I love the way people say "exploiting" as if this is some sort of bug. Every IRE game I've played has totems usable in this manner. If you can't handle the heat, get outta DoC. You can't expect to commit yourself to a clandestine organisation dedicated to the destruction of Serenwilde's guardian spirit and then not experience any consequence. If it bothers you, don't go into Serenwilde!

I can understand the players of the DoC. I guess I would be similarily annoyed but please try to see it from our position. Without the totems noone would really have a chance to catch a spy. I have some ideas how you could circumvent this problem but you understand that I won't tell you.
Actually I didn't know that it was possible to tune totems even against single clans untill I heard about it recently. Magic is strong in Lusternia, very strong and fooling it requires a lot of cunning.

If some of the people replying here would just read the first post properly, they'd see that the complaint is not about the fact that they are getting hurt by the totems, it's about the fact that Serenwilde has a fool-proof way of detecting anyone who's in the clan, by whether the totems hit them or not. Not all of you, mind, but some people seem to be missing the point (Which I completely agree with, by the way). I'm sure that Visaeris would not be complaining (Or at least, not so much ) about the totems if the clan were not meant to be secret...

And is secret...this is the Serenwilde way to find secret things like that though. Totems in all IRE games can be set this way, and private clans know this. Not many private clans try to infiltrate the place they are seeking to damage (read my prior post)...and if they do, they sever ties with the former group to spy on the current one. Later they return to their old group.

I can understand both points of view. I am currently unaware of any methods of determining whether or not someone is a member of a private clan. As such, it does make sense that Serenwilde has set up totems, as that's their only available defense against us.

Perhaps a skill could be added that detects various organizations that a character is involved in? That would provide everyone with a defense and not interfere with private clans as much.



This was, unfortunately, not very practical in my case. Due to the fact that Visaeris is the only one that can invite people into the clan, and he's very rarely present at the same time as myself, it could have taken an incredibly long period of time to get back into the clan.

Also, Visaeris never stated that this is why he asked about the totems. He said that it interferes with the privacy of a private clan. Certainly, there should be ways of detecting spies, but what of those Crows that merely took a wrong turn somewhere and end up getting hit by a totem?

On a side note, if you're reading this Caedryn, my compliments on the totem. Nice choice of runes. It was one of the most amusing deaths that I've ever suffered.

Uhm, I am not sure about private clans but as GM I can just do 'guild score bob' and see to which clans Bob belongs. He must be a member of my guild of course...it might be that it still doesn't show private clans but I doubt it.

Removed Post

Guild score (person) doesn't show private clans, or orders for that matter.

Well, Visaeris no longer ask people in the DoC to leave their city/guild, so it isn't really fair that Serenwilde can put a totem on Mother, and make everybody walk there once to check for possible spies or wathever... Kind of takes away the purpose of private clans, in my opinion.

Totems can pick on people who are in private clans, mortals cannot.

Totems aren't mortals. They're magical. And since they can pinpoint and attack anyone in a certain city without being specifically told the names of people, it should be the same for private clans.

Well...we should take out the ability to target any one organization, right? I mean, how does a totem know if you're Magnagoran? Pfft, give me a break. DoC isn't secret, they flaunted it all over when it first opened. It's their fault everyone knows about them.

Also, I don't care if Visaeris says they can be members of cities. Serenwilde is in direct oposition with them, so they're not going to be welcome in the Seren....ever.

I guess this topic has prettymuch run its course.. It's back to the petty "ZOMG CROWS R TRYING TO HURT SERENWILDE" that every other topic I post seems to degenerate into.

My argument in a nutshell, in case a divinity reads this: I'm fine with Totems hitting people who are Crows. But if I induct Joebob the GR2 Serenguard and he never tells anyone and secretly does stuff, why should a totem be able to tell he's a Crow? It's just.. cheap. Leave the ousting of spies to players and RP, not some automagical device.

It certainly takes away from a bit of the cloak and daggar RP, if you can have a serenguard walking by mother killed.

Utlizing a totem to ferret out spies is no different then modern usage of wiretaps, sattelites, and such.

How do you find out who the Crows are, without using tune totem against DoC? INFILTRATE THEIR ORGANIZATION.

That's what you do. Simple.

And Visaeris, agreed 100%. If you don't have too many posts accumulated, perhaps you can sell the clan, buy a new one, keep it secret permanently.

As a statement, this might be factually accurate, but it does not, by itself, become an argument for a particular judgement on the situation. The assumption that use of wiretaps, satellites, and such to ferret out spies is a Good Thing is not necessarily shared by all.

In character, Olan would be opposed to a group attempting to secretly infiltrate anything he was a part of.

He is currently positively predisposed to Crows, as he respected Visaeris before he left and knows of no plots against the city from them. He sees them as potential allies in the future. He has in no way helped them, nor hindered the efforts of the Serenwilde to fight them. He was randomly attacked by a Crow for being at the Ravenwood in transit from Ethereal, but that was worked out and forgiven.

Out of character, I think the use of totems to ferret out spies is repulsive. That is NOT role playing. That is using a game mechanic to AVOID role playing. It ruins an interesting story just so that the other team can 'win.' I don't care if it has been done in every other IRE game, again, that does NOT mean that it is good.

This is one of those cases where I think people's desire to play a game 'to win' overcomes our roleplaying instinct (and/or the people in question lack such an instinct). Characters in Serenwilde should oppose Crow, fine. For them to use a game mechanic to get around roleplaying out the conflict in an interesting manner and just 'automatically' know who is a Crow seems pretty lame to me.

The most amusing part is, the person who has most been accused of being a ruthless, power mongering, selfish PLAYER uninterested in role playing so much as winning is the one that is trying to role play the situation! Getting input from people. Asking in an OOC forum what people think. Taking severe personal limitations (power and such) for the sake of an interesting story, knowing the birth of the commune was not coming for quite some time. And even here, (at least most of) the people that oppose him are living up to his joking stereotype 'OMGZ.' Instead of seeing this as a story and playing along, it sounds like those who oppose Crow are (by and large) just playing game mechanics against them. The get free, automatic, fail safe inquisitors they can place where people HAVE to go to be a part of the commune.

Don't forget, kids, that "Lusternia Age of Ascension is an online roleplaying text game where gamers from all over the world come together to interact in a dynamic text universe." (FAQ).

Marvelous points. Here's hoping others listen to them.

Olan, yesterday in the influencing of Delport, I think I had said this to you, but anyways:

I love you.

Awww...see guys, Silvanus ain't the big meanie everyone paints him out to be!

I don't recall if you used those words exactly, but I gathered it from the whole collapsing in my arms crying in frustration part

That's actually an incredibly accurate and mature observation. I hadn't quite thought of it in that light.

And someone else said something about OHNO! Leave Crow if you can't stand it!!! You're all EVIL, and wanna kill our big stagy thing!



Let's not get into the "serenwilde wants to kill -our- fae" argument.