Unknown2012-09-01 19:31:10
Hi,
There's a Minstrelry / Loralaria report in the works, it's due on the 15th of this month. Here's the Minstrelry side of things, no idea when/if the Loralaria side will put something up, but I'll leave it up to them.
Comments/Feedback appreciated.
Skill: StrangeTrip
Problem: There is a bit of redundancy with a skill that does nothing but get enemies high and nothing further. The state of being high itself does nothing but cause a flavourful bit of spam that's easily gagged and opens up effects from other abilities.
Solution #1: To address this redundancy, combine the effects of StrangeTrip and PurpleHaze, an ability that afflicts should a target already be high. As such, StrangeTrip would then instill the state of being high on a target if they are not already, and if they are, would instead afflict with PurpleHaze's afflictions, streamlining Minstrelry more.
---
Skill: PurpleHaze
Problem: With StrangeTrip altered to combine PurpleHaze's results to its own, PurpleHaze itself becomes a skill that needs its own effects. In the hopes of retaining PurpleHaze's hallucinatory flavour (and maybe adding to the limited utility of Minstrelry), the following ideas are presented for consideration:
Solution #1: Have PurpleHaze create protective reflections for the bard and allied individuals, creating hallucinations an enemy could mistakenly hit rather than their intended target.
Solution #2: Have PurpleHaze generate an illusion on the regular music tic that affects enemied individuals. This illusion is pre-set by the bard, much like an embedded hallucinations mote is designated by a Dreamweaver.
Solution #3: Have PurpleHaze spread confusing clouds across a room's exits, giving unblind (unblind, so that this better benefits Glamourists) enemies a chance of walking through the haze and returning right back to the room they were initially trying to escape.
---
Skill: Cabaret
Problem: When compared to the StarHymn's Low-stanza Processional, Minstrelry's Mid-Stanza Cabaret is far outshined even with its higher assignation. Cabaret itself regenerates mana and ego akin to Perfection and Beauty enchantment levels. Processional, however, not only regenerates health, mana, endurance, AND willpower, but does so at stronger levels than Cabaret itself.
Solution #1: Increase the potency of Cabaret's regeneration considerably or expand the ability's range - enough to warrant its higher assignation as a Mid-stanza song. Added options could include various regens (health, willpower, endurance) or speedier benefits (focus/potion balance, or power regen).
Solution #2: Emphasize Cabaret's description of an 'uptempo tune to raise the spirits' by altering its boon from a standard regeneration to a more flavourful ability that inspires allied listeners to be better somehow. An idea is for the next ability that consumes balance or equilibrium doing so at a lessened cost after hearing Cabaret. This boon would fade until Cabaret is next heard again.
---
Skill: CanCan
Problem: Unlike other force abilities (Dominate, Pooka, etc.) which a caster can use to cause enemy A to attack enemy B, and have enemy A incur the damaging effects of enemy B's defenses (like PhantomArmour, UnholyWater, Aeromancy raise staff, etc.), Cancan causes the caster to experience the negative effects of enemy B instead of enemy A who actually caused the damage. Ie. if my Cancan causes Bob to hit someone with UnholyWater, I incur UnholyWater's effects instead of Bob who did the hit.
Solution #1: Have those who deal damage to another through Cancan incur the negative effects of damaging their target instead of the Minstrel, putting Cancan on par with other force abilities. Ie. in the example above, have Bob incur UnholyWater's effects instead of me.
Solution #2: As per envoy comments, instead of redirecting the negative consequences from the Minstrel to the source of the kick, just outright negate the consequences from affecting either of the two parties.
-----------------------------------------------------------
That's all!
There's a Minstrelry / Loralaria report in the works, it's due on the 15th of this month. Here's the Minstrelry side of things, no idea when/if the Loralaria side will put something up, but I'll leave it up to them.
Comments/Feedback appreciated.
Skill: StrangeTrip
Problem: There is a bit of redundancy with a skill that does nothing but get enemies high and nothing further. The state of being high itself does nothing but cause a flavourful bit of spam that's easily gagged and opens up effects from other abilities.
Solution #1: To address this redundancy, combine the effects of StrangeTrip and PurpleHaze, an ability that afflicts should a target already be high. As such, StrangeTrip would then instill the state of being high on a target if they are not already, and if they are, would instead afflict with PurpleHaze's afflictions, streamlining Minstrelry more.
---
Skill: PurpleHaze
Problem: With StrangeTrip altered to combine PurpleHaze's results to its own, PurpleHaze itself becomes a skill that needs its own effects. In the hopes of retaining PurpleHaze's hallucinatory flavour (and maybe adding to the limited utility of Minstrelry), the following ideas are presented for consideration:
Solution #1: Have PurpleHaze create protective reflections for the bard and allied individuals, creating hallucinations an enemy could mistakenly hit rather than their intended target.
Solution #2: Have PurpleHaze generate an illusion on the regular music tic that affects enemied individuals. This illusion is pre-set by the bard, much like an embedded hallucinations mote is designated by a Dreamweaver.
Solution #3: Have PurpleHaze spread confusing clouds across a room's exits, giving unblind (unblind, so that this better benefits Glamourists) enemies a chance of walking through the haze and returning right back to the room they were initially trying to escape.
---
Skill: Cabaret
Problem: When compared to the StarHymn's Low-stanza Processional, Minstrelry's Mid-Stanza Cabaret is far outshined even with its higher assignation. Cabaret itself regenerates mana and ego akin to Perfection and Beauty enchantment levels. Processional, however, not only regenerates health, mana, endurance, AND willpower, but does so at stronger levels than Cabaret itself.
Solution #1: Increase the potency of Cabaret's regeneration considerably or expand the ability's range - enough to warrant its higher assignation as a Mid-stanza song. Added options could include various regens (health, willpower, endurance) or speedier benefits (focus/potion balance, or power regen).
Solution #2: Emphasize Cabaret's description of an 'uptempo tune to raise the spirits' by altering its boon from a standard regeneration to a more flavourful ability that inspires allied listeners to be better somehow. An idea is for the next ability that consumes balance or equilibrium doing so at a lessened cost after hearing Cabaret. This boon would fade until Cabaret is next heard again.
---
Skill: CanCan
Problem: Unlike other force abilities (Dominate, Pooka, etc.) which a caster can use to cause enemy A to attack enemy B, and have enemy A incur the damaging effects of enemy B's defenses (like PhantomArmour, UnholyWater, Aeromancy raise staff, etc.), Cancan causes the caster to experience the negative effects of enemy B instead of enemy A who actually caused the damage. Ie. if my Cancan causes Bob to hit someone with UnholyWater, I incur UnholyWater's effects instead of Bob who did the hit.
Solution #1: Have those who deal damage to another through Cancan incur the negative effects of damaging their target instead of the Minstrel, putting Cancan on par with other force abilities. Ie. in the example above, have Bob incur UnholyWater's effects instead of me.
Solution #2: As per envoy comments, instead of redirecting the negative consequences from the Minstrel to the source of the kick, just outright negate the consequences from affecting either of the two parties.
-----------------------------------------------------------
That's all!
Lothringen2012-09-01 20:35:04
StrangeTrip, sure.
PurpleHaze, solution 3 assuming it either doesn't proc on tumble or has a low chance like Knighthood Engage.
Cabaret, not convinced solution 1 (in the case of health regen, etc.) is necessary, considering Minstrels have the potential to be the tankiest bards with brewmeister dwarf and alcohol benefits.
CanCan, either.
My 2 cents.
PurpleHaze, solution 3 assuming it either doesn't proc on tumble or has a low chance like Knighthood Engage.
Cabaret, not convinced solution 1 (in the case of health regen, etc.) is necessary, considering Minstrels have the potential to be the tankiest bards with brewmeister dwarf and alcohol benefits.
CanCan, either.
My 2 cents.
Llandros2012-09-01 20:39:06
I don't like the strange trip/purple haze thing.
To keep the theme and make it worth while, why not go for adding in some kind of malus to being high. Maybe chance to give dizzyness or something?
There is really no good reason to be high and no way for other guilds to militarize it so I think there won't be much danger of messing with it mucking up things.
To keep the theme and make it worth while, why not go for adding in some kind of malus to being high. Maybe chance to give dizzyness or something?
There is really no good reason to be high and no way for other guilds to militarize it so I think there won't be much danger of messing with it mucking up things.
Xiel2012-09-02 09:56:31
Llandros:
I don't like the strange trip/purple haze thing.
To keep the theme and make it worth while, why not go for adding in some kind of malus to being high. Maybe chance to give dizzyness or something?
As currently is and also within the proposal, someone already high would be generating mental afflictions with Minstrelry, so I might be misunderstanding your dizziness comment.
Lothringen:
Cabaret, not convinced solution 1 (in the case of health regen, etc.) is necessary, considering Minstrels have the potential to be the tankiest bards with brewmeister dwarf and alcohol benefits.
Other solutions to Cabaret are certainly welcome besides regeneration. As is, it's outshined by a Low-stanza song in more ways than one.
Ushaara2012-09-02 15:54:38
Can-Can, sure.
Cabaret not giving as much regen seems to me to be likely due to having DrinkingSong to boost your h/m/e. Fine with increasing it on mana/ego, but like Lothringen, I don't think it should be extended to health, given how tanky Minstrels can get.
The solution 3 of PurpleHaze is the least objectionable for me, but why not just tag the 'chance to fail leaving room' effect into StrangeTrip to bring it up to par, and leave PurpleHaze as is? Something like,
'Following an idle fancy, you make to leave to the southwest. Several bizarre sights and terrifying sounds later, you manage to focus long enough on a scene that is reassuring in its familiarity, and you end your strange trip.'
Re Loralaria: I'm assuming Eritheyl & Talan have some ideas, but from my own viewpoint, the skills that should be looked at would be Convergence and ClearCapriccio (already a report in), and maybe CrimsonCourante. There's also no 'cloudy terrain' song which would be a welcome addition.
Finally, again from a non-bard, the timing of FleckedFortissimo (sprawl song) seems a bit off to me. It currently hits with BlueBerceuse (sleep song) and MidnightMinuet (off-bal song), and seems pretty much redundant where it is with Loralaria's sleep already sprawling pretty regularly.
Cabaret not giving as much regen seems to me to be likely due to having DrinkingSong to boost your h/m/e. Fine with increasing it on mana/ego, but like Lothringen, I don't think it should be extended to health, given how tanky Minstrels can get.
The solution 3 of PurpleHaze is the least objectionable for me, but why not just tag the 'chance to fail leaving room' effect into StrangeTrip to bring it up to par, and leave PurpleHaze as is? Something like,
'Following an idle fancy, you make to leave to the southwest. Several bizarre sights and terrifying sounds later, you manage to focus long enough on a scene that is reassuring in its familiarity, and you end your strange trip.'
Re Loralaria: I'm assuming Eritheyl & Talan have some ideas, but from my own viewpoint, the skills that should be looked at would be Convergence and ClearCapriccio (already a report in), and maybe CrimsonCourante. There's also no 'cloudy terrain' song which would be a welcome addition.
Finally, again from a non-bard, the timing of FleckedFortissimo (sprawl song) seems a bit off to me. It currently hits with BlueBerceuse (sleep song) and MidnightMinuet (off-bal song), and seems pretty much redundant where it is with Loralaria's sleep already sprawling pretty regularly.
Eritheyl2012-09-02 21:12:21
Alright, here we go. Some points I'd like to address with LoralAria include...
BlueBerceuse
Sleep is a terrible mechanic, ask any Dreamweaver. While I can eventually get a target to max tiredness with Glamours
Mesmerize, it takes time. Though it's possible to stick someone with sleep and aeon with a bit of luck, it really isn't as
effective as one might hope. I (and many of the Symphonium, undoubtedly) would rather divorce the skillset from sleep
mechanics altogether. I would much rather have a focus on timewarp accrual, so RedRubato has a purpose aside from
adding spam.
AureolinAubade
Our very first report focused on changing this from an active ability to a passive song effect, which was approved. However,
a 15% chance at lusting your target is not as great as it sounds. I've had a handful of spars in which it doesn't proc at all,
which is frustrating as a Glamourist lacking access to lust-on-demand. This is more just a complaint, but see SkySforzando.
FleckedFortissimo
See Ushaara's point above. Could use a change in tic placement.
SkySforzando
Aeon coupled with stun, chance at double aeon if gemmed. This skill is pretty decent, but requires your target to be lusted.
I agree that it can be effective if used properly, and needs a restriction of some sort, but requiring lust is something I just
find silly as the staple of our spec combat tactics. This means that we need to keep tabs on lust, sleep opportunities and
deafness tracking. Why anyone would want to bother with all of this rather than just going for aurics and damage kills is
beyond me. It's just messy.
ClearCapriccio
I would personally never bother with this skill, though there is a report currently in the works that pertains to it. I just see it
as one of those Nice Things that just exists for the sake. Not everything in a skillset needs to be amazing/utilized, but it's
there.
Convergence
Requires sleep, tosses someone to a random room in your location while hitting with stun and aeon.
...if anyone COULD ever use this, why would they?
Note that I am, as anyone could tell you, a horrendous theorycrafter and combatant. While I don't want LoralAria to be
overflowing with win buttons, I just think that the skillset has a lot of things thrown in that make it clunky and without a main
focus. It needs a second or third look.
Also no, I don't have solutions for these issues worked out yet. I'm not good with this sort of thing, but I shine in regards
to idle complaints.
BlueBerceuse
Sleep is a terrible mechanic, ask any Dreamweaver. While I can eventually get a target to max tiredness with Glamours
Mesmerize, it takes time. Though it's possible to stick someone with sleep and aeon with a bit of luck, it really isn't as
effective as one might hope. I (and many of the Symphonium, undoubtedly) would rather divorce the skillset from sleep
mechanics altogether. I would much rather have a focus on timewarp accrual, so RedRubato has a purpose aside from
adding spam.
AureolinAubade
Our very first report focused on changing this from an active ability to a passive song effect, which was approved. However,
a 15% chance at lusting your target is not as great as it sounds. I've had a handful of spars in which it doesn't proc at all,
which is frustrating as a Glamourist lacking access to lust-on-demand. This is more just a complaint, but see SkySforzando.
FleckedFortissimo
See Ushaara's point above. Could use a change in tic placement.
SkySforzando
Aeon coupled with stun, chance at double aeon if gemmed. This skill is pretty decent, but requires your target to be lusted.
I agree that it can be effective if used properly, and needs a restriction of some sort, but requiring lust is something I just
find silly as the staple of our spec combat tactics. This means that we need to keep tabs on lust, sleep opportunities and
deafness tracking. Why anyone would want to bother with all of this rather than just going for aurics and damage kills is
beyond me. It's just messy.
ClearCapriccio
I would personally never bother with this skill, though there is a report currently in the works that pertains to it. I just see it
as one of those Nice Things that just exists for the sake. Not everything in a skillset needs to be amazing/utilized, but it's
there.
Convergence
Requires sleep, tosses someone to a random room in your location while hitting with stun and aeon.
...if anyone COULD ever use this, why would they?
Note that I am, as anyone could tell you, a horrendous theorycrafter and combatant. While I don't want LoralAria to be
overflowing with win buttons, I just think that the skillset has a lot of things thrown in that make it clunky and without a main
focus. It needs a second or third look.
Also no, I don't have solutions for these issues worked out yet. I'm not good with this sort of thing, but I shine in regards
to idle complaints.
Unknown2012-09-02 21:45:48
Cabaret could also passively drain the mana / ego of enemies, possibly more if they're high, to make it more worthy of being mid stanza. Plus if you add the bonus if you're high, it ties in to the weed thing a bit more strongly.
Llandros2012-09-04 20:21:20
Xiel:
As currently is and also within the proposal, someone already high would be generating mental afflictions with Minstrelry, so I might be misunderstanding your dizziness comment.
They problem states that being high doesn't do anything except give a gagable spam. My suggestion was to give being high some kind of penalty that doesn't make it entirely ignorable. Low stanza so I would suggest something minor though.
Passive pathtwist is kinda over the top. Passive reflections for you and your allies was suggested for a high stanza terrain based effect.....
Tying strong effects to virtually incurable attrition is a bit much.
Also, if you look at the structure for the available songs, having a low stanza regen song available to the mid stanzas is pretty advantageous as is. There are lots of good stuff in low with fewer option in mid. This would allow you to have a regen song up in your pk set up which is pretty uncommon. A minor boost would be ok, but nothing major.
Xenthos2012-09-04 23:53:19
Convergence is a great skill... for breaking into places.
Xiel2012-09-05 00:15:22
Wot.
Thus, the suggestion to combine the two songs which deal with being high - afflicting with it if not, and if already high, afflicting with the mental afflictions of PurpleHaze. This streamlines Minstrelry more to incorporate other effects elsewhere.
Oh, and it's not unheard of for a Low-stanza song to afflict.
If anything, I'd compare it to RainbowClouds than Pathtwist. Pathtwist has far more of an effect than what is proposed in the third solution.
'Attrition' implies something unpleasant happens when left uncured. Nothing happens with being high by itself, unlike hunger and tiredness which lead to unconsciousness. Also, the third solution specifically notes being unblind for the ability to work - so not so much being 'incurable' by any stretch of the imagination.
Except, comparatively, the effects of this song are weaker than other songs are at the Low stanza, let alone the Mid-level. This leads to the proposal of bumping Cabaret up a bit.
Though I do see the concerns people have about Minstrelry becoming even beefier (what with DrinkingSong and all), and quite like the idea of converting Cabaret to be a mana/ego drain instead of a mana/ego regen. Would be a neat third solution that would help with auric kills.
Llandros:
They problem states that being high doesn't do anything except give a gagable spam. My suggestion was to give being high some kind of penalty that doesn't make it entirely ignorable. Low stanza so I would suggest something minor though.
Thus, the suggestion to combine the two songs which deal with being high - afflicting with it if not, and if already high, afflicting with the mental afflictions of PurpleHaze. This streamlines Minstrelry more to incorporate other effects elsewhere.
Oh, and it's not unheard of for a Low-stanza song to afflict.
Llandros:
Passive pathtwist is kinda over the top.
If anything, I'd compare it to RainbowClouds than Pathtwist. Pathtwist has far more of an effect than what is proposed in the third solution.
Llandros:
Tying strong effects to virtually incurable attrition is a bit much.
'Attrition' implies something unpleasant happens when left uncured. Nothing happens with being high by itself, unlike hunger and tiredness which lead to unconsciousness. Also, the third solution specifically notes being unblind for the ability to work - so not so much being 'incurable' by any stretch of the imagination.
Llandros:
Also, if you look at the structure for the available songs, having a low stanza regen song available to the mid stanzas is pretty advantageous as is.
Except, comparatively, the effects of this song are weaker than other songs are at the Low stanza, let alone the Mid-level. This leads to the proposal of bumping Cabaret up a bit.
Though I do see the concerns people have about Minstrelry becoming even beefier (what with DrinkingSong and all), and quite like the idea of converting Cabaret to be a mana/ego drain instead of a mana/ego regen. Would be a neat third solution that would help with auric kills.
Llandros2012-09-05 15:26:04
Xenthos:
Convergence is a great skill... for breaking into places.
I'm not sure I would agree with this. If someone is already downed with sleep, I'm not sure of a situation where i would want to fling them away from me and end my song.
I think convergence is the weakest link in the Loraria chain. It basically just takes up a space in their high stana range.
Llandros2012-09-05 15:42:11
Xiel:
stuff
No, just no.
Having a power do nothing but set up another power is not ideal and could use improvement. I'm down with that.
The solution to that is not to omgwtfbbq buff two abilities. It's just not. You are not going to convince me othwerwise.
Minstrelry already has a mana/ego drain power, of sorts. So not sure doubling down on that is the best way to go.
Also, for bards, passive mana and ego drain in any amount is rather powerful as it greatly increases your ability to track aurics on people when trying to set up a discordant chord. Just something to take into consideration.
Xenthos2012-09-05 21:23:43
Llandros:
I'm not sure I would agree with this. If someone is already downed with sleep, I'm not sure of a situation where i would want to fling them away from me and end my song.
I think convergence is the weakest link in the Loraria chain. It basically just takes up a space in their high stana range.
..?
I'm not sure you actually read / understood my post.
You use it on an ally to get them into a protected area that you cannot normally walk into. Like the hamster / reality. Since you can't even buy the hamster any more, and the hamster is limited to one use per month... it's actually really good in that respect.
Enyalida2012-09-05 23:20:31
Xiel:
Pathtwist has far more of an effect than what is proposed in the third solution.
I'd argue the opposite, actually.
However, I don't like the language in that solution that indicates that the song generates a haze in a room that persists after the bard leaves: "Creating it".
Xiel2012-09-06 00:34:22
Wording could always be altered, though that does spur the memory that it wouldn't be the first time a bard would summon something to a location and leave it behind through their music.
Enyalida2012-09-06 00:49:11
However, the proposed purple haze effect looks to be more powerful than rubble (that bards summon and leave), and would presumably work on a passive basis instead requiring an eq to cast, like the tower tarot.
Malarious2012-09-06 01:33:18
StrangeTrip/PurpleHaze: Solutions 1 is a hard NO. Solution 2 is equally a no, though I am not heartily opposed so much. Option 3 is acceptable if it has several limits on it, doesnt hit cubix, wont work on somersault/tumble, etc. Assuming these are staying song effects, sol 3 means you have to be hearing for it to effect you as well. Thats the only reason I think its better off.
Cabaret: Drain mana/ego is ok, I agree it gives help with aurics, if the drains arent too high though I think a skill to basically check for aurics is ok.
CanCan: Sounds ok to me, though I think the current reason it hits you is the code that tracks "responsibility". Aka the code to make sure ordering someone to attack a denizen makes it mad at you.
Loralaria:
I swear to God you are guys were intended to be Moondancers. Sleep + Aeon.
BlueBerceuse
Who says you are intended to cause attrition? Can't you cause sleep twice in a hit with gem on it? You cannot remove metawake at present to my knowledge, but otherwise you have the makings of an instant sleeplock. Followable with aeon no? Like I said Moondancers! Huge and glaring no to the idea of stacking timewarp, you have other guilds that can kill off that. For you to be able to use it would mean it would be a cake walk with anyone else present to insta people readily. As is institute can pull quite a number with shatterplex, image if they had someone else doing more.
AureolinAubade
If you want to be able to lust on demand, allow it, if you want to be controversial make it a special syntax usable without refrain. I dont have a good example so lets use a bad one "AUBADE" They see: "Eritheyl gazes at you deeply, almost peering into your very soul. As she looks away you feel yourself more enamoured than before." My thought was to allow you to be like 1p or 2p and make them unable to reject for X seconds, but after some thought I think that might play out for people very poorly as it makes them unable to then stop what the bard does (and makes for scary empress setups).
FleckedFortissimo
Sure
SkySforzando
You use sleep when you are ready to, you do not need to watch for any particular oppurtunities. That said I think double aeon with stun is pretty nasty, if you have tarot thats guaranteed aeon with a stun, follow up with sleeplock since you recover before they do most likely, etc.
ClearCapriccio
Are you asking why a song that cures all allies and gives them some powerful healing while also speeding up warrior weapons is good, or why you expect to use a 10p song ender in a fight? Looks to me like a tide turner in intent, or a nice buff before entering a fight. If you are in support roles or not working on your aeon/sleep stuff then the loss of your song is unimportant.
Convergence
Song to remove enemies is good, song to remove enemies with super high costs and a req or two is bad. Tweak it if you want but really I am surprised CONVERGING means to move apart. Just saying.
Cabaret: Drain mana/ego is ok, I agree it gives help with aurics, if the drains arent too high though I think a skill to basically check for aurics is ok.
CanCan: Sounds ok to me, though I think the current reason it hits you is the code that tracks "responsibility". Aka the code to make sure ordering someone to attack a denizen makes it mad at you.
Loralaria:
I swear to God you are guys were intended to be Moondancers. Sleep + Aeon.
BlueBerceuse
Who says you are intended to cause attrition? Can't you cause sleep twice in a hit with gem on it? You cannot remove metawake at present to my knowledge, but otherwise you have the makings of an instant sleeplock. Followable with aeon no? Like I said Moondancers! Huge and glaring no to the idea of stacking timewarp, you have other guilds that can kill off that. For you to be able to use it would mean it would be a cake walk with anyone else present to insta people readily. As is institute can pull quite a number with shatterplex, image if they had someone else doing more.
AureolinAubade
If you want to be able to lust on demand, allow it, if you want to be controversial make it a special syntax usable without refrain. I dont have a good example so lets use a bad one "AUBADE
FleckedFortissimo
Sure
SkySforzando
You use sleep when you are ready to, you do not need to watch for any particular oppurtunities. That said I think double aeon with stun is pretty nasty, if you have tarot thats guaranteed aeon with a stun, follow up with sleeplock since you recover before they do most likely, etc.
ClearCapriccio
Are you asking why a song that cures all allies and gives them some powerful healing while also speeding up warrior weapons is good, or why you expect to use a 10p song ender in a fight? Looks to me like a tide turner in intent, or a nice buff before entering a fight. If you are in support roles or not working on your aeon/sleep stuff then the loss of your song is unimportant.
Convergence
Song to remove enemies is good, song to remove enemies with super high costs and a req or two is bad. Tweak it if you want but really I am surprised CONVERGING means to move apart. Just saying.
Eritheyl2012-09-06 04:25:59
I swear to God you are guys were intended to be Moondancers. Sleep + Aeon.
- Except Moondancers have access to pooka, which is what makes them able to sleeplock in the first place, no? You could get lucky and be fighting someone without the sense to have metawake up, but that's really a crappy thing to base your tactics around.
BlueBerceuse
Who says you are intended to cause attrition? Can't you cause sleep twice in a hit with gem on it? You cannot remove metawake at present to my knowledge, but otherwise you have the makings of an instant sleeplock. Followable with aeon no? Like I said Moondancers! Huge and glaring no to the idea of stacking timewarp, you have other guilds that can kill off that. For you to be able to use it would mean it would be a cake walk with anyone else present to insta people readily. As is institute can pull quite a number with shatterplex, image if they had someone else doing more.
- I concede to all points raised in regards to timewarp, but still wish something else could be brought in.
AureolinAubade
If you want to be able to lust on demand, allow it, if you want to be controversial make it a special syntax usable without refrain. I dont have a good example so lets use a bad one "AUBADE" They see: "Eritheyl gazes at you deeply, almost peering into your very soul. As she looks away you feel yourself more enamoured than before." My thought was to allow you to be like 1p or 2p and make them unable to reject for X seconds, but after some thought I think that might play out for people very poorly as it makes them unable to then stop what the bard does (and makes for scary empress setups).
- I'm sort of liking this idea, but doubt it will get very far. Someone else once suggested that: if the target is already lusted when the effect procs again, it lengthens the eq loss on the next reject. Not something I'm going 'wowomg' over, but I may tinker with it a bit.
...also I am male.
FleckedFortissimo
Sure
- Yay!
SkySforzando
You use sleep when you are ready to, you do not need to watch for any particular oppurtunities. That said I think double aeon with stun is pretty nasty, if you have tarot thats guaranteed aeon with a stun, follow up with sleeplock since you recover before they do most likely, etc.
- The problem is that without being able to strip kafe, 9 times out of 10 they're already awake and curing aeon before you can follow up with anything useful.
ClearCapriccio
Are you asking why a song that cures all allies and gives them some powerful healing while also speeding up warrior weapons is good, or why you expect to use a 10p song ender in a fight? Looks to me like a tide turner in intent, or a nice buff before entering a fight. If you are in support roles or not working on your aeon/sleep stuff then the loss of your song is unimportant.
- Agreed, but I'm still hoping for a favourable response to Talan's report.
Convergence
Song to remove enemies is good, song to remove enemies with super high costs and a req or two is bad. Tweak it if you want but really I am surprised CONVERGING means to move apart. Just saying.
- You have no idea how much that name bit gets to me.
- Except Moondancers have access to pooka, which is what makes them able to sleeplock in the first place, no? You could get lucky and be fighting someone without the sense to have metawake up, but that's really a crappy thing to base your tactics around.
BlueBerceuse
Who says you are intended to cause attrition? Can't you cause sleep twice in a hit with gem on it? You cannot remove metawake at present to my knowledge, but otherwise you have the makings of an instant sleeplock. Followable with aeon no? Like I said Moondancers! Huge and glaring no to the idea of stacking timewarp, you have other guilds that can kill off that. For you to be able to use it would mean it would be a cake walk with anyone else present to insta people readily. As is institute can pull quite a number with shatterplex, image if they had someone else doing more.
- I concede to all points raised in regards to timewarp, but still wish something else could be brought in.
AureolinAubade
If you want to be able to lust on demand, allow it, if you want to be controversial make it a special syntax usable without refrain. I dont have a good example so lets use a bad one "AUBADE
- I'm sort of liking this idea, but doubt it will get very far. Someone else once suggested that: if the target is already lusted when the effect procs again, it lengthens the eq loss on the next reject. Not something I'm going 'wowomg' over, but I may tinker with it a bit.
...also I am male.
FleckedFortissimo
Sure
- Yay!
SkySforzando
You use sleep when you are ready to, you do not need to watch for any particular oppurtunities. That said I think double aeon with stun is pretty nasty, if you have tarot thats guaranteed aeon with a stun, follow up with sleeplock since you recover before they do most likely, etc.
- The problem is that without being able to strip kafe, 9 times out of 10 they're already awake and curing aeon before you can follow up with anything useful.
ClearCapriccio
Are you asking why a song that cures all allies and gives them some powerful healing while also speeding up warrior weapons is good, or why you expect to use a 10p song ender in a fight? Looks to me like a tide turner in intent, or a nice buff before entering a fight. If you are in support roles or not working on your aeon/sleep stuff then the loss of your song is unimportant.
- Agreed, but I'm still hoping for a favourable response to Talan's report.
Convergence
Song to remove enemies is good, song to remove enemies with super high costs and a req or two is bad. Tweak it if you want but really I am surprised CONVERGING means to move apart. Just saying.
- You have no idea how much that name bit gets to me.
Xiel2012-09-06 04:37:35
Re: PurpleHaze clouds.
It largely depends on the road taken by the admin. If they choose to make it an active summon skill instead of a song effect (Ancestral Watch), then it'd be largely dependent on hitting bard enemies, with probably better/worse effects on those who are either unblind or high. Undeaf would not be a requirement to be affect someone.
If it stays a song effect, then the limitation of both hearing and seeing would be a pain, so would have only one or the other serving as the boundary to its effects.
Either way, since the idea largely reflects RainbowClouds, look to that for comparisons on what it would or would not affect in terms of movement out of the room.
It largely depends on the road taken by the admin. If they choose to make it an active summon skill instead of a song effect (Ancestral Watch), then it'd be largely dependent on hitting bard enemies, with probably better/worse effects on those who are either unblind or high. Undeaf would not be a requirement to be affect someone.
If it stays a song effect, then the limitation of both hearing and seeing would be a pain, so would have only one or the other serving as the boundary to its effects.
Either way, since the idea largely reflects RainbowClouds, look to that for comparisons on what it would or would not affect in terms of movement out of the room.
Enyalida2012-09-06 04:51:50
I would make it a 'summon' ability, but it is only ever in the room of the caster. Only hits those who are high, but they don't need to be hearing (hearing makes the %chance go up, though). Low-ish chance of working.
In other words, if they were once undeafened (like, via a blankchord), it's likely they will be vulnerable to this for quite some time because of how (very) long being high lasts, as your song will get them high passively.
In other words, if they were once undeafened (like, via a blankchord), it's likely they will be vulnerable to this for quite some time because of how (very) long being high lasts, as your song will get them high passively.
