I don't get this whole thing that everyone seems to get, how all of Magnagora are thugs and evil s.o.b.'s...when the people from Serenwilde and Celest do the same and/or worse. Hell, take this one time, I was standing and talking to a friend, he summons someone to kill, he ends up being killed...and then I, just standing there and trying to have a conversation, am killed too. (by a person from serenwilde, fyi) Stop this whole thing about everyone from magnagora is a thug, all of celest are saints, and everyone from serenwilde just doesn't care. None of it is true.

Let's get something out of the way first: I don't have any hard feelings about getting killed by other players. To me, it's all part of the game. I've been playing PVP muds far too long to take these things personally. I don't measure my personal worth, or anyone else's, on an ability to play a game. I have never once whined, either in public or in private, upon being attacked with or without provocation.
That said, I voted yes. Just because something is programmed a certain way doesn't mean that all possible uses and abuses of it were realized, and some types of players tend to be particularly adroit at finding and exploiting such loopholes. I'm all for an exciting and challenging game, but like any other game there needs to be balance and a sense of fair play. This game is in a state where issues are still being discovered and resolved.
Finally, someone who makes a habit of attacking people 1/10 their size should be neither surprised nor offended when their chosen victims band together.

I can understand the point that not all uses and combinations can be predicted...but these also weren't unblockable skills by ANY stretch. More likely, Rhysus allowed the second summon, knowing he had a posse...but was outmaneuvered in terms of position, and got caught by the beckon. I don't think its abuse, because it required the decision to NOT act by the 'victim.' If Vis had used some unblockable summon skill that the group had no way to stop or resist, then it'd be a totally different story. But Rhysus knows better then to let himself be summoned if he doesn't want to be. And he got out-foxed.

I'm not understanding what's unfair about someone deliberately letting me summon them, not checking where they're being summoned to, and dying as a result about it.

Could you explain this?

Also as a followup, well what the hell? Everyone's smaller than me. Should I just not fight?

Well I guess it's no good. Just was informed ICly that it's not allowed. Score one for the whiners

You're confusing the fairness of the game's design with fair as in "he could do it to me too". The latter is not what I'm talking about. Any exploitable unintended feature is potentially unbalancing, and therefore unfair.

You are a vile fiend, Visaeris, and I mean that in the best way possible. Of course I don't expect you to change. But I'm betting you recognize the irony, whether or not you'll admit to it.

Honestly, I can think of a million ways to move someone into enemy territory without actually using SUMMON . This includes but is not limited to beckon. I would (and have) avoid any of these because, even though they are possible, to me they go against the -spirit- of the anti-summon shields (and the reasons those shields were setup).

In my opinion, whether Rhysus wanted to be summoned, or was summoned due to lack of attention on his part is really irrelevant. It doesn't matter if one agrees or disagrees with the rules about "summoning" into enemy territory, or thinks that the victim deserved it. What matters is that the divines have made it fairly clear that they don't like it (and if I'm wrong here, I'll take my divine spanking in good faith ).

And to be honest, I don't agree with the rules against summoning into enemy territory. To me, where you are summoned -from- matters more than where you were summoned -to-. If you are in enemy territory, then I think the owners should have a right to use any other attack that they see fit to remove you, including summoning into a city and city guards/statues.

Aye; he had every opportunity to avoid that, it would seem. Visaeris just set an ambush to take advantage of his carelessness.

I voted no.

I'm a fan of the "If you're stupid enough to let yourself be summoned, you have no right to complain about what is or isn't fair after that point" outlook.

I also don't like the fact that you can't summon people into guards. Its their own darn fault.

It will be changed when I wrap up my current project. It should be rather obvious that forcing someone into a situation where they unwillingly enter a 100% open PK area is contrary to the spirit of our PK system and is abusive. It's not called the find-the-loophole system for a reason. That spell worked because I figured if you were hanging around one room away from a city of your own free will and volition then you are pretty much asking for it. I had not foreseen the possibility of people bing forced from afar to stand outside a city and then be pushed in.

BTW, I believe some people advocating allowing this loophole were not too long ago whining about being summoned into enemy villages and slaughtered and are the reason for that anti-summoning defence to begin with...

Psh. Damn you Roark!

Ok.. what the hell CAN we do with summon? Just our friends? There's really no point in summoning enemies if you're not allowed to summon them into anything.

Oh I'm going to give summoning people underwater a shot, and maybe summoning them into aggressive mobs, and so on and so forth.

If you can't directly summon people into the city, I don't see how indirectly doing so could possibly not be a loophole (if you can excuse me stating the obvious after the issue has apparently been resolved).

Guards are not meant to be your own personal army. If they can be used as a part of ordinary combat, then people start being dicks and enemying random people to the city just to fight 'em (not that i'm saying that was the case here, mind you). Guards are meant to defend the city, not act as an offensive force - that's what you're for, as a citizen.

I think it's not a loophole simply because it was Rhysus' cockiness that got him whacked upside the head Oh well

That's me, Visaeris Mae'loch, Guinea Pig and Loophole Hunter extraordinaire!

You're going to make it impossible to summon anyone but friends. Is that what you want?

It's a tool, I'm going to use it any way I can to make people dead.

If using something is going to get it banned, and you're whining that it's being used BECAUSE that's going to get it banned.. do you see the paradox? If you don't use it for fear of ban, then it's as good as banned already. Plus, if using it is going to get it banned, then not using it.. is as good as banned. And if you use it and it gets banned.. then it IS banned.