Following on from some of the discussion in this thread here: http://forums.luster...opic=20785&st=0

One of the points that's coming up repeatedly is that in guilds with a low member count, it's very hard for newer players to a) advance beyond GR1 and 2) give a crap about their guild if there's no one in it. Whilst we all want different things out of Lusternia, the vast majority of things people want from the game involve interaction with other players. (It must be, otherwise we'd all be playing first person RPGs).

It's certainly true that there are things the admin can do to help out with this - and they do, with their efforts to recruit new players and the work of patrons to give guilds shiny things of loveliness (like guild quests and the suchlike). However they only have plates so big to hold all the things we like to shove onto them, and I'm certain that there are things that we as players can do to help.

I figured therefore that it was worth starting a thread about the sorts of things that we as players can help to counter and/or develop. People should chime in with things their guilds do, or ideas they have, or other problems that we could work on. Please don't use this thread for talking about changing guilds entirely. That's what the other thread is for.

As a sort of initiator, here are a couple of problems that I know of within guilds at present that we might be able to help mitigate. I'm sure there are loads more :):

- Insufficient (under)secretaries around to advance past GR1.
- New members not having access to guild lore/RP
- Inavailability of guild-specific advice (that not available from other members of your city/commune)

I'm not sure if this counts as changing guilds entirely, and if ti does, let me know and I'll post this in the other thread instead, but what if guild officers (undersecs, secs, protectors, security, etc.) could favor no matter what guild rank they are? Like, a guild undersecretary can't give guildfavors unless he or she is GR5. I'm not sure, but I think it's the same with the Secretary and the other positions you don't get auto GR maxed on. Now, you could say, just favor people till they get to GR5 if you put them in positions, and that's still a problem if there's only a few people who can favor in a low pop guild.

Also, and I realize this might just be me, but I always hate getting favored just because I need to be a certain rank to fit a position. I want to earn those favors dang it! :lol: But, that's a personal issue so you can forget that point altogether, I guess. :lol:

But anyway, if GAs, GMs and GCs pick their assistants with the mind that they're spread out a bit over a clock, and the position came with the ability to favor, then it'd be easier to make sure folks get favored in a timely manner.

I think moving away from people with specific positions being responsible for helping out and that it be expected of everyone would be a good idea.

Whenever we create a role we have to have a person to fill it. If there is no one to do the job then it doesn't get done and eveyone else is like, well it's not my job.

My suggestion is this. The Theatre!

I created an intro play for the Cacophony. I might do another one for Caco lore and history. Make them free and list them in the CGHELP files and how to access them.

They are more entertaining than dusty old books and can give all the instruction and lore in a consitent and correct way to anyone who is interested.

I don't agree with the idea of getting rid of positions. IMO, if there's only two or three positions available in a guild (or city/commune) then what happens is that a tiny hand-full of people get to be in power and no one else gets to have a chance because either the folks already there just stay there, or their friends take over the position because they're well known and the previous person liked them. New people have less chance to prove they can do things and make names for themselves.

That said, I completely agree about using the theater. That would help with the lore issue a great deal. Whenever I mention it in game, people always seem a little surprised by the idea of doing anything besides plays or skits in the theater. But, recording stories, lectures, lessons, all that is possible and more people should do it. Heck, with all the abilities the theater has, you could probably recreate an actual fight, where you pause in the action to explain why a technique works against this attack or defense, using actual combat lines. (Might have to give a warning to ease up on the reflexes or something at the start though :lol: ).

Then, you could just include in the guild message thingie you see when you log in, that there's guild lessons and so on available at the theater.

Now, I guess, if folks are worried about secretive guild secrets and all, why not add a feature to the theater that you can determine when you record your production, that only certain groups can see it. Like you can make it public, guild only, order only, city only.. They'd all count as far as theater activity goes, but only public things could go to the world stage.

Reading back over my posts, all my suggestions involve coded changes (though using the theater is a player one, it wasn't even mine :lol: ) I fail at following directions. :losewings:

I doubt I would want to restrict mine since I would also use them as recruitment tools. It might be possible for guilds to buy a stage to put inside their guild hall if they wanted to though.

The theatre system is really cool though, you can add in color and explosions and special effects and all kinds of crazy stuff. It does take a bit of learning to get the hang of but if you ask around I'm sure there are people out there willing to help out.

Can we get tutors that guild members can talk to and ask for advancement? The guild leadership would have some way of giving 'permission' recognizable by the tutors before they'd be advanced.

thisismydisplayname:

Can we get tutors that guild members can talk to and ask for advancement? The guild leadership would have some way of giving 'permission' recognizable by the tutors before they'd be advanced.

It wouldn't be any different than messaging a guild leader for the same thing, no? Unless you want the tutors to be able to check against preset tasks and requirements, which is way too complex and variable.

Mhmm. And now that I think of it, it doesn't really answer the problem. I suppose the lore for some guilds could be expanded and/our expounded. :)

I really, really like the idea of having plays that can have restricted viewership (guild, order, etc.) though that is potentially simple enough to get around with alts. So...dunno if it really matters. I imagine that super advanced combat strategies probably wouldn't be covered anyways, so is there really a point to trying to keep other eyes off the performance?

Giving UnderSecs/Secs/other positions the ability to guildfavor without necessitating that they're a certain rank isn't a bad idea. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing there only being three levels of favors. Elected guild positions, senior guild positions (security, secretary), and junior guild positions (protector, under-sec). My understanding of the current system is that guild favors are weighted by the guild rank of the person that favors. Getting rid of that could also necessitate a change in the current guild favor points totals for ranks, which may or may not be a good thing.

I rambled, apologies. tl;dr: plays idea is great, plan to steal. GF based on guild position rather than guild rank is good.

If a sec/undersec/security/protector doesn't have the rank and also feels like they can't recommend that person get favored to somebody that does have the rank, something is seriously wrong.

Don't think I've ever not favored somebody when it was recommended to me.

Trying to engage one-on-one seems to work, but it can be kind of difficult some times.

One thing I've been trying to do with the latest set of Hartstone tasks is make them as open as possible in terms of what you can do. It's less... write a biography of the life of Glinshari and more... learn about Glinshari and show us what you've learned. So like... you can write a biography, perform a ritual honouring him, just sit down to discuss it, whatever you like as long as it shows that you've understood. Things like ritual combat, designing items/manses, even interpretive dance could be applicable. I guess it's more like a heap of subjects that you can learn about rather than a listing of tasks.

Don't know if it will work, but hopefully it will be cool. It also has the benefit of allowing perhaps a bit more... proactivity in rewarding people, ideally a guild leader could step up and say "Hey, this book you wrote really shows a good understanding of x so we think you've passed that"

I don't think novices would appreciate "I'm going to be a Druid!" Being turned into "...after I finish school."

We definitely won't remove the automated progression to guild rank 1, either.

I'll comment a bit more after I get back to my computer.

When I get home tonight I'll post the play I made for caco with all the effects and stage commands. Hopefully it will make it a little easier for people if they have some kind of template they can work from and ideas they can use.

I'm not going to lie, it does take a little time to go through all the help files to make sense of the system. But that's only because of all the cool things you can do with them.

The only thing i would caution though is that the character creation process is pretty scripted so people might want to be on their own for a bit before they sit through something like that again.

Eventru:

I don't think novices would appreciate "I'm going to be a Druid!" Being turned into "...after I finish school."

That's how it is now. You don't learn (druid/wiccan/guardian/anything) specific skills or get access to any guild communication until after you finish the collegium.

EDIT: In other words you aren't a druid until you learn druidry. Until then, you're just a Nature-user. You aren't a spiritsinger until you're out of novicehood, can talk to spiritsingers as a guild, and can learn the skills of that guild, Wildarrane.

Enyalida:



That's how it is now. You don't learn (druid/wiccan/guardian/anything) specific skills or get access to any guild communication until after you finish the collegium.

EDIT: In other words you aren't a druid until you learn druidry. Until then, you're just a Nature-user. You aren't a spiritsinger until you're out of novicehood, can talk to spiritsingers as a guild, and can learn the skills of that guild, Wildarrane.

Well, that's an exercise in Xenthosian pedant ism. You know what I mean!

Xenthosian Pedantism is the best part of the forums.

Ytran:

Xenthosian Pedantism is the best part of the forums.

But is that because it's the best part, or because it's 90% of the forums and therefore wins by dint of there not being much/any competition...

I just have a special place in the cockles of my metaphorical heart for ceaseless pedantry and nit-picking.

Tacita:


But is that because it's the best part, or because it's 90% of the forums and therefore wins by dint of there not being much/any competition...

The winner of the argument: The guy willing to fight over it the longest! Not a great way to make friends though.