Xenthos2012-10-13 13:36:36
This is a repost of something I made months back, that I would like some discussion on with the Administrative team.
Generic Caster Runes:
Great Rune of Shielding: 350 credits.
Great Rune of Esoteric Authority: 1600 credits, affects all magic-sourced attacks.
Warrior Runes:
Vernal Champion x2: 1200 credits.
Vernal Knight x2: 1200 credits.
*NOTE: I am counting the Great Rune of Gripping as being essentially a 'frill' along with the Great Runes of Bleeding; sure they will add something, but they're not really 'important' as things go. If you want to count them, add on 250 for Warriors and 150 for caster-classes.
Initial Outlay
Casters:
1950
Warriors:
2400
If the caster wants to switch to another archetype, they can do so for no additional credit cost; simply use the shield-runed item as their shield (instead of an actual shield) and the magic damage rune continues to work its magic.
For warriors, however, each additional weapon set is an additional 2400 credits... or a 1500 credit pliers purchase. We'll pretend that the warrior is somewhat smart and uses pliers instead of 2400 credits to make a weapon set for each warrior archetype they skillflex.
Outlay
Casters: 1950
Warriors: 3900
Then, for the "PvP damage runes" as you put them (and you need to buy 2 to have any noticeable effect at all):
Magic Damage (500)
Fire Damage (500)
Cold Damage (500)
Poison Damage (500)
Lightning Damage (500)
Let's say the warrior only picks one of these, because he's not made of money (though, now that he has pliers, he easily could do more)
That jumps the warrior credit cost up to 4400 credits just to be able to have the same sort of flexibility available to casting classes for less than half that price.
Honestly, the absolute best thing that I can see from a player standpoint would be to rework it as follows:
1) Create a new 25-credit "attunement" rune for warrior weapons. One can be attached to each 1h weapon, or a 2h weapon requires 2 for full effect.
2) Remove all warrior weapon runes from all warrior weapons, and replace them with one 25-credit attunement rune (refund as happened previously when the weapon runes were tweaked).
3) Make warrior weapon runes not attach to weapons any more, but instead to Standards.
4) You use the attunement rune to attune a weapon to your standard; a weapon can only be attuned to 1 standard, but many weapons can be attuned to the same standard.
5) When attuned, the weapon receives the benefit of the runes affixed to the standard; for a 2h weapon, if there is only one rune it receives only half-benefit.
At this point, you can actually raise the price of (some of) the warrior runes; you could even double the cost of the stat and wounding runes if you really wanted to (since warriors would only need to buy 1 now, instead of 2), but it'd probably be better to just make the highest level 1000 credits or so (bringing the credit cost to around 2050 credits, +50 credits for each additional weapon set).
Leave the elemental runes at the same price as they are, single-only, only one can be attached to a standard at a time.
Reduce the price of pliers to around 500cr, since without Warriors using them to plop runes around on a regular basis between weapon sets, their value plummets to a point where they might be something nice to have for other classes (move a shield rune around, move jewellery runes around, and so on).
I can dream; even with this change, being a warrior would be more expensive (comparing elementals & bleeding runes to the other class-specific artifacts such as music runes), but no longer more than twice-as.
Generic Caster Runes:
Great Rune of Shielding: 350 credits.
Great Rune of Esoteric Authority: 1600 credits, affects all magic-sourced attacks.
Warrior Runes:
Vernal Champion x2: 1200 credits.
Vernal Knight x2: 1200 credits.
*NOTE: I am counting the Great Rune of Gripping as being essentially a 'frill' along with the Great Runes of Bleeding; sure they will add something, but they're not really 'important' as things go. If you want to count them, add on 250 for Warriors and 150 for caster-classes.
Initial Outlay
Casters:
1950
Warriors:
2400
If the caster wants to switch to another archetype, they can do so for no additional credit cost; simply use the shield-runed item as their shield (instead of an actual shield) and the magic damage rune continues to work its magic.
For warriors, however, each additional weapon set is an additional 2400 credits... or a 1500 credit pliers purchase. We'll pretend that the warrior is somewhat smart and uses pliers instead of 2400 credits to make a weapon set for each warrior archetype they skillflex.
Outlay
Casters: 1950
Warriors: 3900
Then, for the "PvP damage runes" as you put them (and you need to buy 2 to have any noticeable effect at all):
Magic Damage (500)
Fire Damage (500)
Cold Damage (500)
Poison Damage (500)
Lightning Damage (500)
Let's say the warrior only picks one of these, because he's not made of money (though, now that he has pliers, he easily could do more)
That jumps the warrior credit cost up to 4400 credits just to be able to have the same sort of flexibility available to casting classes for less than half that price.
Honestly, the absolute best thing that I can see from a player standpoint would be to rework it as follows:
1) Create a new 25-credit "attunement" rune for warrior weapons. One can be attached to each 1h weapon, or a 2h weapon requires 2 for full effect.
2) Remove all warrior weapon runes from all warrior weapons, and replace them with one 25-credit attunement rune (refund as happened previously when the weapon runes were tweaked).
3) Make warrior weapon runes not attach to weapons any more, but instead to Standards.
4) You use the attunement rune to attune a weapon to your standard; a weapon can only be attuned to 1 standard, but many weapons can be attuned to the same standard.
5) When attuned, the weapon receives the benefit of the runes affixed to the standard; for a 2h weapon, if there is only one rune it receives only half-benefit.
At this point, you can actually raise the price of (some of) the warrior runes; you could even double the cost of the stat and wounding runes if you really wanted to (since warriors would only need to buy 1 now, instead of 2), but it'd probably be better to just make the highest level 1000 credits or so (bringing the credit cost to around 2050 credits, +50 credits for each additional weapon set).
Leave the elemental runes at the same price as they are, single-only, only one can be attached to a standard at a time.
Reduce the price of pliers to around 500cr, since without Warriors using them to plop runes around on a regular basis between weapon sets, their value plummets to a point where they might be something nice to have for other classes (move a shield rune around, move jewellery runes around, and so on).
I can dream; even with this change, being a warrior would be more expensive (comparing elementals & bleeding runes to the other class-specific artifacts such as music runes), but no longer more than twice-as.
Xenthos2012-10-13 13:43:50
Shorter version of the solution:
1) The main runes you buy to enhance your weapons all attach to your standard instead of to weapons themselves. They are adjusted in price because you only need 1 (it will affect all weapons linked to it).
2) The only runes that get attached to weapons directly are a new 25-credit rune. This cannot be attached unless the weapon is at 463 or less stats (to enforce the current limit). Once attached, you can tune the weapon to a standard (like you link vials to your liquid rift). The weapon then gets the effect of the runes attached to that standard.
This standardizes warriors, makes our runes much more similar to the runes of other classes, removes ballooning credit expenditures, and gets rid of the entire "Warriors are so expensive, graagh" complaint that has been circulating for years.
1) The main runes you buy to enhance your weapons all attach to your standard instead of to weapons themselves. They are adjusted in price because you only need 1 (it will affect all weapons linked to it).
2) The only runes that get attached to weapons directly are a new 25-credit rune. This cannot be attached unless the weapon is at 463 or less stats (to enforce the current limit). Once attached, you can tune the weapon to a standard (like you link vials to your liquid rift). The weapon then gets the effect of the runes attached to that standard.
This standardizes warriors, makes our runes much more similar to the runes of other classes, removes ballooning credit expenditures, and gets rid of the entire "Warriors are so expensive, graagh" complaint that has been circulating for years.
Xenthos2012-10-13 13:44:45
* Additionally, Monks would need something (a sash, perhaps) that they can attach runes to themselves.
Rivius2012-10-13 13:56:27
I think this is an absolutely wonderful idea and really, really should be considered. It would make things much fairer as far as warrior costs go and switching different weapon specializations.
Kaikazu2012-10-13 14:02:50
I agree, this is a very interesting concept that could make runes and multiple weapons a lot more accessible. It definitely solves what is quite clearly a glaring issue - regardless of the existence of pliers - and it does it neatly and in a way that is easy to understand.
Like I've said elsewhere, if this were implemented for monks - I don't really see it anywhere near as necessary there, but still a nice-to-have - I don't like the idea of having some kind of tailored sash unless said sash was already important to the monks somehow.
The idea came to me that tattoos would be the closest analogue to the knights standard, but it doesn't really seem intuitive or viable to attach runes to tattoos. The more I think about it though, somehow attaching a rune to one's ka and then projecting their energy into weaponry seems pretty hardcore and monkish to me.
Like I've said elsewhere, if this were implemented for monks - I don't really see it anywhere near as necessary there, but still a nice-to-have - I don't like the idea of having some kind of tailored sash unless said sash was already important to the monks somehow.
The idea came to me that tattoos would be the closest analogue to the knights standard, but it doesn't really seem intuitive or viable to attach runes to tattoos. The more I think about it though, somehow attaching a rune to one's ka and then projecting their energy into weaponry seems pretty hardcore and monkish to me.
Lothringen2012-10-13 18:44:34
Supported!
Enyalida2012-10-13 19:04:23
This sounds like a good idea.
Just require that the attuning rune and the weapon runes have to belong to the same person, and I don't see a reason this wouldn't be fine!
Just require that the attuning rune and the weapon runes have to belong to the same person, and I don't see a reason this wouldn't be fine!
Malarious2012-10-13 19:05:48
Short version: Yay! I like this idea aloot!
Long version: I like this idea, and I fully back it working for monk weapons using the standard. That way you do not have to rebuy runes to go warrior to monk or monk to warrior, as casters dont have to pay anything to change between casting classes, physical should not have to pay more than attuning to switch between physical classes.
@Kaikazu: How needed is not the question, the goal is to have costs similar to casters. If I want to go warrior it shouldnt require 1000+ credit drop again.
Long version: I like this idea, and I fully back it working for monk weapons using the standard. That way you do not have to rebuy runes to go warrior to monk or monk to warrior, as casters dont have to pay anything to change between casting classes, physical should not have to pay more than attuning to switch between physical classes.
@Kaikazu: How needed is not the question, the goal is to have costs similar to casters. If I want to go warrior it shouldnt require 1000+ credit drop again.
