Maybe it is time to collect some ideas to make domoths more interesting again. As is, they're basically a timesink for the people holding them that returns some power to the org and some essence to the holder, if they get the crown.
Fighting is more the rare exception than the rule.

One part of the problem are shrines, which have been and are being worked on.

Another part is that the holder can freely choose when to upgrade, which means it mostly happens when they have superior numbers in their support.
One means of countering that problem is making use of absolving domoths. However, this is not a desirable option since it is destructive in nature (as opposed to upgrading domoths or winning over villages, which will have the victor gain something instead of just destroying someone else's work). This is probably the main reason why we don't see mass absolving, even when enemied orgs hold the opposed domoths (it has happened recently, I'm aware of that, but it is tedious business with little rewards and doesn't always entail a fight, either).

Here are my ideas to improve the situation:

1. Make dormancy times invisible. That will help making the initial claim of the domoth even less a matter of preparation and thus more random. As it is, even at off-peak hours, orgs may simply have people who stay awake or log on specifically for the domoth since they can plan it.

2. Make starting a domoth upgrade (and absolve) only possible in rather short (~30 mins perhaps) time windows that occur randomly 2-5 times a day. That way, you cannot just upgrade whenever you have the upper hand.


Comments and more ideas welcome!

I totally agree. We've gone down other routes and gotten nowhere. I guess some people will interpret this as villages no. 2, but I see that as a good thing. Totally support this.

Domoths had been providing quite a good amount of conflict just prior to you coming back I think. Current lull in domoth conflict I would (personally) put down as mainly due to alliance vs individual orgs.

http://forums.luster...ndpost&p=860983

Expressed my own frustrations with domoth system in that post and following ones, if you care to look. Don't know if you were around for it. The domotheon aetherspace idea ended up more an initiate discussion suggestion, than a realistic one. Though I did like the 'ascendants not currently occupying a throne could challenge' idea that got mentioned.

I like your dormancy invisible suggestion, unsure on the second.

I believe the bombardment idea would mostly result in people bombarding in off hours. But the occasional aetherfight for it is better than none, I guess, so why not, as long as it doesn't nullify the whole domoth upgrade too easily.

Shrines and the way absolve works really stomps out domothing. Even if the underdog manages to win a domoth once in a rare fight, they're not going to be able to keep it thanks to insta-absolving. If you're only capable of the occasional win instead of consistently winning, its just a discouraging system when it gets lost again in a few days.

The current alliance doesn't help, but really even when Ironhart was around before it dissolved domoths were so one-sided and discouraging that people stopping caring except for maybe the occasional chance to do some fighting. Do people even fight over domoths at all anymore these days?

Edit: To add something constructive, absolve really needs a change if domoths are to be dynamic. For instance a grace period where its possible to upgrade without the risk of absolve. I like the idea of set windows for upgrades/absolving as well. But honestly, I doubt domoths will become anything more than a "one alliance to rule them all" deal anytime soon. It would be nice if it was possible to claim one without insta-losing it though.

Actually, by solely removing the option to absolve (even if only for a certain amount of time), you make the whole domoth mechanic less dynamic, not more so. If everything else remains the same, it will just make the 'Upgrading while we have more' routine even more untouchable.

I'm all for finding something to replace absolving (maybe Ushaara's aetherspace idea could replace it altogether), but without more changes aside from that, the amount of domoth claims that don't just consist of bashing mobs would hardly increase.

Your second suggestion has merit, Veyrzhul, but not so sure about the first. Making it invisible would be annoying. It's already a chore and not knowing when I need to be present for an upgrade would have everyone constantly on watch for an opening. That's not fun. That's like waiting for a revolt even when you've pinpointed a date/time where it -might- occur.

I disagree that putting restrictions on absolving will cause it to be less dynamic. I for one stopped caring about domoths long ago exactly because of how absolve works. Why bother when the fully upgraded enemy domoth will just instantly absolve it if you don't upgrade right away, which is a problem if you only sporadically have the strength to win a fight.

I didn't say cut it out completely, but it needs a large overhaul.

I would note that Absolving falls into the "Only do this when we have more" thing that upgrading does.

Turnus:

I disagree that putting restrictions on absolving will cause it to be less dynamic. I for one stopped caring about domoths long ago exactly because of how absolve works. Why bother when the fully upgraded enemy domoth will just instantly absolve it if you don't upgrade right away, which is a problem if you only sporadically have the strength to win a fight.

I didn't say cut it out completely, but it needs a large overhaul.

Absolves were somewhat rare until recently-ish. There have been plenty of times where Magnagora and Glomdoring have held opposing domoths until expiration. I hate to go there but Serenwilde has a historical apathetic approach to things and even when they had ascendants online they rarely sought to claim domoths, preferring to support Magnagoran ascendants. If you personally stopped because of absolve, I just have no idea why.

Edit: Also, domoths were meant to be heavily contested over. Why do you feel that once a domoth is won, it should never come under threat until expiration? How would that differ from aetherbubbles or villages acquired? You get absolved, you get your people together and you try to upgrade. You have your ascendants hold so they can absolve back. It is supposed to be a tug of war. If you don't find that fun, fine. Don't raise ascendants then.

Enyalida:

I would note that Absolving falls into the "Only do this when we have more" thing that upgrading does.

That's why idea 2 addresses both.

There comes a point after long enough where saying "just try harder" doesn't help.

And my entire point was not "get rid of absolve." Its, make the system so that an org that is often understrengthed is able to compete. If you don't have the strength to upgrade immediately you will get absolved in my experience. And because you don't have the strength to upgrade, you aren't going to have the strength to defend. Its that sort of cycle leads to my own thought of "why bother"

Edit: If domoths are boring, its probably in large part because other people have the same thoughts. I would love to participate in domoths again, but the way things are at the moment I choose to opt out.

Why not restrict Aetherbubbles to only holding X amount of people from 123456 Organization? If each org can only "beam me up scotty" X amount of people, the undermatched people can lay some claim with their 2-3 fighters when another org is rolling 7-8.

I proposed I felt that making absolves function as only the absolving group vs the defending group would make Domoth's more interesting and would allow for those without alliances to maintain a domoth that they had won. But frankly right now the problem is that Hallifax/Serenwilde/Mag aren't going to be allied again, and Celest/Gaudi/Glom are still allied, So of course you're going to win all the domoths and not have fights. If you want it to change, change your alliance. If you're fine with owning all the domoths and not ever having a fight for them, or if another org wins a domoth immediately absolving them down with 4x their numbers. KEep up what you are doing. This is the same issue as everyone yelling at me for wanting to change domoths because we don't have allies, you're wanting to change them because you do have allies.

I'd also note your concept of only doing it when you have more numbers is a decision you make, the only upgrade Hallifax made was when Hallifax only had Shedrin/Morbo as demigods, but the enemy alliance had Shuyin (who logged out after we started the challenge) Draylor, Azula, Placeus. So double our numbers, we still challenged and Shedrin will tell you he was extremely nervous because I held the domoth and I wanted to do it then even though it was a risk. If you want challenges to happen when you don't have more numbers, do it when you don't have more numbers.

After trying to claim and hold a few Domoths myself, first as a demigod and then as an ascendant, I saw the burden of time and responsibility that goes with it all. If you're one who is online many hours a day, it may just be one more "job" you have to do to keep your org winning. However, if you have limited time, you're pretty well screwed on being the one to hold and upgrade any Domoth.

I really like the idea of removing the notification of dormancy periods. I also think shrines should still be more limited on powers you can invoke and that defiling should be made as easy as sanctifying.

It sucks to be bored. It sucks to be apathetic. The situation isn't going to change until something pushes it pretty hard.

@Morbo: If anything, from my pov, it looks like you guys will only challenge or contest when you have the upper hand and there isn't anything necessarily wrong with that. Everyone wants to have their fighters on when they go into something. Draylor lost a domoth when he challenged with only two capable defenders (he and myself) so you can't claim Celest doesn't make an attempt when its chips are down. We didn't even raise the shrine on the bubble where we lost and Hallifax, having greater numbers raised and utilized one. Most of our upgrades are pretty quiet with anywhere from 3-6 people with our key allies holding the opposing domoth and unable to assist if we get resistance.

If you want domoths to be more dynamic and for steals to occur more frequently / be more possible, just do this:

*Disable the absolving, dormancy, and passive essence drain systems of domoths.

*Implement windows for upgrades which you can sense via astrogaze.

*Allow steals to happen during any stage. Possibly make it so only one "successful" steal will be allowed.

*Change Stage 1 to only allow the upgrading org and one challenging org up. A mechanic will need to be implemented to ensure this doesn't get gamed.
--Suggestion: Have the challenging org pay a certain amount of power/gold for an item that will allow the challenge. This cost will be very high. Furthermore, this item will only be purchaseable once every x IC years, to ensure that even if it's gamed, it only happens once.
--Suggestion 2: Allow orgs to mechanically declare hostilities against each other (requiring council approval). Use this mechanic and tie it with domoths.
--Suggestion 3: Make this item be the result of converting your org's construct to a domothing weapon. You lose your org's construct if you use this ability, and can't rebuild it until the next aetherflare. Even the "permanent" ones.

*Leave Stage 2 more or less as is.

*Change Stage 3 to only allow a single challenger and the upgrader to enter the throne/domoth realms. The same mechanic as above will be needed here.

*Adjust the time required for each stage to take into account being able to steal if needed.

*Adjust the rewards as well if needed.

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This idea removes the absolving system, which only serves to be discouraging and isn't a very good source of conflict in general. It also allows for more dynamic upgrades since the element of danger exists in every stage. It also allows for all kinds of conflict: org vs. org, alliance vs. alliance, and 1v1. This caters to every kind of conflict. If your org isn't very strong in x, then maybe you can give it a try on y.

Doesn't it also ensure that if you're not good at all three, you'll get screwed on one of them? Maybe we have the numbers, but the claimant is not as strong as the potential challengers, so you've got a fair chance of going through the first two stages for it to all be lost in the third.

And, requiring orgs to pay for a challenge seems like a kick in the ribs, too.

Ushaara:

Domoths had been providing quite a good amount of conflict just prior to you coming back I think. Current lull in domoth conflict I would (personally) put down as mainly due to alliance vs individual orgs.

qft

Nothing in the Domoths changed that made them be boring - it's the players that did. Changing Domoths will unlikely change the scene.