Special Report - Feedback

by Unknown

Back to Ideas.

Unknown2012-02-12 00:55:09
Hi,

I've finally met with the admin and discussed the special report.

I'll be addressing each topic of the special report, posting the related feedback, then the suggested course of action.

After that, I'll probably open new threads to discuss revisions within the special report. Please take appropriate replies there, when I make it.

Here is a link to the special report: http://forums.luster...ndpost&p=854514

Here it is in pastebin:
http://pastebin.com/ST64sw0r

Choke:
Estarra the Eternal says, "Ok well lets get rid of choke, that'd make our life easier. You can suggest some unique noncomplicated replacement or we will come up with one."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I'd also prefer it not be a clone of waning."

Estarra the Eternal says, "A new innovative, uncomplicated idea would be well received."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Or if you can come up with something that isn't aeon like."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I don't want you to get stuck, well it has to be aeon like."

Estarra the Eternal says, "You can think out of the box."


Conclusion: Delete choke, add in new mechanic(s) to aid a Shadowdancer in getting a toadcurse while at the same time making this effect to be something that will aid an Ebonguard in combat.

Revolts:
Estarra the Eternal says, "Basically i think revolts should take at least 15 minutes."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I agree that they shouldn't take 3 minutes."

Estarra the Eternal says, "That's a design issue with village feelings obviously."

Estarra the Eternal says, "It just seems a little artificial and forced to solve the issue with delaying when you can influence villagers."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Ok well some people like the idea of randomizing recovery time but I think that's wholly separate from solving the 3 minute wins."


Conclusion: Quick revolts will be addressed, contemplating loyalties at the start denied, considering randomized shuffle time.


Aetherflares:
Estarra the Eternal says, "Ships are expensive and intended to be involved in Aetherflares as the 'best' means of gaining points. If you can't field ships, or can't fly them well at all, you really can't reasonable expect to win. Also, 10-12 focusers means the flare would be over VERY quickly with no competition."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I agree with that comment insofar ships should definitely have a greater advantage over colossi."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Plus the whole point of aflares was to encourage ship combat."

You say, "So generally speaking, you feel that a team of all ships should always win even if the enemy team is holding the bubble on the ground?"

Estarra the Eternal says, "Yes, the main focus should be on ships."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I don't mind boosting colossi but they ships should always trump."

You say, "That'd be appreciated, right now there's not much incentive to focus compared to ships."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Ok maybe consider that for the revision."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Anyway, point here collossi should not eclipse or equal ships but rather they are to suppport ships."


Conclusion: Incentives to focus colossi will be considered, bombards will not be touched. Flares are meant to be about ship PVP.


Shrines:

Estarra the Eternal says, "Require a shrine room to be fully sanctified before powers may take effect."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I don't think there's much objection here."

On 1 area power per war shrine:

Estarra the Eternal says, "Ok well go ahead and keep this idea. Honestly I'm neutral to it but there's some strong background objection."

On cooldowns for shrine powers:

Estarra the Eternal says, "Maybe give us a range to consider like 10-20 minutes."

The Norns, Administrators of Fate say in unison, "Would this turn into people pre-raiding to get shrine effects raised, then just ignoring it ot go back in an hour?"

You say, "Yes."

You say, "So maybe the cooldown can be applied only if it's defiled away."

You say, "Not fading naturally."

You say, "That should solve the problem."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Ok well i'm not sure i'm crazy about cooldowns per shrine but keep it in and elucidate."


Conclusion: Shrines requiring full sanctification likely in, neutral opinion on cooldown/1 power per shrine, keep those in anyway.


Demigods:

Estarra the Eternal says, "We had a lot of complaints that there was a perception you -had- to be a demigod to engage in combat, and we wanted to move away from a lot of combat advantages for demigods, but this report seems to really want to beef up demigods."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Also it seems like there's a move to lower essence costs or make more one-time essence costs or flex them or whatever but we see people with 400-600 milliion essence. I'd like to see essence spent more not less."

On skillflexing demi powers:

Estarra the Eternal says, "I'm on the fence iwth this. It would need to be limited so you can't easily cycle through powers and probably i'd want to make it expensive to switch, so maybe you can only switch out one a RL day at a 10M essence cost per switch, something like that."

On reviewing the costs of demi powers:

Estarra the Eternal says, "Review the costs/weight for the powers that currently exist, ascendant included."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Yes I agree the costs should go up."

D:

Estarra the Eternal says, "Explain to me the reason why any cost should be reduced hwen people are ssitting on half a billion essence."

You say, "Because it will only encourage more afk aetherbashing when what they want is suddenly 20 million more expensive."

Estarra the Eternal says, "What if we CAP essence at 100 million."

Estarra the Eternal says, "So if you reach 100M, you can't gain any more essence until you use it."

You say, "And adjusted costs with that in mind?"

Estarra the Eternal says, "Maybe."

On sealholders buying ascendant powers:

Estarra the Eternal says, "I don't like it costing half."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Don't think i mind the other part though."

On allowing the purchase of demigod weight via essence/gold:

Estarra the Eternal says, "Ok i'm thinking of adding weight based on the level of essence, though essence gained would be diminished the higher your essence level, and you'd deactivate powers if you take one and then suddenly you drop below the level."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Does that make sense."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Or maybe all your powers inactivate if you drop below an essence level until you reshuffle it."

You say, "Reshuffling would be great."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Well lets go on that premise."

You say, "Not as punishing if you suffer an unfortunate lag death."

On adding more powers:

Estarra the Eternal says, "I don't want to go through each individual suggestion except to say i'm not sure how balanced it is with these combat powers."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Adding stats, dmp and damage buffs, that sorts of thing just seems will turn into 'must haves"."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Regen stuff and beast buff isn't too bad."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I like utility stuff but not everything here."


Conclusion: Skillflexing demigod powers is being considered, needs a bit more polishing. Essence costs will not be reduced, possibly cap essence. Sealholders buying 1 ascendant power is also being considered, costing half weight is frowned upon, needs revision. More demi weight via essence/gold has been altered to be 'more weight the more essence you have', needs a bit more polishing. More powers ideas are welcomed, but they should not be combat-related.


Races:
Estarra the Eternal says, "I'm not crazy about baselining all the races."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I do think there should be some races with high cons and some with low cons, and same with dex and everything else. I'm uncomfortable with the movement well lets just raise everyone's dex to 11."

You say, "So avoid baselining is the general idea?"

Estarra the Eternal says, "Yes."

On tae'dae:

Estarra the Eternal says, "Tae'dae are supposed to be slow, strong and wise, not sure the reason for the dexterity."

Estarra the Eternal says, "If balance penalty was lowered to 1, you thinkt there'd still be problems?"

Estarra the Eternal says, "They have a ton of bonuses."

You say, "If there are, I'm sure it will be brought up if you guys ever do races again."

You say, "So we need to get some field experience with new tae'dae first."

On Igasho:

Estarra the Eternal says, "Don't think they need the dex."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Don't understand lgoic of magic penalty."

On Mugwump:

*Same as merians

On Merian:

Estarra the Eternal says, "I don't get +1 con for merian and -1 con for merian lord."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I definitely don't like reducing the fire weakness."

(Iosai the Anomaly) says, "Makes base merian more tanky and leaves merian lord unaffected."

On Orclach:

Estarra the Eternal says, "I'd consider the +1 dex though."


Conclusion: Reduction in balance penalties for tae'dae/igasho are being considered, so is more con for mugs/merians, add more dex to orclach. Not keen on touching any weaknesses.

Druids:
Estarra the Eternal says, "I don't mind lowering casting time to 3s and i guess i don't mind getting rid of point cleanse."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I'm really disliking making it a 30s instakill."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I also don't like the idea of making sap the focus of druid combat."

You say, "Would it be fine then to focus on thornrend instead?"

Estarra the Eternal says, "Sure."

You say, "Here's the other idea for thornrend."

You say, "-allow thornlashes/thornrend to work on a sapped opponent once again."
You say, "Have thornrend -not- instakill a sapped opponent, instead, have it cause a substantial amount of damage and bleeding (dependent on number of limbs lashed)"
You say, "-disallow igniting lashes while you are sapped, i.e., you're too moist to be properly lit on fire."

Estarra the Eternal says, "So we're making thornrend/sap the druid main ability again."

You say, "The main kill method there yes, since sap alone isn't the plan."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Fire should remove a vine."

You say, "Right now, if you have say...3 lashes on you, and you're ignited, you get cured of all lashes. If you're sapped, can it be so you only lose 1 lash?"

Estarra the Eternal says, "Oh yeah i don't mind that. I also don't mind that curing a lash that way causes a burst of increased damage."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Well what I would still like to see is a way to give druids more combat flexiblity that doesn't revolve around sap and thornvines."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Even if that means removing one of those skills and adding another, or even two more skills."

You say, "You'd like to see something that isn't sap or thornrend related that would help druids as well, and would compliment melds."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I think that'd be better than beefing up thornrend and sap."

Estarra the Eternal says, "What an ability that increases allergies, what about an ability that causes an allergic reaction, what if allergies get to teh point where you can't breathe and pass out, etc., etc."

You say, "Can I say you're fine with allowing potentially new afflictions then, just for druids?"

Estarra the Eternal says, "Well, no."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Don't say one way or the other."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I don't want to give mixed signals."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I'd prefer no new afflictions that have cures."

Estarra the Eternal says, "i'm definitely not encouraging new afflictions."

You say, "So new afflictions that have no cure but time are okay, if I'm understanding correctly."

You say, "But if it comes down to it, that's okay?"

Estarra the Eternal says, "Time or movement."

Estarra nods Her head emphatically.

Conclusion: Reducing sap eq and removing point cleanse is being considered, the rest are not. Druidry has been approved to receive a new mechanic (that complements melds) that doesn't necessarily need to revolve around sap or rends to get their kills. No new afflictions with cures, but time/movement based ones are okay.


Warriors:
On diminished returns for armour:

Roark Libertas says, "I don't have much opinion on that."

Roark Libertas says, "Should be easy to code."

On removing natural miss:

Estarra the Eternal says, "I don't mind that but no "etc.", list every power that should have no natural miss."

You say, "Lunge, crush, assault, sweep."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Well not now!"

On changing swing percentages:

Roark Libertas says, "What are the % now?"

(Iosai the Anomaly) says, "50%, 35%, 15%."

(Iosai the Anomaly) says, "Swipe is 50/35/15, swipe is 50/25/25, slash is 50/15/35, hack is 60/20/20."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I assume they want more percent onthe main body parts, like head/gut, chest."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I think i like having secondary area higher."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Like 70-20-10."

Estarra the Eternal says, "or 65-25-10."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Lets just say you want the main body part to be in the 60-70 range and we'll worry about the secondary/tertiary parts."


Conclusion: Diminished returns is being considered, easily coded, so is removing natural miss. Changing swing percentages is also being considered.


Monks:
On momentum loss from changing targets:

Roark Libertas says, "How about it drops -1 when it gets that low?"

You say, "So instead of -2, -1 instead?"

Roark Libertas says, "When it gets to 2mo."

Roark Libertas says, "So there is always a penalty."

Roark Libertas says, "Just not so strong at the bottom."

On momentum loss for hitting nothing:

(Iosai the Anomaly) says, "Seems more like a bug to me."

Roark Libertas says, "Yeah that sounds like a bug."

On standardizing grapples:

Estarra the Eternal says, "That seems complicated."

Roark Libertas says, "So make balance modifiers factor in for grapples."

Roark Libertas says, "Not too fond of that one. Is there anyway to adjust base balance generally so that it works for everyone?"

Roark Libertas says, "There really isn't a good way to turn off balance tweaks on a case by case basis."

Roark Libertas says, "Plus generally I don't like completely erasing advantages and disadvantages for race stats."

Roark Libertas says, "Softening them yes, but completely erasing seems to cheapen the races."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Lets say no to that unless there's a better universal idea."

You say, "So if I'm understanding correctly, it's okay to adjust so all races can do it, but not completely removing the disadvantages."

Roark Libertas says, "Yes, I'm fine with that."

On grapples not building momentum:

Roark Libertas says, "Why is this bad?"

(Iosai the Anomaly) says, "Because you can grapple over and over to gain momentum almost unstoppably."

Comprehension flashes across Estarra's face.

Estarra the Eternal says, "Good reason."

Roark Libertas says, "Can't you punch over and over to do the same?"

(Iosai the Anomaly) says, "Yes, but the target can still act back. Grapples are hindering."

You say, "Yes, but grapples hinder you, punches, not so much."

Roark Libertas says, "I see. So no way to defend."

Roark Libertas says, "Makes sense to me."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Ok."

Roark Libertas says, "Shouldn't be hard."

On more parameters for perform:

Roark Libertas says, "Let's table this one, because what we do with the momentum based syntax might impact this one."

Roark Libertas says, "Just combining te syntaxes of those two ideas would be diffiuclt."

Roark Libertas says, "Though I am warm to the other idea."

Estarra the Eternal says, "The other idea being the report 739?"

Roark Libertas says, "The other oen."

On balance loss for kata chains:

Roark Libertas says, "I agree it should behave same as the first in the chain."

On lunge mods:

Roark Libertas says, "Actually this would be easy to code."

On butojo:

Estarra the Eternal says, "I said no caveat."

Estarra the Eternal says, "If we do it."

Roark Libertas says, "I see. I agree."

On akhoosh:

(Iosai the Anomaly) says, "Doesn't it require three specific mantra-types?"

(Iosai the Anomaly) says, "That's quite a big limitation."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I don't mind the raising power oh akhoosh, not sure of hte 2s balance. Its not supposed to be a form of tumble."

Roark Libertas says, "No opinion. Should be easy."

On veil:

Estarra the Eternal says, "Meh, don't see the point, but no objection."

On tattoomaster:

(Iosai the Anomaly) says, "Guild-skills generally exceed trade or general skills in power."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Its supposed to be better than splendor robes, these are monks, splendors are spell casters."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Tattoomaster is a trans skill, same as splendors."

You say, "Tattoomaster is just clearly superior to splendours, and people balance around splendours."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Well they shouldn't."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Diversity is part of combat IMO."

Estarra the Eternal says, "The question shouldn't be is it better than splendors (it is) but is it imbalanced and OP."

You say, "I understand. If the wound reduction from armour stats goes in, it should help with this issue as well anyway."


Conclusion: Changing targets suggested to be -1 instead of -2, hitting nothing fixed, standardizing grapples needs a bit more work to not remove disadvantages of race, grapples sustaining momentum is fine, improving kata perform is currently a bit too complicated, balance loss for chains will be considered, lunge mods are okay, butojo is okay with no caveat, increasing the power cost of akhoosh is good, cooldown on veil is okay, and no change to tattoomaster until the armour nerf.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All done. Please make suggestions on the relevant threads I will soon open up.
Unknown2012-02-12 03:52:37
Choke:
:blink: Wow. That was unexpected. Hmmm. Presumably, it will be replaced with a new movement hindering effect. An idea I had:

Shadowbind (alt name: Nighthunter):
Empower your foe's shadow into a wyrden beast that harries their steps and tears at their bodies.
2 power, requires and expends stolen shadow. Lasts 60s, Focus Spirit cure. Give all normal movement, tumbles, and tumble-like movements a 33% rejection rate, with balance loss on failure. Add 100-200ish bleeding on rejection. Shadow may not be re-stolen while in effect.

Revolts:
Woo!

Aetherflares:
That's fair. I wonder if we can suggest some changes to make aethercombat less purely focused on ship numbers...

Demis:
I'm totally cool with demis not getting new combat powers, though I would like more RP powers to go through, and for substantially less weight. I hate the idea that we shouldn't reduce costs because a couple of people like to uberbash.

Races:
Less than we asked for, but more than I expected. Totally fine with these.

Druids:
Well that's exciting, though I still like sap kill for sheer coolness factor.

Monks:
I'm glad something is being done, at least. I just hope it works out.

The whole report is looking significantly better than I expected. I'm rather excited!
Lehki2012-02-12 04:08:57
foolofsound:

I'm totally cool with demis not getting new combat powers, though I would like more RP powers to go through, and for substantially less weight. I hate the idea that we shouldn't reduce costs because a couple of people like to uberbash.

Yeah the reasoning on that one rather bothered me. There's really nothing you could do BUT seemingly mandatory combat buffs that would ever get those people with huge piles of essence to burn through it. I'd be interested to see some statistics on demi-god essence spread, 'cus honestly I imagine those people are outliers. ):
Xenthos2012-02-12 04:12:25
Lehki:

Yeah the reasoning on that one rather bothered me. There's really nothing you could do BUT seemingly mandatory combat buffs that would ever get those people with huge piles of essence to burn through it. I'd be interested to see some statistics on demi-god essence spread, 'cus honestly I imagine those people are outliers. ):

Actually, I think there is in fact something that can be done.

As one of the people with a ton of essence, I think there's something to the comment that Estarra made in that area. I'd just like to see it raised a little. Cap essence at 200,000,000, give a warning that it is going to be done so people can spend what they've got above that down to the cap.

Then you can adjust costs and such based on that, knowing that there is an upper cap and no ability to go above it (no more trying to balance around people with half a million+ essence). There are only about 10 people in the entire game who would be affected by this change, and we can deal, I'm sure.

Edit: Demigod #10 is actually a bit under 200,000,000 essence, so only 9 people will be affected.
Enyalida2012-02-12 04:13:42
Yah. The solution to 'a few silly demis have too much essence' is: Drop weights on existing powers ( a lot ), double the amount of powers available. I really couldn't be bothered to get more essence, because I've got everything I'm going to want and that's that. However, not adding powers, or keeping in things at high prices that should cost nothing (all the choice stuff that has no combat potential, anyone?) on the grounds that a few people autobash all day doesn't seem fair. A lot of the suggested cost changes weren't really based on absolute cost, but on relative cost, anyways.
Unknown2012-02-12 04:23:36
So...do Ninjakari get to be redesigned now to not be based on grapples?
Unknown2012-02-12 05:40:41
Demigod stuff:
Essence cap would be interesting. People would actually use the time-limited powers that way.

Races:
-Skipping out on weakness reduction is fine, so long as the underlying issue is addressed for races that suffer unduly.

-On dexterity- since lower dex DOES make races that should be appealing to knights not so- can we unhinge the wound landing benefits of dexterity from knights (if they exist)? That would avoid the baseline issue. Also, if Orclach need the dex, dwarves sure do too.

On knights/armour:
- I can live with the wounding diminishing returns, though it certainly devalues master armour and coal runes. However, and not that this came up, but as a reminder, I object heavily to applying diminishing returns to raw damage. Too much of that, and plate just becomes metal robes that you can't proof. At which point, there's a decent chance of seeing knights running around in splendours too, which just gets stupid.
Turnus2012-02-12 05:51:34
Sojiro:

Estarra the Eternal says, "Ok i'm thinking of adding weight based on the level of essence, though essence gained would be diminished the higher your essence level, and you'd deactivate powers if you take one and then suddenly you drop below the level."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Does that make sense."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Or maybe all your powers inactivate if you drop below an essence level until you reshuffle it."


I've bashed up my 50 weight worth of powers and pretty much stopped bashing, is this to mean that suddenly I need to bash up to some arbitrary essence point just so that I can keep them? Not a fan of that, as bashing is just a boring grind to me that I was glad to be done with. Though if its a system that's only for those above 50 weight, sure.
Unknown2012-02-12 10:22:10
I knew they'd be reasonable about Tattoos. Thank the Gods.
Enyalida2012-02-12 10:35:53
The question still stands: " is it imbalanced and OP." I'd say yes, it is. Not the biggest fish to fry, but it's one we've already caught and prepared, so we might as well.

EDIT: And really, with the suggested changes, tattoomaster would STILL be better then Splendors, but it wouldn't be as noticeable/weird/imbalanced. And why is my font smaller. Whatever.
Asmodea2012-02-12 10:51:53
Enyalida:

. And why is my font smaller. Whatever.


Because you copy/pasted :)
Unknown2012-02-12 11:17:23
foolofsound:

Choke:
:blink: Wow. That was unexpected. Hmmm. Presumably, it will be replaced with a new movement hindering effect. An idea I had:

Shadowbind (alt name: Nighthunter):
Empower your foe's shadow into a wyrden beast that harries their steps and tears at their bodies.
2 power, requires and expends stolen shadow. Lasts 60s, Focus Spirit cure. Give all normal movement, tumbles, and tumble-like movements a 33% rejection rate, with balance loss on failure. Add 100-200ish bleeding on rejection. Shadow may not be re-stolen while in effect.


Night is already built with stuff to hinder movement. Brumetower/Bonds/(Choke). As with Moondancers, Shadowdancers need the aeon-like effect to help stick afflictions and drain mana for a toadcurse. Most people, without aeon to slow them down, can survive Lashing since it's an active ability. (Moondancers have active aeon (Wane) with passive mana drain (Succumb)).

tl;dr

No need movement hinder; need slow curing.
Asmodea2012-02-12 11:54:06
I do like the sound of using the stolen shadow to manipulate that person as well as its current effects, sounds kind of cool, though I agree with Alacardael, Night is full of movement hindering so it would need to focus on some other kind of hindering.
Unknown2012-02-12 14:00:53
Also, since Estarra and Co. have decided to scrape Choke entirely in favor of a new mechanic, may we ask how much time we have to make this mechanic up?

Also, again:


Estarra the Eternal says, "Or if you can come up with something that isn't aeon like."

Estarra the Eternal says, "I don't want you to get stuck, well it has to be aeon like."


D: D: D:
Unknown2012-02-12 14:09:36
WIth choke, the trick is going to be creating something that fulfills its purpose vis a vis the shadowdancer offense, acknlowledges whatever effects it may have in group combat, and at the same time, doesn't just result in ChokeDebate 2.0.

If that can be pulled off, which will be hard enough, I wouldn't worry too much about how useful it is for the Ebonguard. That's adding another spot to hit in an already challenging game of Twister. EG are knights, after all, and even apart from anything else, the Night skillset already has an incredibly nice amount of DMP and weapon aura in it.
Unknown2012-02-12 14:17:37
Yeah, I'll agree to that too. Choke is/was very central to Shadowdancer combat and a number of the other skills were made to compliment it. For Ebonguard, it's just something nice to have. Whatever it is fashioned into should account for SD use primarily.
Unknown2012-02-12 14:22:54
Turnus:


I've bashed up my 50 weight worth of powers and pretty much stopped bashing, is this to mean that suddenly I need to bash up to some arbitrary essence point just so that I can keep them? Not a fan of that, as bashing is just a boring grind to me that I was glad to be done with. Though if its a system that's only for those above 50 weight, sure.


I sincerely hope that 50 is the baseline essence that everyone will start with, for this very reason, and then weight is added to that as essence increases. When I read it, in fact, I just assumed that would be the case, because to do otherwise seems like a pointless teeth-kick to us plebians.

Remember when the original "essence shop" went in? A good friend of mine went basically dormant/semi-active, as he had just gotten demigod after years of playing, and almost immediately lost all the benefits he had worked to gain. Relatively recently, he's gotten back in to the game and is working on piecing together his powers.

If a change like this goes in? It will be the last change all over again. "Surprise, you won't be taking those powers you thought you had, and might even be losing what you managed to put together!" It will feel, regardless of the intent, that the Admin hate him and don't want him to have fun.

When putting in a change like this, it is essential not just to ask, "what will the Raz's of the world do?", "what will the people with an essence pile often confused with the population of moderately large nations do?" but "How is this going to impact the morale and feelings of all those people who are in the lower tail of demigod?"

There are plenty of people who love the game, but only bash because they feel they have to. And yes, little benefits can create emotional have tos. Making them re-earn what they already, to their minds, did something they didn't want to in order to get is disheartening and obnoxious. And completely unnecessary.

So, please make 50 weight +divine mana where applicable the base line, and make any increasing weight-essence system take place after that fact!
Unknown2012-02-12 14:23:12
We already have some ideas on what to replace Choke with, but we're kind of thrown off by the 'aeon-like but not aeon-like' requirements set by Estarra :|
Druken2012-02-12 14:23:52
Thank you. :/ I was getting nervous with everyone's insistence that we had to match things up perfectly with the EG. I just don't see how we can make both archetypes perfectly balanced that way. Night is the end-all for Shadowdancers, whereas the Ebonguard have really, really sharp things to hit people with.
Xenthos2012-02-12 14:57:46
Druken:

Thank you. :/ I was getting nervous with everyone's insistence that we had to match things up perfectly with the EG. I just don't see how we can make both archetypes perfectly balanced that way. Night is the end-all for Shadowdancers, whereas the Ebonguard have really, really sharp things to hit people with.

As an Ebonguard and one of the people who shares the skillset; it needs to be something that has some use to us as well. Choke is (or was) a helpful part of the arsenal, and just chucking it out without a replacement because 'other things in the skillset are good' doesn't exactly sit well.

Yes, it needs to mesh better with Shadowdancers. It is far more important to the SD offense; central to it, in fact. In Ebonguard hands it is more of a 'finishing move'. We can't just be dropped from the discussion though!