nice.



Victarion was pretty badass, especially given his "I've got two gods behind me" talk. I really do think Jon will come back, there's way too much he still has to do with the overall story, along with other mysteries. Still think Aegon will meet a messy end.



Yeah, that's why I think Aegon's not gonna last very long, tbh it seems like he's just fodder for when Dany shapes up. He's gonna mess up when he personally goes for Storm's End, or Dany's dragons are gonna eat him, but I don't think he's going to get a good ending.

Dany definitely lost herself in Meereen, but her running away just struck me as pretty childish I guess.

And mm, Frey pie, Manderly was all sorts of blubbery badass in this book.

Neither am I. I suspect Quaithe knows what she's talking about, though, so... *shrug*

And yes. Yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting.

I love me some Victarion, talk about the definition of a B.A.M.F. I still don't think he's going to get Dany, but I'm rooting for him. The girl that Dany sees is just going to ruin her, I think it is one of the three treasons. Unleash the dragons, a bunch of wooden boats in a harbor, make the Red God notice you even though she doesn't believe in him.

Aegon... I can see this ending badly, though he did listen to Tyrion's advice which I think gives him the best chance to win. Aegon has the best claim to the throne and has the badass Golden Company with him, it's just he is too headstrong and reckless. Though, Varys > Littlefinger, so I have to think Aegon will be pretty important.

Speaking of Varys, the epilogue was one of my favorite parts of the whole book. The Spider is dangerous.

Also, Barristan and Melisandre's few chapters, along with Victarion, really made the book for me. Most of everything else was fluff or disappointing, i.e. anything Daenerys did, Bran, Jon, Quentyn (rofl... so pointless), Jaime's one chapter. Tyrion shined as always though.

Oberyn died in book 3. You mean Quentin

Okay your turn:



Yeah I figured Abel was Mance early on when they mentioned the bard and his -six- dancers. It was about the only thing I caught the first time around :/ I think Theon's role is pretty much done, he's gotten his redemption, so I feel like he's going to meet Ramsay soon and...things will be messy. Also apparently Ramsay chopped off his third leg, that must be unpleasant.



Yeah the letter is definitely at least partially fake. My understanding is that the Braavosi banker ran into Theon and co. and scooped them up, then they all went to Stannis' group and told Stannis what was going on. Remember that Theon also knows about the trap, so Stannis definitely should know what's going on.

I am pretty positive that it's Ramsay who wrote the letter, it seems uncharacteristic of Bowen and others to do such a thing, in my opinion. What I think happened is that something happened with Roose's group, which is why Ramsay had to speak on behalf of his father, I don't recall how he signed the letter, but if he signed it "Lord of Dreadfort", then perhaps Roose did die somehow?



Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon is still holding strong IMO.



Heh, Robert Strong. His battle on behalf of Cersei should be pretty epic, especially since he's a silent killing machine now.

Speaking of Kevan: I feel bad that he had to die because he was going to patch things up in the realm. Varys murdered him because he was sending Cersei away, and with him gone, Cersei can keep on making a mess of everything, thereby making things easier for Aegon.



But it was so very sweet, especially his "oh crap I'm sorry I'll go" right at the end.



He's got a new GF now, poor Crunch and Pretty though



Yeah, I agree that it's best that she screw things up in the East before going to Westeros, but I still maintain that running away from everything is hella lame. Yeah, going to Pentos will be yet another detour, but I want to see how Tyrion and co. gets her there, plus I wonder if the Tattered Prince will still be involved?



Man, Bran is totally like 9 and Meera is 15 or so.

I agree though, that while he has the beginnings of phenomenal cosmic power, he will still be stuck in an itty bitty living space, and by that, I mean he can't walk and will have a freaking TREE grow on him. Still though, poor Hodor.

I'd like to see how he helps influence events down south though.



I actually liked Dorne's political scheming second to Littlefinger's, I feel bad for Doran that all his plans keep getting foiled/changed, so I figure they're due for something to go right.

He signed it something like "TRUE LORD OF WINTERFELL." Which is a dick move and makes me want to stab him again.

On which note, "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" takes on an interesting aspect with the return of sorcery and the eerie to the world, despite all of the Citadel's efforts. Is there a reason for that, other than they're the family that rules the North and things will politically go to pot if they bugger off?

I think it's just a saying myself, but if you think of how Bran is now technically everywhere, you could argue that not only is there a Stark in Winterfell, there is a Stark just about everywhere with freaky face trees.

Soooo many memes possible there. Also, unfortunate implications.

Bran's in your bonsai, watching you incest

Ahaha. <3