Moondancers = Largest Guild
Hartstone is up there..
Serenguard's in the bottom part.

We average about 20-30 people at any given time, Serenwilde's more, no?

Arranging to speak with either of Felemar or Visaeris would be a good roleplay experience for sure. Just coming up with an appropriate way of asking them and fitting it into character... *grins*.

Magnagora does indeed have strength in numbers and is doing well. Since we all know a game must have balance, the Divine will be throwing in their own twists here and there to keep each side appealing and up to scratch with the rest. There'll nearly always be a side in the lead, but you can guarantee it will change.

Let me reword, fueled by my first post, actively supportive members, and yes it's our fault with our disorganization, not saying otherwise, just thought I would state that before we open a whole thread on the issue.

I'm sure that Magnagora won't be able to hold its dominating grip upon the world forever be we will certainly try and when we do lose our grip, we'll go nuts sorting out how to get it back

Celest is getting a bit better, it's a bit aggravating saying things and only hearing yourself talk for the most part. Trying to organize things with people there just tends to go no where quick. Everytime someone would try and do something they'd get smacked back by people saying that the council wasn't in power to approve of anything, which annoyed me to no end. If people would've acted like leaders without the title things would've gotten together a lot faster and done by now. What I loved was I put together something to help the city and posted it on the newsboard and someone questioned why I did it and said it was a waste and that it'll make the new posts go up fast. Dear gods.. information on the news board who would've thought!

Wish that was our case, up to like 250 now, you can section them into like 24 posts for food, 28 about power, etc etc

We have enough people, it's just that no one seems to care. If people cared, we could defend more villages easily. At times it seems like Ibaesha and I are the only ones freeing furrikin from Acknor or even bothering to check on them. I've seen a few sporadic attempts to free undead miners, and they usually just end up without someone getting killed by a group of Magnagorans.

That, I will concede. Our active supporting members are far far far more numerous than any other city. Many of you have said that we've recieved the unfavourable elements of the game world, but I disagree. While originally we did, what we have now are people who want to play in a harsher society, with more shady beliefs and darker concepts. We 'unsavourables' tend torwards the darker concepts, and these concepts almost always emphasize domination and control. Our citizens, while exceptionally free-minded, know their place, and will do as they are told.

What I think is really amazing is that we lucked out in terms of who joined the city. I think that at least 80% of the citizens, be they novices or full members, are willing to raid a village, defend a village, or even go somewhere knowing they'll die, all for the good of the city. This sense of loyalty, combined with a clearly established organisational structure, means that we have a very large base of disciplined citizens who are able to follow commands and who will die to fulfill their objectives.

I have contacts in almost every organisation, and so I keep track of the political and social movements therein. Thus I am fairly well appraised of the current situation that both New Celest and Serenwilde face. New Celest, branded by and large as the "Goody Goody" city, attracted those who think that democracy is the best way to go and everyone must have a voice. Serenwilde, as a 'commune' seems to have been picked up by you socialists I kid, but you guys tend torwards the beliefs of equality and expect the group's input when making any decision. Magnagora... Well. Let me go ahead and say that when I wrote my articles of dictatorship, backed only by my martial power, that resulted in a lot of conversation. Many people argued that I was a horrible horrible person for trying to "ZOMG CRETE DA DICTATURSHEIP", but many argued in favour of a dictatorship. This was the advantage we had, and I think as long as we keep things hierarchical we'll be able to maintain our lead simply due to a compliant, but still free-thinking, populace.

Hopefully when the cities get their leaders then maybe things will start to improve, all three candidates for Emperor of Magnagora have basically said that they don't want the city to be full of thugs, but more like crafty evil, always plotting stuff etc and using killing as a last resort. Maybe we can get away from the normal "Me evil, me kill" approach that a lot of people seem to like.

Yeah! The problem is that the majority of us only kill in the defense of our villages or our city or guildmates....unfortunately it seems like one of these components is being attacked non-stop and thus we are fighting non-stop. I think that is part of the reason why we have been branded with the "trigger-happy" and "ready" to kill label when in actually it's just us protecting what is ours.

Yes, Visaeris, we Celestians do believe that we are a Democratic nation...


And that's the problem, we're not. We're supposed to be a theocracy. We're supposed to be ruled by religion, not by 'everyone has a vote' type of thing, and that's where our main problem comes from. And this problem stems from everyone applying OOC values to the IC game, by thinking that democracy is 'good' because democracy is 'America', and therefore Celest should be democracy because Celest should be 'America' which is very, very irritating.

The most disappointing thing overall is that there isn't much of a roleplaying environment set up yet, but I feel it is coming along slowly.

I would like to roleplay with Magnagorans, but pretty much any time I get near one and they see me, they try to kill me.

And Visaeris, the reason why many of us think you are a griefer type player is because you have killed people randomly before without any apparent reason, such as Elayna on the Isle of Light... and a reason like 'she was getting sand, I was stopping her' is a stupid cop out reason.

And, in the first week or so, every other hour of playing someone from Magnagora would be in Southgard killing everything, even the women and children. Even though the only thing they really needed were the miners, they still felt the need to kill everything in the village. This, to me, would be an evil practice. If these characters truly weren't evil, then they would at least have honor and only kill that which was necessary. I'm not saying this is how all of Magnagora is, but it is how everyone perceived it to be due to the actions of these characters. So basically in Celest right now the mood is that Magnagora is full of a bunch of people who only know how to kill, and have no other reason to live other than to kill, because that's all they do when they're in contact with Celestians or Celestian related NPC's.

You can't do those things and then try to pull of that you aren't 'evil'. If you want to do that, you have to actually have honor in your practices.

This is not to say that Celestians haven't done the same. Though I don't know who specifically did 'dishonorable' things such as the examples I gave, if I did I would make sure they never did it again. If the whole city knew it would be possible that they would even get kicked out. Just a couple days ago I found out that one person had raided Rockholm when it was controlled by Magnagora, and it made me really angry because people like that make a bad name for Celest.

The fact of that matter is.....evil is too much of a restraining word....say that we are savage or barbaric or ruthless for slaying people without need, that's fine but that isn't evil....Charles Manson isn't even, he IS maniacal, twisted, demented, wrong, sick, insane, brutal, barbaric and savage though. I don't think people would jump as much to terms such as the ones listed vice the word evil....evil is just too plain and dull.

I agree with Felemar, "evil" is just far too broad and can mean anything you want it to mean at the time. I'll use it, but normally quote it to show that it doesn't matter which aspect I'm referring to.

I think Rilandria is so very right about the running of Celest. We shouldn't be a Democracy. Possibly it's the whole America thing. Not that you get Democracy in America. You sure as hell don't get it here in England.

The 80% citizens willing to lay down their life for their country idea that Visaeris put forth is quite impressive as well. We seem to have a lot of people in Celest that just sit back and ignore the remainder of the city. We do have a core group of people that get involved more than most.

Running it as a theocracy might be difficult for many to accept initially. If it could be set up and it continues that way it would be a much richer world for people to join in the future.

As Visaeris viewed initially, Celest - Democracy, Serenwilde - Communist, Magnagora - Despotic... okay so he might have been joking about Serenwilde.. but it seems like an interesting look into some peoples' psychologies... *grins*

Serenwilde isn't a city! -thwap-

Ok, so Magnagora is down on this side of the bar (this side being closer to the 'evil' side) and Celest is over on that side of the bar (that side being closer to good)... Where is Serenwilde? Are we supposedly neutral? What's our stance on stuff supposed to be?

I agree with Sylphas, I don't want our commune turning into a bunch of tree-hugging hippies. I think the faelings and pixies and those stuck up elfen guards are gay enough. (No offense to any gay people out there.) What I'd like to see is our shops opening up, money being made, skills being learned and our commune becoming self-sufficient so that we don't -have- to go to Bob's for supplies, we can get all we need from our own shops.

I think that one of the "problems" that Serenwilde MAY---I emphasize may---is based on the Wiccan guild itself....because, if you know anything about Wicca, one of the beliefs is that everyone is equal regardless and while this may be true, it simple doesn't work as the logic for a city/commune. Alright, everyone is equal and that is fine, so everyone should be out there, side by side taking over villages and the like instead of waiting for everyone else's opinions. I am a firm believer in asking before acting but some times, that simply isn't an option.

From what I glean Azora, Serenwilde is supposed to despise cities in general thus shunning both Celest and Magnagora....if you call that neutral then so be it but that's just my opinion.

"I'm really disappointed that I haven't met any manipulative evil people, or anything... it's all just KILL KILL KILL evil. "
Ok a word or two about manipulative evil. One, If they are any good at it, you wouldn't find them. The most evil people tend to be the people you think are good. Second, if you have the title of "manipulative evil" then nobody is going to trust you on anything.

And I have some comments for visaeris and magnagora but I don't think I'll bother.

And lastly... Like imperian Lusternia has a set conflict that does not intriscally involve good or evil, unless your looking at the world from a christan point of view. And I havn't seen any sort of Church in Lusternia for that to be the case.

You have the New Tainted Empire, New Celest (vestige of old empire) and Serenwilde, the people who think those empires are crazy and are going to destroy the world again. So in theory, the battle lines should be Magnagora vs the world, Serenwild vs the Cities, and Celest trying to either keep a balance or rebuilt its empire and remove the Taint from the world.

You must remebmer, the "Demon Lords" use to be these great angelic beings before the Taint got to them. I prefer to look at the taint as being "Twisted" Pain is pleasure, horns are beutifull, Wrath is compassion, that sort of thing.

---Oh and Felemar check your forum messages. Its the little PM button on the bottom left of a post.

Is there any doubt?

I don't think of it as a bar and the different sides, more like a triangle, with the cities and commune on each of the points. With each point representing each of the city and commune's stance on the Taint.

That's how I view it and I hope it makes sense.