Unknown2012-02-10 15:11:25
The types of armour available and their average stats are as follows:
Fullplate: 90/90, used by warriors.
Chainmail: 55/55, usable by guardians, but only coifs are worth using.
Greatrobes: 50/50, used by all non-warriors. Can be proofed.
Scalemail: 45/45, not used by anyone.
Leather: 30/30, not used by anyone. Can be proofed.
Clearly, this is a problem. 100% of leather and scalemail designs along with 75% of chainmail designs are never used due to their strict mechanical inferiority. What can be done to fix this issue?
Step 1: Chainmail fix. Allow chainmail shirts (and only shirts) to hold one proofing. This allows guardians to choose between +5/+5 body/legs armour and +10 dmp to a proofable element of their choice.
Step 2: Scalemail fix. Improve scalemail to 50/50 armour with 2 proofings, just like greatrobes. Allow wiccans, druids, monks and mages to use scalemail. Double commodity costs to match greatrobe costs after tempering. The effective difference between scale and robes is now 100% cosmetic.
Step 3: Leathers fix. Increase armour value by +15/+15 for acrobats only. Double strength of proofings on battled vests (20 DMP instead of 10) for a net of -5/-5 armour stats in exchange for an additional 10 DMP to two proofable elements.
Optional Change 1: Armour runes fix. In order to balance armour (which can be forging runed) and robes (which cannot), allow forging runes to be etched onto armour.
Optional Change 2: Further armour/robes differentiation. Introduce a bias towards cutting resistance in forged armour and blunt resistance in robes on the order of +/- 10 either way. Fullplate/fieldplate remains pefectly balanced between the two, as per now.
Optional change 3: Wiccan-guardian equivilency. Allow wiccans to use chainmail like guardians can.
Fullplate: 90/90, used by warriors.
Chainmail: 55/55, usable by guardians, but only coifs are worth using.
Greatrobes: 50/50, used by all non-warriors. Can be proofed.
Scalemail: 45/45, not used by anyone.
Leather: 30/30, not used by anyone. Can be proofed.
Clearly, this is a problem. 100% of leather and scalemail designs along with 75% of chainmail designs are never used due to their strict mechanical inferiority. What can be done to fix this issue?
Step 1: Chainmail fix. Allow chainmail shirts (and only shirts) to hold one proofing. This allows guardians to choose between +5/+5 body/legs armour and +10 dmp to a proofable element of their choice.
Step 2: Scalemail fix. Improve scalemail to 50/50 armour with 2 proofings, just like greatrobes. Allow wiccans, druids, monks and mages to use scalemail. Double commodity costs to match greatrobe costs after tempering. The effective difference between scale and robes is now 100% cosmetic.
Step 3: Leathers fix. Increase armour value by +15/+15 for acrobats only. Double strength of proofings on battled vests (20 DMP instead of 10) for a net of -5/-5 armour stats in exchange for an additional 10 DMP to two proofable elements.
Optional Change 1: Armour runes fix. In order to balance armour (which can be forging runed) and robes (which cannot), allow forging runes to be etched onto armour.
Optional Change 2: Further armour/robes differentiation. Introduce a bias towards cutting resistance in forged armour and blunt resistance in robes on the order of +/- 10 either way. Fullplate/fieldplate remains pefectly balanced between the two, as per now.
Optional change 3: Wiccan-guardian equivilency. Allow wiccans to use chainmail like guardians can.
Unknown2012-02-10 16:49:31
Lotsa more important things to change first, and lotsa other trade skill items that go totally unmade.
Unknown2012-02-10 18:12:33
The scalemail fix is a problem. What's the incentive to use the robes-grab-bag method if you can just get scale-mail, temper it as desired, and smelt-reforge whenever they get low on months?
Kayaldiyah2012-02-10 18:34:46
foolofsound:
Lotsa more important things to change first, and lotsa other trade skill items that go totally unmade.
No offense, but I think this comment is completely uncalled for. The "Ideas" thread is meant for....Ideas! It doesn't mean they are going to be implemented. It's just a way for us to get our ideas out there. So if this is what Greleag happens to want to focus on, then so be it. If you have other ideas you'd like to focus on, go for it. But you don't need to put other people's ideas down just because you don't think their idea is important.
Unknown2012-02-10 19:26:46
I not only feel that this isn't a particularly important problem, I also feel that addressing it has the potential to open up an entire field of other problems, most notably changing what type of armor is most advantageous after some players have already spent large amounts of gold and/or credits in order to make and/or modify their current robes/armor. I don't feel that it is nessicarily a bad thing that some items go unused; forging already has quite a bit of demand going for it (for the extensive amount of effort it take to forge high quality weapons). Compare to Tinkering which as very little demand for any of its items.
Unknown2012-02-10 22:33:22
@Kialkarkea: Smelt reforging costs you like 20 bars of steal for re-tempering. Mending is much cheaper. I strongly doubt that anyone would actually switch over to armour just for that reason.
@fool: Worst case scenario in that regard is if you're a guardian/wiccan currently using a really really nice set of greatrobes and decide you want chainmail instead. In which case you're out like 10K tops on the robes, which really isn't all that bad.
Note that you are specifically not allowed spend credits to make enchanted greatrobes or any sort of forged armour non-decay, so the only case where you're losing credits is if you're the sort of madman that spends 50 credits to customize your robes instead of submitting them as a cartel design.
@fool: Worst case scenario in that regard is if you're a guardian/wiccan currently using a really really nice set of greatrobes and decide you want chainmail instead. In which case you're out like 10K tops on the robes, which really isn't all that bad.
Note that you are specifically not allowed spend credits to make enchanted greatrobes or any sort of forged armour non-decay, so the only case where you're losing credits is if you're the sort of madman that spends 50 credits to customize your robes instead of submitting them as a cartel design.
Turnus2012-02-10 22:48:05
Smelt reforging costs are basically nothing with a mallet. It would be interesting if armour stats were messed around with to be in the middle of the line with greatrobes, then people had the option to get armor for the sure thing, or robes if they want to gamble with getting better stats.
But really in truth, any change to armor is probably pointless, because people will always only pick the "best" option, and if it becomes armor then greatrobes are obsolete, and if its greatrobes what was the point in modifying armor? Being able to bat leather armor so that it can be proofed was an example of this, it was added but since greatrobes are still better has anybody ever bothered with leather armor?
Edit: meant to say costs are nothing with a mallet
But really in truth, any change to armor is probably pointless, because people will always only pick the "best" option, and if it becomes armor then greatrobes are obsolete, and if its greatrobes what was the point in modifying armor? Being able to bat leather armor so that it can be proofed was an example of this, it was added but since greatrobes are still better has anybody ever bothered with leather armor?
Edit: meant to say costs are nothing with a mallet
Xenthos2012-02-10 22:54:58
Especially since the customization will go away when they turn tawdry anyways... that's a pretty big waste of credits there.
Enyalida2012-02-10 23:06:14
Well. You can make your own enchanted greatrobes or forged armor permanent. That is, if you have the trade, and make yourself the special set that only you can make (your splendors/uberarmor) there doesn't seem to be much problem in making it permanent. I suspect that this is because you're not removing any sort of gold flow from the economy, as you'd not be going to anyone else to make your super special robes/armor. If this change went through, I'd promptly switch to armor, and never look back, though I'd keep some ceremonial robes in a storeroom.
Unknown2012-02-11 01:34:59
Turnus:
because people will always only pick the "best" option
The idea behind this suggestion is that there shouldn't be a single best option for everyone. You'd pick based on your guild's specific skills, your racial modifers, who you often fight and what you hunt. A lucidian or a dracnari, for example, would want to go for the option that gives them more/better proofings in order to compensate for their racial elemental weaknesses. Meanwhile a krokani or am elfen might want more armour because of their lack of major elemental vulnerabilities.
Unknown2012-02-11 05:45:21
Enyalida:
Well. You can make your own enchanted greatrobes or forged armor permanent. That is, if you have the trade, and make yourself the special set that only you can make (your splendors/uberarmor) there doesn't seem to be much problem in making it permanent. I suspect that this is because you're not removing any sort of gold flow from the economy, as you'd not be going to anyone else to make your super special robes/armor. If this change went through, I'd promptly switch to armor, and never look back, though I'd keep some ceremonial robes in a storeroom.
I was under the impression that forgers could do a customization, but not tailors.
Vadi2012-02-11 06:48:48
Shouldn't it be the other way around - don't design for the armour that people won't be wearing anyway?
Alternatively, perhaps if the design was made anyway, the creator was aware that it wouldn't be so popular and just wished to have it done.
Alternatively, perhaps if the design was made anyway, the creator was aware that it wouldn't be so popular and just wished to have it done.
Enyalida2012-02-11 06:59:43
I'm pretty sure (like, I know people who profess to have have done this) that if you make your splendors from your own private design, they'll let you make it permanent.
Unknown2012-02-11 15:59:27
Well, as far as I know, it isn't allowed and even if it were, nobody who has splendors (especially 50 credit non-decay splendors!) is at all likely to downgrade to normal armour when they could just keep using their splendors, so it's a moot point regardless.