BRUMETOWER
Brumetower currently stops elevation movement 100%. It can be raised in shadowed rooms, but there can only be one Brumetower per Nightuser. Brumetower fades along with shadows (~5/10 minutes, I forgot exactly which).

• Slow down movement (like Shrine Gravity, but includes elevation changes such as raise staff/cudgel, Shamanism Sky, Environment Tumble (and furrikin roll)).
  
• Elevation movement also has a 50% chance of working (on top of being slowed down, as above).
  

OR

• Stop all physical lateral movement
  
• Will not stop elevation movement
  
• Cannot be used in conjunction with Bonds (stops all magical movement).
  
• 3p, fades when Nightuser leaves the room (lateral or elevation movement), when shadows fade (~5 minutes), or when Nightuser dies.
  

FLIGHT
Flight allows the caster to move an x number of rooms at random directions, at the cost of 1p per 2 rooms. It does not work through offbal/eq, paralysis, prone, and vine/web. It is magical, and is therefore unusable under enemy distort.

• Have it work through prone and vine/web.
  

OR

• SHADOWDANCE FLIGHT ; allows the caster to travel to the target at a short balance/eq cost. The balance loss will apply at the end, like Nature Flow, but the loss will be as long as Moon Moonbeam. No power if in the same area, 3p if in different area but same plane, 5p if in adjacent plane. It will have the same restrictions as Planar Teleport.
  

OR

• SHADOWDANCE FLIGHT ; allows the caster to summon a target, a la Tarot Empress.
  

For both Flight ideas, the target must be lusted to the caster (see below).



PENUMBRA
Penumbra is a 3-person coven ability that gives the participants superficial age 18 (meaning, no using it to work around family restrictions), a weighted +2 Charisma, and a small ego regeneration. It fades upon death and logout.

• Remove the inherent ego regeneration for Penumbra.
  
• In a shadowed room and if Penumbra is up, the Nightuser can SHADOWSMILE to make the target lusted to the Nightuser.
  

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So, these changes aim to 1) remove the 100% restriction of Brumetower, and 2) address the uselessness of Flight.

Good changes on brumetower.

Solution 2 on Flight. Being able to always work is a bit much.

Penumbra: Part 2 is meh.. it should not be lvl 5 regen in drink like health is. I like it as it is personally becauseI get use of it. No to part 3, just no.

Penumbra charisma buff is pretty powerful as is. Does it really need more? Moon's equivalent is.... a small amount of ego regen.

I'm not averse to removing the ego regen of Penumbra entirely.

Also, the Penumbra suggestion to have a Pheromones-like effect is currently passive. I'm also not averse to making it active, since Lust doesn't really do much by itself (except on bards and druids, and the other enemy-dependent abilities). Something like SMILE would make the target lusted to the Penumbra'd caster.

I like Brume as a gravity effect, though I don't like the slowed movement+chance of rejection. Bonds already blocks most kinds of elevation movement, except for druids, who rely on it.

I would be cool with Flight working through Entangle and similar, as well as prone, though not paralysis (since I don;t believe that any other panic buttons like Nature Flow work thorugh paralysis). I don't like the other two ideas at all. Idea 2 is some sort of uber tesseract/teleport monster that is most certainly OP, and for idea 3 the last thing that a lockdown class like SDs need it a way to summon you into their gank room.

If you want Penumbra to lust, then it needs to be active, and even then I would ask that most, if not all, of the ego regen be given up in exchange. Drink-level regen is already pretty insane, you don't need it for ego as well.

Brumetower change is good, I think. At least I don't see a problem with it.

Flight changes....no to all of them. Solution 1 is an instant tumble and you guys already have whirlwind for escapes. Just too good. Solution 2...what are the restrictions? It's a teleport ability, but to give you an example, Stealth ghostwalk costs 3p, has a delay, and will only go 15 rooms away. Sounds a bit too good too. Solution 3...I despise all forced movement skills, and adding another doesn't sound like a good idea. Specially given the SD's hindering abilities.

Pheremones is considered a very strong skill and is much hated by many many people. Let's not throw in another version of it.

I'll attempt brainstorming ideas.

Well, Moonbeam is same-area, slight delay, with the eq cost applying at the initiation. I'm not sure of Moonbeam works indoors, though. The proposed Flight-teleport would require the target to be lusted to the caster, hence it being faster and improved teleport/tesseract. It would be stopped by distortion at the caster's side, monolith on both ends...the same for regular teleport, basically. I'm thinking the delay between initiation and execution be around 5 seconds (regular teleport is ~10). The caster would then be off-eq for ~2 seconds (Nature Flow is ~4) after the execution (Moonbeam's eq cost applies at initiation, afaik).

Also, changed the OP to make the Penumbra lust active instead of passive.

P.S. Flow is same-area, forested, instantaneous, and costs eq.

P.P.S. What's this 'whirlwind for escapes'?

EDIT: P.P.P.S. Should the active lust be longer or shorter than reject (~4 seconds)?

foolofsound:

I like Brume as a gravity effect, though I don't like the slowed movement+chance of rejection. Bonds already blocks most kinds of elevation movement, except for druids, who rely on it.

Okay, I think there's a blur between Brumetower and Bonds. I will try and clear it up a little.

Brumetower 100% stops elevation movement, such as raise cudgel (to trees) and raise staff (to sky), Shamanism Sky (the offense, the one that throws you to the sky). It will also make it impossible to fly or climb to trees. You cannot fly from a room without Brumetower to a room with Brumetower (similar for trees).

Bonds is like a one-way room distortion. You will not be able to teleport, rad out of, wisp out of, mantra wind out of, etc., a Bonds room. However, you can teleport into, rad into, wisp into, mantra wind into, etc., a Bonds room.

P.P.S. What's this 'whirlwind for escapes'?
Wiccans don't get shamanism, Sahmiam.

EDIT: P.P.P.S. Should the active lust be longer or shorter than reject (~4 seconds)
About equal. Too short and you can basically keep bards/mages permalusted, too long and it won't hinder them enough.

Brumetower
If it is going to slow elevation changes, I don't feel that it also needs to have a chance to block them. Besides, Gravity is still a pretty powerful effect.

Flight
I'm cool with Flight being an improved tumble (somersault-esque) that costs power (probably 1-2, more for multiple rooms). If you want the EQ loss to be post movement, then it should cost more. I feel that Flight should be a panic button skill; that seems to be it's original intent.

Option 2 needs more restictions; perhaps only restricted to targets in shadowed rooms, and perhaps no adjacent plane movement.

Option 3 I really don't like on SDs, who focus on creating a gank room, with Drink, Brume, Bonds, ect. I feel that giving them a way to teleport you to their gank room is asking for trouble.

Penumbra
I'm fine with the edited version.

Ack. I meant squall, not whirlwind.

Squall is Crow, silly :P

EDIT: Changed the Flight 1 to not work through paralysis. Drink can cure it, so a Nightuser can just wait for that to tic properly.

EDIT: Personally I'm waiting for the Druids to come and comment, since they're the major recipients of Brumetower. Prod prod.

Squall is Crow, silly :P

EDIT: Changed the Flight 1 to not work through paralysis. Drink can cure it, so a Nightuser can just wait for that to tic properly.

EDIT: Personally I'm waiting for the Druids to come and comment, since they're the major recipients of Brumetower. Prod prod.


And now you see why I generally don't comment outside monks. If only other people did it.... Still, squall is a great escape and both tertiaries don't need one. Squall aside, the suggestion is too strong.

Flight would be a "Get out of Jail Free" card, and nullifies hindering completely. The harmony version is ridiculously strong, and it only goes one room away. Flight would be a better version of that, so no thanks. That said, if you go with a 2p cost and something between 7 to 10 sec eq loss, I could go with that.

That said, if you go with a 2p cost and something between 7 to 10 sec eq loss, I could go with that.

That would be fine, especially with the random multi-movement aspect.

I can see a change to brumetower, enemy only gravity would be cool.

There's no change needed to flight aside from allowing it to work past walls again, given it's magical travel.

There's no need to change penumbra.

Generally speaking, the chances for completely remaking a skill unless an admin says so is fairly low, just keep that in mind when suggesting reports.

Sojiro:

I can see a change to brumetower, enemy only gravity would be cool.

Enemy-only? No. Brume currently effects all, and as gravity it would continue to affect all, right?

I've suggested the gravity thing in the past and gotten shouted at. Similar to bonds, a gravity change to brumetower should be on everyone in the room. It's a very powerful effect.

I am extremely wary on it slowing or blocking sky though, as it costs 5p, and has no real effect as druids currently cannot strip levitation in any way . I am generally wary on having it slow or block ANY sort of forced movement. It should slow voluntary movement only, in my opinion, just as gravity only slows voluntary movement. This would still very much hinder druids, as they would have a MUCH harder time chasing you up and down in the trees, which is absolutely vital to druid offense.

So: Room gravity effect, that effects all exiting the room, working exactly as gravity does: Okay! I'd really prefer it didn't slow you moving up and down, because that means that it will become much harder to do any sort of sappy thing, but hopefully that will get changed anyways.

A gravity effect that works on everyone is even less useful for the Night user. Bonds (the closest equivalent) as it is hardly gets used unless the enemy team has a radder/wisper and we don't. Furthermore, room gravity will presumably extend to only exiting the room, unless brumetower is somehow sprinkled about the area, which is not possible, given that it was envoyed that only one brumetower exist at a time.

In fact, slowing voluntary exiting a room for everyone isn't as useful preventing all sorts of magical movement. You want to know why? Because that kind of movement is only important when you're trying to get away. And most people get away by tumbling. I will admit that there is also leap which is delayed, but tumbling is definitely the big one and you know what significantly delays chasing a tumbler? A gravity effect that affects you as well.

Furthermore, gravity doesn't affect room separation moves. If an enemy walks in and scissors you, will be instantly kicked out (barring resists), and so you're free to just walk back in with no delay (since room gravity only works in the target room). Not as good as you'd think.

You want a better, more useful suggestion for brumetower? Make it bonds but for physical movement. Have them be exclusive to one another. Boom, solved.

TL;DR: Gravity for all effect is a lot worse than you'd think, don't cave to pressure over brumetower hate and make changes on your own terms.

Edit: I can only support gravity for all only if it's a much, much better version of standard gravity that does all the things Al suggests or whatever else. Never standard room gravity though.

No, that's the solution I and several other people came to after thinking about it, for quite a bit. I understand the shortcomings of it, and how it relates to what brume does now. If the issue that brumetower solved for the shadowdancer was both "People run away through the trees/climbing up" and "You can get forcepulled up out of choke." The suggested solution fixes the first one and the second one isn't relevant.

(As a side note, it is possible to 'sprinkle brumetower around the area'. How long has it been since you only had 1 Night user in the entire commune?)

The suggestion also slows down the tumbler as they are trying to move (he mentioned somersault, at least), which means you have exactly as long as normal to move to chase the tumbler. You are slowed by x seconds, but so is their tumble. So I fail to see the issue there.

I have no delusions about how 'good' or 'ungood' the solution is. I intend for it to be nerfed, and it's just not appropriate to have a skill that has a 50% chance to block a 5p, limited terrain (outdoors), limited usage skill (must take up a trance slot), with no drawback. Similarly, it's not alright to give it a chance to block valley smudge, a comm cost (true, a low one), obvious, delayed attack. Having both room distort and room gravity is pretty strong, I'm not sure what the issue is with that.

Anyways, I can even see requesting that it slows movement into the room, I'm know that in some fashion all movements check data about the room they are moving you into, and could see making this skill 'effect' all adjacent rooms, in the direction of the brumed room.

Making it block physical movements as bonds blocks magical would work also, really. As long as you can't do that while in an distort effect. No shrine/discretionary distort AND 100% physical blocking, please.

I suppose Shuyin has a point. OK then, enemy only gravity, though I still am wary of lateral movement blocking, and perhaps it should refrain from stopping forced movement.

Also, if the goal is to mitigate movement performed on you by other people (raise cudgel, sky, and so on), it won't work if it's an enemy only gravity...

EDIT: and on second thought, physical movement stopping wouldn't work out either. It would work exactly as brume does now (all druid's tree movement skills are physical) plus extras.

EDIT: Yes, I thought of it hitting everyone but the caster, that's totally fine by me. I'd say everyone but the caster and their allies, but that's the same as enemies only because of miles long lust lists.

EDIT: Thinking about it even more. If it were to be an enemy only gravity on climbing up/down, that didn't effect any of our forced tree movement, it wouldn't be possible to sap anyone who is paying any attention. Assuming it's a what, 1 second delay, my demesne pulls you up, I go to chase you and get there a minimum of 1 second later. By that time, you've already cured out of my demesne and can climb down. If I plan to get there before you, I climb up. This takes me one second. I then must cling to not be knocked down immediately by sylph. By the time I've done this, you can simply shield and be safe. Making it a gravity skill that works in merely this basic fashion will in effect be keeping the same ability of brumetower to totally negate druids, as well as adding on extras.