Allies being on your bully list shouldn't be too much of a problem - ask them to newbie kick/punch you and, ta-dah!, they aren't there. If they refuse to do such a thing, that means they're not really your allies.

Not sure if these were mentioned yet but these are my two problems with Avenger:


1) If I have a thrall *which I don't anymore but it would still be nice for people with entities* and it gets attacked, I would think that would be the same as an attack on me and therefore a valid reason to call Avenger.

2) Kill stealing----It annoys the hell out of me. Like last night, I was up in the Mountains killing rockeaters when this Paladin Novice came in and attacked and killed the rockeater. I let it slide and went about my business.....he did it a second time and let that slide. The third time I asked him to stop and he said that he was sorry. I went on about my business, he comes in and does it again. I asked him to stop again. A third time he did it, I asked him to stop....fourth time, I attacked him once and asked him to stop again.....the fifth time I went into killing him. It's just annoying in situations like this that people can run around and have basically free reign of what they wish.


Beyond that, it works well.

I definitely like the idea about being able to transfer your "suspect" to a Champion. That's what a champion is for, after all, being able to do the killing for the people he's a champion for. I'd even like to see a more general system where you can transfer your suspect status to someone else in more broad circumstances -- for instance, transfer to your husband or wife, or let people in a non-warrior guild transfer to someone in a warrior guild in the same commune.

I'm sure there would be ways to exploit and misuse this, and restrictions to prevent that would threaten to make things complex where they should be simple. But maybe there'd be a simple way to limit these exploits.

I definitely like the Avenger system, despite the problems that will be worked out in time. I haven't had call to use it yet, though.

Maybe there should be a command to forgive someone their suspect status. I am a suspect for someone because at his behest I helped him reincarnate. He's not going to prosecute that (and I'm not going to kill him again!) but it'd be nice if he could make that official.

The problem I see with Roark's Braves approach is the question of when you can enter or leave Braves status. People might well enter or leave it to get themselves around the rules. But then, people might have IC reasons to enter or leave it too. But the real concern with it is that it leaves out a large middle group that one would hope would be the majority: people who want to be able to PK for serious RP causes (like "she was threatening the things I believe in") but not have to worry about PK for petty and made-up RP and non-RP reasons ("she said something obliquely critical of me" or "I just was in a mood for blood and, ooh, here's an excuse I found lying on the road on the way in"). Would those be Braves or non-Braves? Aren't those the people we want in the realm?

That's why I think Avenger has a lot of promise. We just need to fiddle with the code implementation of "serious RP causes" (enemy status during conflicts, for instance) and the ways it will be (and is being) misused.

Being able to call the Avenger for this may be a little over the top, but maybe if it made them a suspect (or whatever the pre-"send Avenger into attack mode" status is) and only ever a suspect, that would let you defend your loyals because it would cancel out.

I agree about the transfer idea - being able to transfer your vengeance to your Champion or Protector - or maybe anyone (though this opens up the whole 'Assasinations for 2gp' market) - and give them the opportunity to kill the bully with no suspect gained.
For one thing, it would increase the RP aspect of these roles, which is great.
The problem is, would it be effective enough?

You only get suspect when you die (your first death to the person), so this would not be possible.

It just seems odd that your entities can be attacked without reprecussions......at the very least it seems like there should be a recall ability. The Nihilists have a thrall pen in their guildhall so it just seems like the thralls should be called back there like falcons/dogs from other games.

Your entities dying won't kill your experience, so it's not much of a loss.

But they ussually cost power to summon.

They do cost power and it seems more logical to have them go to a safe area so that you only need to use power if they die vice using power every time. And if the entities are killed it takes power now anyway so.

Well defend them then, or run!

What often happens is, I get killed in the middle of a group attack.....when all of us die, my thrall goes poof....that sucks......

Maybe one possible solution to the guildmates vengeance problem would be something like an ability to get rid of the vengeance status on a person. REJECT VENGEANCE or the like. This could lead to people threatening to use vengeance on others if vengeance on them isn't rejected... not sure if that's a good thing or bad, depends on how you look at I guess.

ok, having just had my first run in with the Avenger, I have something to constribute.

1. I had pk careful on. I don't think I had ever hit the person in question before. By the end of the day, he had a vengeance and another suspect. It didn't prevent me from attacking. Wasn't that the point? It was massive group combat. He apparently didn't attack ME, but only my mates. The world encourages this sort of combat but the Avenger doesn't deal well with it.

2. I think the power drain is over the top. Over the course of two agonizingly long deaths, I lost between 40 and 50% reserves power. I realize it is supposed to be punishment, and supposed to be deterring. Dying already sucks. I think losing all your reserves is over the top.

Happily, Avenger was called while I was on the planes. 3 cheers for conglutination.

Yeah, I lost 90% of my power reserves to the mystical avatar of the Avenger. I think powersink is still buggy. It so frustrating

Not sure if this has been said, or even how useful it will be, but how about if someone attacks a member of a guild/city/commune then they become a suspect of that guild/cuty/commune so if another member steps in to defend then Vengance can't be enacted.

For example Person X from City A is walking along and gets attacked by Persons R and S from city B. Person Y, who is from City A, is near walks in on tha attack and kills Person R. I'm not 100% on how the Avenger works but it seems to me like Person Y will be a suspect to Person R under the current working. But with the changes that I have suggested Persons R and S will be suspects to City A and when Person Y kills Person R, Person R si removed from the suspects.

The organisational suspects will have to last for a very short time to help avoid abuse.

Person A is a level 30 something, quite happy of the game.
Bully A comes and kills her for _no_ reason (this includes not having ever talked to her, never seen her before the moment of the death) aided by bully B who does the summon.
Person A cannot use the avenger, cannot talk to the guild superiors of that bully because that bully has already enough high rank, and cannot hire anybody to kill that person because the hired person whould be on suspects for Bully A.

Where's the RP that person A sees? Because this looks like she being just easy bashing instead of bashing NPCs.

If there's no way RP reasons for killing are enforced, this will end up in a "c'mon, it's the time for your montly killing" of those psicopaths who have bought 5000 credits to the ones who have not the money, the time or the interest to develop an advanced combat system. As long as somebody can kill you once a month just because you're easy experience I find Avechan absolutely not enough.

It could be checked those who have a suspects lists of 50 people why do they killed or attacked those 50 people without being security, protectors or whatever.

If you can identify which attack went through PK careful then message me. That would be a bug.



I do not believe dying drains power. Maybe someone else designed and coded that (there are some areas of mechanics I am not familiar with), but I've never heard of this. You certain it wasn't power you expended in the normal course of battle?

The Avenger uses powersink as one of it's afflictions I believe. From what I've heard powersink is seriously bugged to the point where you can lose almost 100% of your power in one shot or, if you have no power, actually gain power back.

The Mage or whatever you call it Avatar of the Avenger uses Powersink