So now that the scroll of laurels (obscures player honors with text of your choosing) is available to all, there is some debate of what is and isn't appropriate to write in the 200 character limit, and how suitability might be determined. I suggested that maybe they should be regulated in the same way that the old zaps were, requiring admin approval before the message is implemented/approved... but I had the impression that my concerns were not really shared by the admin I spoke with. I'm wondering what others' thoughts on the subject are.

For me, the creepiest one is the girl claiming to be 11. It's just gross in the context of a game with a lot of adult content. There are several that shatter immersion, as Arix just pointed out in another thread. I've heard and had other complaints as well... it's hard to define a standard of what is 'okay' but many of the ones I've seen just seem inappropriate in some way or another. I don't exclude myself in this, I just threw something silly in while we were all making merry with them earlier. The artifact is feeling like a bad idea in general right now. Am I the only one that thinks so?

Keep in mind that the 11-year-old is engaged to be married, which is even more disturbing.

It needs to be policed / enforced to a much greater degree, or just removed (with a refund); approval of some sort before any honour text change can go into effect just has to happen.

I can make myself 1.5 million years old, I can put in a sap illusion, I can say that I have 143 honours completed (See HONOURS FULL XENTHOS for details of his 143 honours), etc. It's been demonstrated many times that players cannot police themselves very well. This is not an exception here.

I'm not even sure that the scroll actually adds anything positive to the game.

It sure as hell screws with my otherwise tidy little powerlog/powerlaw overdraw checker. /sniffle.

I think it's kind of a cute thing, that I've considered getting myself, but I know that'd I have to pause to make up some reason for it to work out IC. I know exactly what it would be now that I have given that pause for thought, but I do think it could stand a little policing. All you'd really have to do is maintain a list of people who have the artie, and periodically run a little script that outputs into a window everyone's name and their special honour. It would print something like:

---Xenthos---
The air swirls and an oppressive feeling fills the area.... (the rest)

---Talan---
Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, ...

---Person 3---
Blahblahblah...

And just hit that little code from time to time, with a boilerplate replacement text you slap on people who have silly things. Even have the code only output a random-ish blurb of ten people. Set an ephemeral with some guidelines and this magic checker button. Just flag things that are blatantly OOC or silly. I know that may seem to be a big timesuck on the resources of admins and may seem like too much babysitting, but it's the sort of thing I do all the time with my GUILDMEMBERS ACTIVE list and titles. If you've got what I'd consider an overly silly title, I'll make a note of it and have you find something else next I see you, or reset you to your base rank title next time I see you.

Hrm. I agree that there should be some policing on this, but that calls for more manpower to look after these things. Maybe the price should be bumped up accordingly? It feels really under priced right now.

There's nothing about the laurels scroll that says that you have to tell the truth, so if anyone wishes to claim that they're 11 years old, I say let them. I guess what I mean to say is that I can go either way here, given that while they're tacky or lame, they're not exactly OOC.

What I do have a problem with are those who will abuse this to make system illusions or those who simply don't put any effort into making the scroll text not even in character, opting instead to insult the player or not even bothering to fill in any text aside from "No" (note that I didn't say roleplayed!).

Btw they already bumped up the price - it used to be 215, now it's 325.

Oh didn't know. Still needs to be policed for stupid usage.

Also, Ixion is not Fain, he should not have that message

I am totally in favour of having the replacement message require admin approval. I have seen some quite shocking instances of misuse with regards to this scroll. Indeed, most notable is the 11 year old one.

It's a real shame when an artifact that was intended to be fun for a few people ends up being "abused" like this.

Sojiro:

if anyone wishes to claim that they're 11 years old, I say let them.

Not to harp on about this particular issue, as there are several, but...
Presumably, there's a reason that characters cannot create at ages less than 16. At some point it was decided that the player-characters in the game would all be adults. Personally, I have some qualms about the de-aging that lets people go down to 13, but at least that ends pretty quickly as time naturally progresses. There's a lot of dark stuff in Lusternia's lore and day to day content and I'm just not comfortable with mixing this with prepubescent children I'm expected to interact with. Everyone is entitled to role-play what they wish, but there are some things you just don't do. I won't compare to anything, but you can probably guess with what sampling I'd lump child-bride or child-soldier.

What I do have a problem with are those who will abuse this to make system illusions or those who simply don't put any effort into making the scroll text not even in character, opting instead to insult the player or not even bothering to fill in any text aside from "No" (note that I didn't say roleplayed!).

Agreed, we will at the very least need something that doesn't replicate combat output.

I also think the 'Request Denied' or 'I'm a Nobody of Nothing' or 'None of your beeswax!', when attached to a character with illustrious accolades, is silly. My opinion is that the spirit of the artifact is to add to the character, not subtract from it. Nienla and Vathael got these in the auction originally, and theirs are in keeping with what it probably should be, mimicking those of the elder god characters.

There is no reason why we couldn't police ourselves on this kind of thing, but maybe it would help if the administration stated clearly what the intended use is. At that point they would only need to step in where necessary to correct those who are misusing it... or else, we complainers will just know to shut up about the whole thing and just accept it.

Scroll of Laurels: Bad Idea #201932384 in Lusternia

Revan:

Scroll of Laurels: Bad Idea #201932384 in Lusternia

I can still think back to Bad Idea #4 - not permashrubbing Revan as soon as he came out of the portal. :(

Was just downhill from there!

I'm actually surprised they cloak Honours Full instead of just honours. I don't think the Honours Full should be changed, just the Honours.

I think it was meant to be to give the players the same customization recently done with the gods, but it does seem like it's being abused. (Then again, so is Motto/Warcry).

Keep in mind that the 11-year-old is engaged to be married, which is even more disturbing.

What people need to remember too is that in additiona to Western cultural taboos (and good taste) is that there are some obscenity laws that could conceptually get people into trouble where sex is involved, even if it's a fantasy role-playing game and "virtual". (Just look at how the "sexting" laws are being interpreted to see what could happen). Setting the minimum age to 16 is to help prevent that. Most game desginers know this, and are cautious even where violence is concerned--which is why new games like Skyrim and Fable 3 preventing you from killing children, for instance.

Scroll of Laurels has a lot of fabulous potential for the people who choose to buy them. There are all kinds of things I can think to do with them if I decided I wanted to spend the extra gold on the credits.


I also see the drawbacks. The 11-year-old is in my guild, and while I probably could focus some energy on asking her to change it, I cannot deny that the eternal youth thing is part of the Shadowdancer MO. When I first noticed it, I was leery of the terrible side effects of having a child character (baby talk, tantrums, etc), but so far, she's been pretty mature. The drawbacks in question, then, are sort of what Sidd and Talan have both brought up-- if this is disturbing for other players, I'll happily exert my influence on the matter, but until we know, definitively, what is OK and what is considered a step too far, I'm sort of at a loss in-game policeman-wise.


It also bugs me that, in a game which relies heavily upon the maturity levels of its players, we have to worry about this sort of thing at all. I'm not surprised, of course, but it bugs me all the same.

Eventru:


I can still think back to Bad Idea #4 - not permashrubbing Revan as soon as he came out of the portal. :(

Was just downhill from there!

Yea man, that was Lusternia's WORST idea =/ If only we could go back in time D:

In all seriousness though, it's pretty amusing at how people get so easily offended by stuff like this. "WHAT!? 11 YEARS OLD!! HOW DARE THEY! I AM OFFENDED!" Seriously, The world isn't bible-thumping Christian Ethics anymore. What is enjoyable for one person might not be for another, but you don't go and force your world view on that because oh-my-god you're so shocked and appalled. let people play the game how they want.. if they :censor: up, well there you go. Stop shoving your ethical doctrine onto other people :)

As for Vermilla.... *gets the noose ready*

PS: I am outrageously offended by Glomdoring's epic quest where they have to sacrifice a baby. WTF guys. That's completely unethical, disgusting and wrong. I can't believe something as foul and inhumane as this is supported by the playerbase at large. You're all terrible

Revan:

In all seriousness though, it's pretty amusing at how people get so easily offended by stuff like this. "WHAT!? 11 YEARS OLD!! HOW DARE THEY! I AM OFFENDED!" Seriously, The world isn't bible-thumping Christian Ethics anymore. What is enjoyable for one person might not be for another, but you don't go and force your world view on that because oh-my-god you're so shocked and appalled. let people play the game how they want.. if they :censor: up, well there you go. Stop shoving your ethical doctrine onto other people :)

I'm not offended--mostly because I'm only hearing about the character on the forums and am not as knowledgeable on the actual RP, only how people are reacting on the forums--I am just presenting the fact that age is a factor--and there's a more or less "universal taboo" on sex with pre-adolescents that goes deeper than Christianity and is likely to make more than a few people squeamish. Not saying that they can't play the way they want, but that there's likely a negative connotation it gives to the public. Part of being a good game player is figuring out how your behavior affects others and factoring that into account.

The reason I mentioned the age restrictions is that--the very worst case scenario, unlikely as it is--is somebody reporting IRE to a DA and the game getting shut down (or players getting prosecuted) because of "Child Pornography", which can be a very reasonable fear the way the laws are constructed and interpreted today--we live in an age where five year olds can be suspended for "sexual harrasment". And I know about the baby quest, but I wanted to mention the more popular games not allowing children to be injured to also emphasize that other game companies set similar, even stronger limits.

Oh I completely agree with you on the legality of it all. You can't argue the law (well you can, but that's silly). I'm just saying that Western Ethics aren't the only ethics. Feudal Japan, for instance, was REALLY big on child sex. Just how some people are/were... right or wrong isn't an absolute on some things

I fail to see how any of this is more immersion breaking than being able to psychically check a person's age, affiliation, and life achievements instantly...

I always thought you should be able to see if they were enemies of your guild/commune/order. Right now the only way to check (assuming they are in neutral territory) is by going through the entire list, which can be quite long and spammy.

Honours is the Lusternia equivalent of Facebook.

(Seriously, I always saw messages, aetherchannles, and the news network as a sort of mental Internet).