Snippet:

M: 6706|7080, E: 6335|6335, P: 9, EN: 27900, WI: 22175 lrsSidbkr
You feel your will manipulated by a pooka.
You already have metawake turned off.

### MARKED THIS IN BOLD SO NOONE WILL MISS IT: FROM HERE ON IT DOESN'T
MATTER ANY MORE THAT METAWAKE WAS NOT UP SINCE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN STRIPPED, ANYWAY. THANK YOU. ###

H: 7918|7918, M: 6706|7080, E: 6335|6335, P: 9, EN: 27900, WI: 22175 lrsSidbkr
Nolan, the Lunar Hare rears back and unhinges his jaws, releasing a scintillating cloud of sparkling motes.
Your insomnia has cleared up.
H: 7918|7918, M: 6706|7080, E: 6335|6335, P: 9, EN: 27890, WI: 22175 lrsSidbkr (insomnia)
Sondayga grabs some glowing glyphs and throws them at you.
H: 7918|7918, M: 6706|7080, E: 6335|6335, P: 9, EN: 27870, WI: 22175 lrsSidbr (focus mind|eat kafe|outr kafe)
You are asleep and can do nothing. WAKE will attempt to wake you.
?:H: 7918|7918, M: 7080|7080, E: 6335|6335, P: 9, EN: 27870, WI: 22175 lrsSidbrp (wake up)
You are asleep and can do nothing. WAKE will attempt to wake you.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27870, WI: 22175 lrsSidbrp
You are asleep and can do nothing. WAKE will attempt to wake you.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27870, WI: 22175 lrsSidbrp
You are asleep and can do nothing. WAKE will attempt to wake you.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27870, WI: 22175 lrsSidbrp
You begin your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27870, WI: 22175 lrsSidbrp
You may be healed by a scroll again.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27870, WI: 22175 lrsSidbrp
Drawing back on his tiny bow, a pixie shoots an arrow straight at you.
A banshee stares at you, then suddenly emits a high-pitched screech at you. The soundwaves pierce into your very being, weakening you in both body and
mind.
Your magic tome warms as it absorbs damage.
The crone crosses her shriveled arms and turns her dark, penetrating gaze upon you.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27880, WI: 22175 lrsSidbrp
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27880, WI: 22175 xlrsSidbrp
Sondayga grabs some glowing glyphs and throws them at you.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27880, WI: 22175 xlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27880, WI: 22175 xlrsSidbrp
You have recovered equilibrium.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27880, WI: 22175 exlrsSidbrp
(m&m): System unpaused.
H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27880, WI: 22175 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27900, WI: 22203 exlrsSidbrp
With a slow, jerking dance, Sondayga points at you and lowers his arms, and you feel the world about you slow.
Suddenly your movements through the time stream are slowed.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27900, WI: 22203 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27900, WI: 22203 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 9, EN: 27900, WI: 22203 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 22203 exlrsSidbrp
A leprechaun bumps into you and quickly apologises.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 22231 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 22231 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 22231 exlrsSidbrp
Sondayga grabs some glowing glyphs and throws them at you.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27890, WI: 22231 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27890, WI: 22231 exlrsSidbrp
Whispering to himself, Sondayga points at you and a silver light flashes across your field of vision.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27890, WI: 22231 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27890, WI: 22231 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 22259 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 22259 exlrsSidbrp
A brownie runs up and tickles your sides.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 22259 elrsSidbrp
You may take another dose of allheale.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 22259 elrsSidbrp
A silver light weighs upon you, draining your mental energies.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 22259 elrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 22259 elrsSidbrp
Drawing back on his tiny bow, a pixie shoots an arrow straight at you.
A banshee stares at you, then suddenly emits a high-pitched screech at you. The soundwaves pierce into your very being, weakening you in both body and
mind.
Your magic tome warms as it absorbs damage.
The crone crosses her shriveled arms and turns her dark, penetrating gaze upon you.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 26400 elrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 26400 elrsSidbrp
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 26400 exlrsSidbrp
Sondayga stares at you with a burning intensity.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 26400 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 26400 exlrsSidbrp
With a slow, jerking dance, Sondayga points at you and lowers his arms, and you feel the world about you slow.
Suddenly your movements through the time stream are slowed.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 26400 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 26400 exlrsSidbrp
A silver light weighs upon you, draining your mental energies.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 26400 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 26400 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 26400 exlrsSidbrp
A leprechaun bumps into you and quickly apologises.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 26400 exlrsSidbrp
You continue your struggle to escape from the dreamworld.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 26400 exlrsSidbrp
Sondayga stares at you with a burning intensity.
?:H: 5621|7918, M: 5026|7080, E: 4497|6335, P: 10, EN: 27900, WI: 26400 exlrsSidbrp
Eyes flashing with anger, Sondayga points a finger imperiously at you and utters a series of guttural croaks. A strange thrumming fills your stomach,
and you watch in horror as warts break out over your skin which then turns green and slimy. The world seems to suddenly become much larger...or are
you becoming smaller? Hmm, why do you have a sudden craving for flies?
Your illusion of being kephera fades away.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Was asleep for 18 seconds, could not do ANYTHING at all (yea, metawake wasn't up, but it wouldn't have changed a thing there, as you can see).

It takes almost no preparation to pull this off, and it's just very stupid.

Idea: Make pooka ordering take balance - should be more than just a second, though, or the other person cannot do anything offensively OR it can be short, but metawake can be put up off bal/eq - OR limit the time one can be asleep when trying to wake (not sure about how long, maybe 8 seconds or so max), so that the wicca has to put you to sleep more than once and actually work for the kill.

It does take preparation, and Sondayga knows his stuff.

Inquisition, on the other hand... well, let's not go there, but suffice to say this is not the worst of the issues with game balance, not by a long shot.

It takes no preparation beyond getting the pooka to be able to order you. How is something that instantly disables you until death not one of the worst balance issues?

That took more than one try, like three or four. The issue isn't pooka but your quicksilver upkeep.

And I did use more hexes to put you to sleep, actually panic'd because I didn't have them already drawn on my palm and thought you where going to wake up before I could draw them.

It takes more tries because waking doesn't always fail like this. Please explain how quicksilver was of any relevance here at all.

Zarquan:

It does take preparation, and Sondayga knows his stuff.

Inquisition, on the other hand... well, let's not go there, but suffice to say this is not the worst of the issues with game balance, not by a long shot.

Inquisition: Requires two actions at well known intervals, can be stopped by shielding and running at any time from the commencement and the completion (at least) 15 seconds later.

Hexen wicca sleeplock: Requires beast with sleepcloud, pixie timed before combat. Cannot be stopped once following macro is mashed (except by dreamweavers - nerf dreamweavers)

{order target metawake off;enemy target;beast order breathe sleepcloud;order pixie kill target;doublewhammy target with sleep sleep}

Can you point out exactly how these two tactics are comparable?

Placeus:

{order target metawake off;enemy x;beast order breathe sleepcloud;order pixie kill x;doublewhammy target with sleep sleep}

It takes a lot more than that.. there was stupidity/anorexia involved and crone affs along with aeon where quicksilver was stripped before the sleeping even happened

Just reread the log to make sure I wasn't missing something. Perhaps I still am.

Could you point out where aeon, quicksilver, stupidity or anorexia stop Veyrzhul from escaping the toadcurse in his log given that he was asleep and unable to attempt actions that are hindered by these afflictions?

Yeah, Wiccans have always been like this. It's pretty much a roll of the dice if you can kill them before you get unlucky on your wake ticks. They are the best 1v1 archetype in the game by a significant margin. As Ciban, I used to regularly 1v1 kill people I really had no business being able to take in a fight as a level 80 mugwump moondancer.

Fortunately this tactic has zero relevance in groups so it doesn't really matter outside the arena.

Sleeplock is pretty well-known to be overly strong now that it saps a little bit of endurance along with being a beast power; not sure we'll ever see it envoyed, but when 'prepping' doesn't really take anything but trying a couple of things over and over (with very minor power usage each try), it's not really 'knowing your stuff'.

There's ways around it and you have worse skills that probably need envoying first. Btw, this is one of the few and most reliable ways a moondancer can pull off a kill 1v1, and there's plenty of situations where it just plain doesn't work.

Rivius:

There's ways around it and you have worse skills that probably need envoying first. Btw, this is one of the few and most reliable ways a moondancer can pull off a kill 1v1, and there's plenty of situations where it just plain doesn't work.

There's no way around being asleep for 18+ seconds after metawake is forced off. :P

All it takes is trying the same thing over and over until the sleep sticks.

i will admit that is the longest wake attempt I've noticed, so I feel like there has to have been something making it take that long, not sure if the aeon had something to do with it, or perhaps a bug with pixie maybe hitting around the same time you where supposed to be waking, or stupidity stopping it but not being notified. I did throw extra sleep hexes as while I waited

Oh, I forgot to mention. The best counter to sleeplocks is to keep an affliction on you (e.g. ablaze) that deals damage. (Although a smart wiccan will try to put out your ablaze with cleanse or nature rain. I can't remember what other affs work for this.)

Xenthos:

There's no way around being asleep for 18+ seconds after metawake is forced off. :P

All it takes is trying the same thing over and over until the sleep sticks.

There's plenty of ways to interrupt him before he gets you asleep. Trust me, I've sparred sondayga a million times since I've started playing and I know there's ways to stop him. Take the time to figure it out and instead of belittling the skill it takes to be a good moondancer as opposed to being a good mage or celestine ;)

Shamarah:

Yeah, Wiccans have always been like this. It's pretty much a roll of the dice if you can kill them before you get unlucky on your wake ticks.

The problem is that most classes cannot kill them at all if all they do between their sleeplock attempts is run away (like Sondayga). It's the same issue as with sap in that respect, burst offense with lock down of the enemy at the start should not exist IMO.

Here's my log of that if anyone is interested

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24993010/VeyrzhulSleepLocked.html

Not to distract from the thrilling discussion, but Inquisition taking 15 seconds from start to finish is a good argument for changing it. Honestly, I think it just needs to throw the caster off equilibrium for a second when the target isn't ready instead of allowing you to spam it at no cost. Your timing is irrelevant when you can just spam it.

More on topic, maybe you should go after the ents first, especially if you don't believe in metawake.

Those ents, that by the way, are one-shottable unlike yours. ;)

Shamarah:

Oh, I forgot to mention. The best counter to sleeplocks is to keep an affliction on you (e.g. ablaze) that deals damage. (Although a smart wiccan will try to put out your ablaze with cleanse or nature rain. I can't remember what other affs work for this.)

Yea, I had come up with the ablaze idea, too, but it's still just something that increases the necessary attempts to pull this off, on average (depending on whether damage ticks before you get cleansed or not).

There's plenty of ways to interrupt him before he gets you asleep.

Please name but a few. And please no 'Kill the pooka.'