Problem:
The powers system is unnecessarily stifling towards demigods (a large population of the playerbase at this point), who have less options (RP/PVP) available to them compared to ascendants. For endgame content, their choices are limited and maybe even discouraging. Vernal demigods suffer the same issue, to a lesser degree.

Potential Solutions:


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Please make your suggestions and discuss.

My main thoughts when I suggested this was to give demigods more choices while still retaining the special nature of Ascendants (cause let's face it, if you're the one person a year to get TA or if your org gets behind you and spends at least 2m power to raise you, you're supposed to have something special). I can think of a few ways to make that happen myself:

• The simplest suggestion: Just make all Ascendant powers available to Demigods. I'm not too keen on this idea myself, since you can get to 100 weight as a Demi with the manna, which is just 50 weight away from a non-manna'd Ascendant, so Ascendants lose much of their special-ness.
  
• Open up all Ascendant powers to Demigods, but only allow them to pick one at normal weight. This could possibly be a very good compromise, giving Demigods far more options but still keeping Ascendants far more flexible.
  
• Open up all Ascendant powers to Demigods, but have them cost double weight. This is, if you ask me, the best solution: Many Ascendant powers are already rather heavy-weighted, meaning you'll see few normal Demigods running around with all the cool Ascendant powers.
  
• Have Demigods "bond" themselves with a Domoth, meaning they can only choose powers from that Domoth. This would severely limit their choices, meaning Ascendants are still very much special.
  

To pre-empt an argument I can see happening: I don't think that raising the essence-cost to buy will actually accomplish anything. Essence is a one-time cost, while weight is a permanent investment, so just upping the cost will only delay the inevitable.

EDIT: And to pre-empt another argument: While I wouldn't mind a Demigod with a Seal being able to pick powers from that Domoth as if they were bonded to it, having it as the only option to access Ascendant powers would mean that the vast majority of the playerbase would never be able to access those powers. Sure, there is potential for seven new people to access them every year, but some people win seals several times.

I'm behind "Just make all Ascendant powers available to Demigods.", limited by weights.

Even after the forced removal of a good deal of Ascendants, just take a look at what fraction of them is dormant. It's frighteningly high, and such a special mechanic for a less than double-digit amount of people in the game does not make everyone happy.

The problem occurs in the fact that the chance for Ascendant powers being available to the general Demigod populace is very slim (else they wouldn't be called Ascendant powers) according to some higher ups. If I understand correctly, they're not opposed to altogether new toys catered specifically to the Demigod populace in three general categories: flavour, utility, and combat to appease anyone from the combatants to the arpeers to the influencers and the crafters.

I'll have to dig out my wishlist again. I know I put it around here somewhere.

There could always be a special case with Vernal Demigods, which would either give all powers at normal weight (or only a 50% increase in weight), but if all powers became available to all Demigods at the same weight as Ascendants use, we'd pretty much reduce Ascendants to only being special in Domoths, which would make it far less interesting for orgs to put all that power into someone (not that there's much else to put power in at the moment, but...)

Vadi:

I'm behind "Just make all Ascendant powers available to Demigods.", limited by weights.

Even after the forced removal of a good deal of Ascendants, just take a look at what fraction of them is dormant. It's frighteningly high, and such a special mechanic for a less than double-digit amount of people in the game does not make everyone happy.

This.

Also the manna item is a special auction only item, you can't use that to balance weights as its even rarer than ascendants and its quite possible it will stay that way.

The weights are high enough that honestly most demigods will have the choice of stats or special powers (and most would likely pick stats), not both. Which seems fine to me, ascendants are still able to have both the stats and cool powers.

Xiel:

...the chance for Ascendant powers being available to the general Demigod populace is very slim...

Feels like that little bit needs to be reiterated to encourage thought outside of 'just make Ascendant powers generally available' on the high likelihood that it won't go through.

I thought manna was released as a general artifact? If not, yeah, I agree you can strike that argument from my list.

I agree with Vadi. I feel Ascendants really don't lose much of their specialness even with this solution, because they still have all the domoth benefits (which should never be underestimated), and they do still have a higher weight.


However, if as Xiel says we do need new things because ascendant powers are forever special, what about demigod group combat benefits? The idea floating in my head was something akin to the divine formations in the Elder Wars, which seem like a *huge* part of the plot but have nothing even close to a reflection in our game mechanics. Functionally, they could be very similar to coven abilities (in fact, you could probably even cut-and-paste a large chunk of the code), where all of the demigods must be in the room of a formation leader who is the only one capable of executing or activating the ability. There are some cool things mentioned in the Elder Wars which would be good ideas for powers, such as the four-person "hot and drop" bomb that temporarily ripped a hole in the planar distortion which was used by Fain on Vortex.

I think a large benefit of introducing group skills is that it would also incentivize orgs to help their members climb through the ranks of experience. Players would be less likely to be ignored at the bottom of the experience charts when raising them up to the top benefits not just those players, but each already-existing demigod they are allied with as well. There is currently a large enough pool of demigods that I think every org would have a chance to use the powers at least occasionally, and I think if done correctly it could add an interesting new dimension to group fights.



Also, personal issue here, but is there any chance that the weight on flavor powers can be reduced to zero, if not having at least some of them come free upon becoming demigod? As someone who likes both combat and roleplay, I find myself torn - Yes, entrance and teleport messages are cool, but can I really justify spending that weight when it could be going to increased stats or another combat benefit. The same thing with CustomZap; I'm fine with custom zap keeping it's high essence cost to keep down the number of messages the admins need to approve, but should it really cost double the weight of ChoiceZap when the two are functionally identical. If not, CustomZap should at least get to choose it's damage type, to give it a mechanical justification for costing twice the weight.

Ssaliss:

I thought manna was released as a general artifact? If not, yeah, I agree you can strike that argument from my list.

Nope, auction only still.

Realistically, since we're approaching the state where demigod is the expectation for combat, we have what is a bottom heavy system.

A whole bunch of people who will never see the other side of ascendance, and worse, have been nerfed and restricted while only getting to stare at the fun toys in the store window, like some 1950's movie orphan.

This may be an anathma to the vision, but ultimately, when those orphans help to support the game, it may not be the best long run situation.

Suggestions-

1) Make Divine Manna generally available. This is the easiest one, doesn't involve any radical changes or even introductions of new mechanics. It is there, just let us have it. :P On a side note, if this is auction only, I'm going to have a hard time typing while making a continuous rude gesture with one hand. :P

2) Let us buy weight with credits. Much like the above.

3) One of the above plus access to some ascendance stuff.

4) Some element of the above and having some artifact that lets demigods behave like ascendants for purposes of domothing and the like.


Edit- also, like Rathan said, the entrance/exit/teleport flavour stuff- why that costs weight at all is beyond me. It doesn't do anything, its just for fun. :( I don't feel that "choose between practical benefit and fun" is a choice that is doing anything positive for the situation.

Personally, I very much disagree with the notion of turning Demis into mini-Ascendants. Ascendants should be special; they should have more powers, more perks, more everything; otherwise, why would orgs sink all that power into them?

I'm leaning more and more towards my suggestion of bonding to a Domoth to unlock that Domoths powers for the Demi, or just allowing them access to a single Ascendant power to give them some diversity. That would allow the Ascendants a far broader spectrum of powers, while allowing Demigods to expand their choice of powers immensely.

I would prefer the "Bond with a single Domoth to unlock its powers" suggestion.

I feel that Vernal ascendents, being the chosen champions of an Org, should be special. This applies even more strongly for True Ascendents.

Honestly, for all practical purposes all three suggestions are the same idea reflected different ways. Most ascendant powers are so restrictive in weight that a demigod would be very hard-pressed to take more than one at a time. While you could make an argument that there is a difference on the grounds of ephemeral powers, most also have restrictive essence costs that would make it inefficient to buy them regularly.

The difference will come into play when Divine Manna becomes a regular artifact. And yes, I say when, not if. I think it's just a matter of time before it happens.

Oh, and good that you brought up Ephemeral powers, since I forgot to mention that in my post (even though I considered them). I feel Ascendant powers should be impossible to buy as Ephemeral for normal Demigods, although I could see them being bought as Ephemeral as Vernal Demigods.

I am about 90% sure the admin will not open ascendant powers to demigods, but maybe something domoth-related may be able to swing by.

Here's what I feel can be done:

1. Shorten the gap between demis/vernals/ascendants = weights is 100/125/150
2. Add more powers, combat/utility/RP
3. Review the costs/weight for the powers that currently exist
4. Add back in a lot of the old things demigods did have: increased stats (up to +2 for 1 stat) and improved regen, buyable as powers.

I feel like these 4 solutions will help a ton without actually touching the domoth power stuff.

The problem with not granting access to domoths is that many Ascendent powers simply go unused, because a org will never intentionally ascend a non-com. That mean none of the Beauty powers (except MAYBE illusions) will ever see any use, nor will a number of others.

Many things in Lusternia go unused: miniatures, order wars, etc.

That's not necessarily a key issue.

Sojiro:

4. Add back in a lot of the old things demigods did have: increased stats (up to +2 for 1 stat) ... buyable as powers.

Isn't this how it is now, with Titan stats along with purchasable demi stat powers?

Of course, I won't complain if you want to give me the extra +1 to everything for free.

Is it, I can't remember. I was under the impression things used to be +3 net from mortal to demi.