Question, Is this much damage from a basic attack considered acceptable in terms of PvP?

4043h, 5400m, 5924e, 3p lrxk (xhspfwb)
A blaze of righteous yellow fire surrounds Draylor, filling him with zealous anger.
A dazzling ringing enters your mind.
A westerly breeze brings in a clean, sweet scent that invigorates your body.
The flow of blood recedes as your left leg's laceration mends.
4251h, 5400m, 6000e, 3p lrxk (xhspfwb) (+208h)(+76e)
Draylor plays a harmonious flame-red mandolin and directs the stately notes towards you.
Holy fire erupts at your feet and engulfs you.
You scream in pain as a burst of yellow holy flame envelops you.
1172h, 5400m, 6000e, 3p lrxk (xhspfwb) (-3079h)

o.O I don't think it's EVER considered acceptable. Holy crap, is Methrenton on steroids or something?! But also, check your resistance to fire.

You were sensitive. You're also taking damage from a 23/23 int/cha bard as an aslaran. Also have a TF, so no. Not overly bad.

The same attack does a third of that to some people.

edit: nvm

Go fight a geomancer while sensitive under the same conditions, revel in the 5k+ damage.

Arcanis:

Question, Is this much damage from a basic attack considered acceptable in terms of PvP?

Having been a cantor, with a max magic source damage rune, all the relevant tattoos, war blessings and easily sustainable stuff, I can tell you definitively that what he hit you with wasn't base line normal numbers for Starchord.

Like he said, you were afflicted and otherwise under conditions of specific vulnerability to the attack. Possibly undead as well?

Mages, Geomancers in particular, are the greatest practitions of psychotic levels of damage without a lot of special conditions and preparation. Not that I think that needs changing- there should be some perk to go along with being the group combat pinata. Bards definitely hurt, but they work a bit harder for it.

earwort > Draylor's damage

Exactly same attack did 1204 to Revan.

EDIT: in fact, worse. He was hit with white fire.

Draylor plays a harmonious flame-red mandolin and directs the stately notes towards you.
Holy fire erupts at your feet and engulfs you.
You scream in pain as a burst of white holy flame envelops you.
Your vision darkens as the power of the unholy water within you strikes back at Draylor.
3808h, 7920m, 9000e, 3p esSilrxkb (xhspfwb) (-1640h)(+175m)<20:19:32.576>

Octave damage (ouch!):

Draylor plays a wailing, discordant chord on a harmonious flame-red mandolin, directing the dissonant notes at you.
You scream in pain as a burst of white holy flame envelops you.
Your vision darkens as the power of the unholy water within you strikes back at Draylor.
You scream in agony as the violent chord threatens to rip you asunder.
2065h, 3835m, 4725e, 10p esSilrxkbp (xhspfwb - PRONE!) (-3258h)(-3960m)(-4275e)<20:23:36.073>

Just checked. Am only on 21/21 right now.

No war.

Scrolled too far back. 1204 without sensitivity.

Given how hard it is to set up a full discordantchord, the damage is pretty pathetic tbh.

Yeah, it's actually very impossible to get a full dchord up in any real situation. And you're pretty much always better off doing minorsixths if you've got egovice/manabarbs on them anyways. More damage for your effort/power that way, eh? Kind of in the same boat as unleash on that, my unleash does like 2.5 of my staffpoint on a 12 second delay, for 10p and a full bucket of mana.

Enyalida:

Yeah, it's actually very impossible to get a full dchord up in any real situation. And you're pretty much always better off doing minorsixths if you've got egovice/manabarbs on them anyways. More damage for your effort/power that way, eh? Kind of in the same boat as unleash on that, my unleash does like 2.5 of my staffpoint on a 12 second delay, for 10p and a full bucket of mana.

I don't think unleash is really comparable to staffcast like that. It's not as though discordantchord lets you hit a dozen or two people for 2.5x normal damage throughout your meld.

Sure, one on one there's no real reason to use unleash, but it's been used fairly effectively in group combat before.

The only real viable use for damage on group like that is if you can sensitivity a large part of that group and somehow time it perfectly, presumably using some combination of a bard (for blankchord), nyd (for the sensitivity), and some kind of blackout effect. Or a group stun perfectly timed would work, I don't think bellow is long enough for that. Doing all that with absolute perfect timing (assuming that the enemy group doesn't INSTANTLY manakill you), you would do say... 5-6k damage each member of the group, assuming they don't have plate or spellbound, and don't have some shenanigans to reduce that damage (like numen, numb, or holywater. Please, no unholy water!). That may kill a good number of the midbies, but you're guaranteed to be killed before the timer goes off (not to mention that being strategically blinded right as it's about to hit stops it, or strategically manakilled)

All said, the various unleashes are very suboptimal for all the guilds that get it, with definite uses, but very very niche and limited uses. It's a bit better for Geomancers with their demesne focus on damage and their raise staff hilariousness for more damage, and their superior damage typing. Unless you are a totems user, you won't have much reduction to poison (as compared to, say... cutting/blunt :P). The herbstacking focus of aero, purg/burn thing of pyro, the movement control strategies of aqua, and the single target lockdown of druid/sap demesne don't lend themselves to medium group damage. If a mage wants to damage a group, he gets his friends and does their boulderblast clone effect. If a druid wants to do so, they stop wanting to do so after realizing how pointless/impossible/reckless it is.

Me:
On Shedrin: armor: 60/46; Phys Dmp: 47/66; Elec dmp: 0; Health: 5839; LVL: 101

986 staff on , ~315 bleeding
1214 electrostaff, ~150 bleeding
2946 unleash, ~200 bleeding


On Astrasia: Armor: 45/57; Phys Dmp: 11/11; Elec Dmp: 0; Health: 3998; LVL: 92

1202 staff, ~340 bleeding
1611 electrostaff, ~170 bleeding
3284 unleash, ~240 bleeding


Shedrin:
On Me: armor: irrelevant; phys dmp: ditto, Elec dmp: 5, Cold dmp: 5,Health: 4850, LVL: 100

1295 staff (Elec)
906 tempest
3334 unleash

Looking at this chart of a small test, I can give squishy midbies (Astrasia) quite a shock, and hope that my demesne or some other room passive will wipe them out (assuming I've stripped their protection and am in their room or an adjacent room). Of course, I could quickly overwhelm her with my electrocudgel attack.

Against higher tier combatants (Shedrin), the unleash still does a lot more then my staff, but at nearly exactly 50% damage, it's not going to win any battles.

Shedrin's unleash did a substantially higher proportion of damage to me, but this is me with no buff up but kirigami! If I were in the room with Shedrin in a fight and he did this to me, I'd eternalsleep him or have an ally toadcurse him. If I wasn't in his room or adjacent rooms, I'd just walk out of demesne or heal up. Of course, with mages, if they stack unleash with phantomsphere detonate or room damage attacks, they can stack on more damage to make it more useful.

Fury (concept) change is on the list of things to envoy, it has some really niche use, but as far as trans skills go, damage that isn't enough to endanger an entire group that makes you deep into the instakill range and depletes all 10 of your power won't be worth it >85% of the time. It's especially wonky on druids, whose combat style limits them to one real target, and is really power heavy.

EDIT: In general though, I probably have to echo Malarious' sentiment that damage all around is too high. I've got people 50% my might, who are lvl 96 (granted, shadowsinger bards) hitting me for 1.7k damage (no sensitivity I could detect, was hit for a normal amount by a cudgel a second earlier) with an effect I have ~40 dmp against 75% of (shadowchord/poison).
This means that three of them doing this attack on me at about the same time will flatten me. >_> Three people, against a demigod! If someone manages to say, entangle me, I'm dead. In general, this is what disappoints me about group combat, most of the time, it's standoffs because if you engage, half of your combatants instantly die. Who ever is left in the aftermath of the first slaughters has a more reasonable fight, but it's sort of luck to not get targeted.

To touch on the fury topic, perhaps a good way to adjust the problems with it would be to replace the damage type with something other than cutting?
That said, I think


I also have seen logs of Fillin and Nydekion using their unleash quite well and knocking off a few tankier combatants and blowing away a bunch of midbies. Believe it or not, that actually can make a humongous difference in a fight.

I agree that damage seems to be a bit on the high end. It should never be that a person can spam one attack on a curing opponent in a vacuum and kill them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not referring to the log that started this thread, but I have seen instances where a single person literally can damage someone to death with no setup, and that just feels wrong.

edit: bluh 3am.

The only guilds who can do that are pretty much just geos. Do it.

Just change fury's typing to lightning/divinus for hartstone and poison/excoro for blacktalon.

That damage is not actually outlier, methrenton is fire and he hurts.

But he had sensitivity! Like so many other guilds, this is a free prep if you have a beast. Beast spit ibululu, he knows you have earache so you arent deaf so you wont have an auto fail on it. If you shrug thats one thing but otherwise he has you guaranteed for the hit, without sensitivity this will still be 2200.

Geomancer staffs (and several other staffs nowadays) all also hit incredibly hard. But to be fair I see DRUIDS hitting for more than many staffs as well. PvP damage has increased GREATLY with tuning overall and 6000 health can be removed in under 3 seconds easy when most everyone does 1200 as a low end damage.

I think tuning should not have worked PvP or the staffs base damage needed to be reduced to compensate since you can now tune 100% of the staff, get a tat so you can ignore some of the DMP, and still benefit from the damage runes and all.

My two sovereigns. I think we got some power creep and no one ever went back and adjusted for that.