Hi there,

Been thinking about this one for awhile. I'd love to see some more distant areas reachable via aetherspace, and I've got a few ideas of how that could be accomplished.

1. There being five planes looks fixed at this point, but I bet there's still room for a pseudo plane. If there was an area adjacent to prime where aether and planar energy mixed freely, you could, say..

- Have players navigate it in special suits
- Allow ships through while taking damage and/or require some kind of module
- require certain skills (goodbye gatemaster?)
- even require "sponsoring" forays into it with power from your org

2. It wouldn't be entirely unfeasible that primal gods and soulless gods left a "wake" of some kind of energy when moving through the void. These could form thin trails that aetherships could follow, at risk of imploding if they stray from the path.

3. Allow an empath to link to an existing network (left by who?) and yank the ship along it to remote aetherspaces.

Now, where would you go? Remote aetherways! These would be smaller, without all the rifts and massive amounts of bubbles, and have unique creatures roaming them. I also suspect they'd have unique environments or a lot of "near the void." There's plenty of things that could be used to populate them, too:
- Abandoned nexi
- Old vernal godrealms
- Planetary and other celestial bubbles
- Other cosmic planes

What ya think?

Doesn't the spirit realm closely parallel prime?

There being places that you can only reach via ship would be super cool. As much as I like bubblixes, I miss this aspect of aetherspace very much. Expanding in this way would return a reason to learn the skill that goes beyond hunting/flares ie, for explorers not just combatants.

Space Aether suits sound awesome. I smell new tinkering abilities. With some sort of... algontherine whosiwhatsit that has a ridiculously expensive gold outlay. (Similar to chops for bookbinding)

I'm not thrilled about the taking damage thing or requiring it to be tied to an org expidition since I'm solidly in support of keeping aetherspace navigable by solo pilots for a variety of reasons -- however if you would like to tie it to orgs, maybe people could explore safely without a suit if they are in a colossus. We could even leave the colossi there for research purposes. So like McMurdo, but with the occasional chance for colossi fights.

In the space itself, maybe taking damage w/o this module? Maybe artifact. I like the idea of linking in a pilot ability with the skill of planar - however I also like the ability of aethercraft being a self-contained skill. Torn.

Anyway, more all of this. No secret that aspace is my favorite part of the game.

Looking forward to discovering vast, uncharted lands full of high-level creatures weak to excorable, and magic, and quests that allow you to temporarily take on the race of "gnome" and "fink".

That's the idea! There's lots that could be done with the places, too. Say, capturing foreign cosmic emenations for your own benefit, or drawing accumulated power from long abandoned nexi, or even going into their "nexus world" and working on a power quest to load up your docked ship. Vernal godrealms could be great to explore, and would add a bit more depth and relevance to the vernal wars (not that it's not already relevant!).

I adore any idea that makes aetherspace more abundant and particular. I'd love it if there were some nexus worlds strewn about, linked to city/commune portals you couldn't dock at (just like you can't dock at other orgs' portals without permission). You could get into the nexus worlds, though.

Along the lines of tinkering becoming more aetherspacey/being more in-tune with the aethers, I am legit scheming up an entire like...aethermancy skillset that I'll submit (and of which I expect to see no results). Something like melding aetherspace, being able to exist out in it, having affinity with the beasts out there (slivven familiars?), stuff like that.

Honestly, my biggest Lusternian dream is to have an aethercommune.

I don't really have anything against expanding Aetherspace, but I feel like there's a few critical misperceptions with the ideas here.

The space between/adjacent to the planes is the Aetherway - it's where everything is in a kind of quasi-existence, forming and unforming. Some places (slip-stream) are very thin, while others are very thick. Some are so 'solid' they can't be passed through.

There are only four Nexuses of Power in existence - the Pool of Stars, the Eternal Flame, the Matrix, and the Megalith. These are the only four that have ever existed - the Pool of Stars being the first, which was destroyed and later rebuilt. There aren't 'abandoned' nexuses with 'abandoned' nexus worlds - likewise, godrealms were a recent creation. Of course there are arguably similar pockets out there (ie Crumkindivia, Cankermore both hold pockets of creation where Gods stored things valuable to them), that's what basic aetherbubbles are.

And I'm not sure how many people would be willing to endure the process it takes to survive in Aetherspace without a vessel. Just ask the "survivors" of Project Touchstone.

Onenmaru was probably thinking about the Edifices from the Vernal wars when mentioning nexii. And I think as far as players have learned about them, they seem to be functionaly the same thing. So maybe they had a parallel to nexus worlds, and though all the old edifices were destroyed maybe some genius survivors figured out some way to detach that bubble and set it loose in aetherspace to avoid being devoured by soulless 'cus they weren't ready to raise a Vernal. Crazier things have probably happened.

Eventru:

And I'm not sure how many people would be willing to endure the process it takes to survive in Aetherspace without a vessel. Just ask the "survivors" of Project Touchstone.

I'm pretty sure most blademasters would be all over nagafication, if only to get an extra pair of arms to hold swords in.

That said, I'd be all over distant cosmic planes with crazy half-formed and strange living templates to put down. Or some dead continuum-equse planes full of living templates. Can you say Charune-angels?

Greleag:

Can you say Charune-angels?

Who says angels from another creche look any different than the ones on Celestia...?

Or, likewise, that they don't. My my.

Not to turn the thread into a discourse on the nature of gods! What similarities may or may not have existed between Edifices and Nexuses aside, I note that they are two distinct constructs. How distinct is left to the historians to debate!

I'm not saying 'yes' or 'no' to the idea, or even attempting to tear it down persay, but I do feel the need to point out inaccuracies, in hopes discourse follows a better direction!

Eventru:

I don't really have anything against expanding Aetherspace, but I feel like there's a few critical misperceptions with the ideas here.

The space between/adjacent to the planes is the Aetherway - it's where everything is in a kind of quasi-existence, forming and unforming. Some places (slip-stream) are very thin, while others are very thick. Some are so 'solid' they can't be passed through.

There are only four Nexuses of Power in existence - the Pool of Stars, the Eternal Flame, the Matrix, and the Megalith. These are the only four that have ever existed - the Pool of Stars being the first, which was destroyed and later rebuilt. There aren't 'abandoned' nexuses with 'abandoned' nexus worlds - likewise, godrealms were a recent creation. Of course there are arguably similar pockets out there (ie Crumkindivia, Cankermore both hold pockets of creation where Gods stored things valuable to them), that's what basic aetherbubbles are.

And I'm not sure how many people would be willing to endure the process it takes to survive in Aetherspace without a vessel. Just ask the "survivors" of Project Touchstone.

I wasn't aware that nexi were different from edifices, but that arguably makes it more feasible. This idea stems from a concept of aetherspace as one of several "bubbles" of quasi reality in the void, as an extension of the idea that void is an energy type. I don't know if that's "new", but the concept is definitely present in thelema, whose influence(intentional or not) is pretty obvious! Idunno, maybe I'm just seeing what I want to.

And the godrealms idea was purely a shot in the dark, because I didn't know if vernals even had them. Elostian's seems to have stuck around for the time being, is why I thought it had potential.

Cosmic planes on the other hand screams legit to me, especially with that half formed Mysrai used to reach the beacon.. which you lot left strewn all over. Messy! :D

Onenmaru:


I wasn't aware that nexi were different from edifices, but that arguably makes it more feasible. This idea stems from a concept of aetherspace as one of several "bubbles" of quasi reality in the void, as an extension of the idea that void is an energy type. I don't know if that's "new", but the concept is definitely present in thelema, whose influence(intentional or not) is pretty obvious! Idunno, maybe I'm just seeing what I want to.

And the godrealms idea was purely a shot in the dark, because I didn't know if vernals even had them. Elostian's seems to have stuck around for the time being, is why I thought it had potential.

Cosmic planes on the other hand screams legit to me, especially with that half formed Mysrai used to reach the beacon.. which you lot left strewn all over. Messy! :D

Re godrealms, it's an argument that could be made either way - I suppose it's down to how they're sustained. If they're sustained solely by the active effort of a Divine, then the removal of its energy source would mean it might collapse on itself. If they're constructed and self-sustaining in construction, then they'd persist, albeit perhaps diminished in some capacity (see Hajamin's old temple).

Of course, one could argue that such cannot be proven based off of Elostian - his essence was absorbed into the Collective, and there's no certainty, one way or another, as to if he still exists in some capacity. Perhaps the Collective completely used his essence to fight off Kethuru. Perhaps Elostian's realm is actually the Collective's now and nobody has yet realized it. Whoooo knows!

Though I continue my point, they didn't exist until the minigods event conclusion. Probably the closest one would find to them was Crumkane's Crumkindivia and Urlach's Cankermore. There's an argument to be made that most Vernals may never have knew the Aetherways existed - few seemed to have explored beyond the Prime plane (Kiakoda and the fae, Dionamus and Celestia being the only noted examples - and Urlach and his catacombs, twisty and confusing as they are).

I don't think Cosmic Planes are likely - I won't really get into why, but I've a fairly strong impression we don't want to release ones that aren't linked to a Nexus.

Again, I'm not saying there isn't room for expansion! I'm just arguing the technicalities of your points, specifically. Because I'm pedantic like that...

Eventru:


Re godrealms, it's an argument that could be made either way - I suppose it's down to how they're sustained. If they're sustained solely by the active effort of a Divine, then the removal of its energy source would mean it might collapse on itself. If they're constructed and self-sustaining in construction, then they'd persist, albeit perhaps diminished in some capacity (see Hajamin's old temple).

Of course, one could argue that such cannot be proven based off of Elostian - his essence was absorbed into the Collective, and there's no certainty, one way or another, as to if he still exists in some capacity. Perhaps the Collective completely used his essence to fight off Kethuru. Perhaps Elostian's realm is actually the Collective's now and nobody has yet realized it. Whoooo knows!

Though I continue my point, they didn't exist until the minigods event conclusion. Probably the closest one would find to them was Crumkane's Crumkindivia and Urlach's Cankermore. There's an argument to be made that most Vernals may never have knew the Aetherways existed - few seemed to have explored beyond the Prime plane (Kiakoda and the fae, Dionamus and Celestia being the only noted examples - and Urlach and his catacombs, twisty and confusing as they are).

I don't think Cosmic Planes are likely - I won't really get into why, but I've a fairly strong impression we don't want to release ones that aren't linked to a Nexus.

Again, I'm not saying there isn't room for expansion! I'm just arguing the technicalities of your points, specifically. Because I'm pedantic like that...

And it's good to have feedback from somebody who'd have a better idea of how viable it is. I don't get why cosmic planes sans nexus is bad, but I'll leave that alone.

Abandoned edifices still strikes me as a great idea, but they don't necessarily need to be a source of power. Who knows what their construction could have entailed? Maybe questy artifacts that change hands whenever someone empowers the things, or last for a limited time but give some neat verb/utility, which we already have an example of.

As long as we're assuming only things inside mountain basins or isolated areas survived, maybe village sized pocket-areas on prime? That would entail construction of docks, but I can't help but envision a tropical/native village outside of the basin, mountains on one side and magically irradiated sea on the other. Not that I'm suggesting villages that revolt, or anything like that, but flavor areas.

Eventru:

Who says angels from another creche look any different than the ones on Celestia...?

The 'angels' that surrounded the Dreadform of Iklara were all worm-shaped. I figured they were pretty representative of what a crazy half-formed's living templates would end up looking like.

Greleag:


The 'angels' that surrounded the Dreadform of Iklara were all worm-shaped. I figured they were pretty representative of what a crazy half-formed's living templates would end up looking like.

Sure, but was the Dreadform changed at all during its insanity? I note that when talking about half-formed that were hunted repeatedly in a particular place (the nacrescape, IIRC?), and kept reforming over the aeons, the Elders were theorizing it was the same one. This suggests their form was not identical - otherwise they wouldn't be theorizing. So once they go crazy, who knows what effects it will have? It was noted in the histories that the Hamadhi have a saying, referencing the tendency for the body to reflect the soul. Thus the excoroperditio causes physical transformation - see Sun's corruption and the sun changing colour. I don't know about there being templates with the Dreadform - I just remember it being alone, then splitting apart. Even still, half-formed have been known to be able to manipulate template-essence (Raziela creating angels from fae, for example).

One could argue that some of the Elder Gods (Charune, Hoaracle, etc) did not, in fact, look as they do now. Likewise, in the histories it is noted Tae took on the appearance of His creation, Bear - implying Tae did not, in fact, look like that. The same occurred with Loboshi, IIRC, and Aslarn. It was commented that Elfenehoala's shards took on a green complexion. One could extrapolate this further to suggest every Elder did not look like their mortal shards, except perhaps Xyl. Look at races like Krokani, Clangoru/Dwarves, Elfen, Orclach, Igasho - they're all very human-like in appearance. An argument could be made most - if not all - of the Elder Gods (excluding Primals) in fact were very humanoid, like Eventru, Maylea, Lisaera, Terentia, etc, when they were created. At least, those made 'later' as Dynara's habits became more refined. Then what would their templates look like? Could one not argue they're all pretty similar?

Or maybe not! Maybe I'm just yanking your chain pretty hard. Maybe I just like to make you think about alternate possibilities, and force people to contemplate things. Maybe it's intentionally vague. After all, I am quite fond of prognostication and discourse, and love to see library books. Perhaps this is all a ruse to make some people think and maybe write books and submit them on the topic. Ohhh, wouldn't that be a dastardly plan.

(I feel like I need to add a disclaimer here - I'm not definitively saying one way or another about how Elder Gods appeared prior to the end of the Elder Wars. I'm merely pointing out alternate arguments. Though, I must admit, the notion of Tae actually being a fat, lazy dim-witted human in lieu of the commonly perceived 'bear' form really makes me chuckle!)

I always assumed Edifices were like giant one-use batteries: pump power in until you reach a certain point, then shove it all into a mortal to Ascend them and then the Edifice is used up. By comparison, Nexii are more subtle tools, allowing links to alternate planes, discretionary powers, passive power gain from certain things, the aether networks, etc.

I was trying to think of something to better compare Edifices to, and my brain got stuck on waterbombs: you fill them up with water (power), then throw them at someone (Ascend them), and they're used up. By comparison, a Nexus is ... a hydraulics system? My brain is a little odd.

I don't know that there's any proof of much of this, except the lack of counterexamples, but hey. Theorizing is fun.

Esano:

My brain is a little odd.

Not sure anyone has ever said anything to the contrary.