Look at horehound. Then expand that across every single herb.

I disagree. Commodities make up an equally huge portion of the economy. Sheep = wool and meat, cows = leather, meat and milk. Wool is needed for clothing, leather for clothing and armor. Meat and milk are also needed for food. Now, perhaps the culinary industry isn't as screwed up as the horehound one, but comparatively, the rest of herbs are doing extremely well, while it's near impossible to find any substantial amount of leather or meat in commodity shops - even visiting city comm. shops is either hard or simply very, very expensive.

I'm not sure if you had your argument just a little muddled, but cows and sheep need to be killed (or at least, lead to a village) for the commodity quests that provide leather and meat and the rest of it. I'm not even sure if the villages generate commodities without being brought the raw ingredients like cow carcases or rockeater corpses.

The commodity industry is just as important as the herbal one, and there are physically far more people who use commodity tradeskills (Forging, Enchantment, Jewelry, Tailoring, Cooking) than Herbalism - and their sense of frustration at having certain commodities constantly bought out to 0 (causing the price to rise) is just as great as yours at the lack of horehound.

That's what I'm saying, without saying it? It's sort of been what I was arguing. Organizations like Oakstone are needed because people are greedy and inconsiderate.

Do what I do. Sit back and laugh that all those people in every other IRE MUD finally got their wish of no one controlling herbs and get to revel in the results. *shrug*

Of course on the flipside it gets really annoying watching all your hard work replanting go to nothing time and time again.

I really like the idea of being able to establish your own personal greenhouse.

Hmm.

Haven't been able to read this, recently, had computer problems.

I was the first one accused of all the hideous 'crimes' (I believe). As a note, this is the first time I've tried playing anything forestal-type.

Everyone that *had* actually accused me had a demonstrable problem with me, or have come from so far out of leftfield that even giving them credibility makes a mockery of the current organisation trying to control herbs.

Aldrich, for instance, got *very* annoyed when I named him as being the one responsible for horehound overharvesting in Balach (I observed him doing so on three consecutive months), and tried to have a go at me in my commune, to the point that the Marshall intervened. On pointing this out, naming four other non-Naturalist witnesses (including one that named him as being responsible for the extinction of horehound in Serenwilde), nothing happened.

The other people named as accusing me are Katryal, who is a tailor, and Val, a jeweller.

Another interesting thing is that it appears that the whole mess was the result of one person, Charis, passing judgement on a 'suspect' that she'd never actually seen, spoken to, or had anything to do with, prior to enemying him.

From what I understand, even Oakstone has the courtesy to talk to the people it suspects of something.

If they can fix these problems - *maybe* the clan will be worth something.

reading a few of these posts I realize the problem... YOu all replant too much. Stop replanting and those over harvesting will relize plants have a source and will replant themseleves, then you can go harvest their plantings and watch them complain.

I never said that the other commodities or trade skills were any less important. The fact of the matter is, it is possible to pretty much endlessly lead sheep/rockeaters/cows to the villages to increase production of all of the commodities derived from them. And I believe that villages actually DO offer commodities even without quests being done, granted it's at a much lower rate. I was a jeweler before I was an Herbalist and I know how the Gem commodity frustration was. I'm trying to get fieldplate as it is, I know how the steel commodity strain is. But the fact of the matter is, you KNOW for a FACT that at least a LITTLE bit of these commodities will come to the city comm shops at some point in the month. And as for high prices? 100 gold for a commodity is wonderful to me compared to 300 gold for a freaking single piece of horehound. You're right, other herbs are doing at least decent but even still, there are herbs that need help even still.

Ok, I said I wasn't going to post anymore but...

I finally got some work today! anyways I notice others commenting on the -time- aspect of their trades. Herbs take time to pick etc. And as I was sitting waiting for my customer to get his act together I couldn't help but think about the time involved in alchemy

I was wandering around avenchas peak, taking in the sights since I really hadn't got out to explore much. Someone asked on the commune channel if anyone could refil a health, he stated he had horehound so I offered. Waited for a few minutes for him to drop off a pilgrim and sort himself out. Then he came to me, and we travelled to the commune. I filled his health at a cost of 2 power and the other herbs that were required for the potion. I charged him 120 made a nice tidy 30 gold profit for myself. 30 gold for 5 minutes work.

Then as I was sitting there another request over market this time, for health and vitae. I responded I could if he had the herbs that I was missing. Since I'm still having cash flow problems and herb supply problems.. cant buy them if you don't have the gold. So then I had to look up exactly what herbs were needed, inform him which nes I was lacking work out a cost based on a half an half situation with the herbs. always annoying to do. Only to be told 'i'll get back to you'. So do I sit here and wait for him to get back to me. Or do I return to my wanderings only to be called back to the alembic again.

In 10 minutes I made 30 gold.

It is much the same situation when I want to purchase herbs too, a couple of requests, waiting. trying to barter for a decent price. more waiting. Then waiting for the herbalists to find time to meet. more waiting. Or aot of walking around shops looking for what I need. Often the alembic is being used by another, and if they have a big order it can be quite some time before I get to use it myself. I was waiting 20 minutes yesterday to use it.

I'm sure all the trades can make similar comments on time and this isn't an invitation for everyone else to pipe up about the amount of time vs profit their trade involves too. I still would like to see alchemists have the ability to gather some ingredients themselves. It would give us some kind of compensation for the time and cost of our trade. Horehound is still not available in any kind of useable quantity and our profit margins are very slim. If we had half a dozen ingredients we could gather ourselves (independant of the herb system) we'd have more room to make a living and be able to supply the potions needed by the land

I'd charge more if I were you Tsigany. There is no point trying to be fair and equitable when everyone else is out to make as much as possible; 30 gold is not very much of a profit.

All it takes is one trans alchemist, who has a deal with a few trans herbalists to supply him with the herbs he needs in return for the potions needed by the herbalist. They're getting herbs at either grossly reduced rates, or free and can offer potions at prices which reflect their costs and still make a nice profit. So then the choices become that of sell at similar price in order to actually get work and make noext to nothing, or don't get the work.

Again I see this is a problem with the alchemists relying solely on other players to supply their raw materials. I know that coms can be bought out and are not always available. But the trades that use coms still have to buy them somehow, a forger can't suddeny get 300 steel in return for making a sword so they can't undercut their fellow tradesmen and women by that much as there is still a cost involved in their trade.

Honestly it is damned tempting to create an alt, trans out herbs and find myself a middle man willing to transport herbs along to my alchemist so I can make ends meet. If we can take some of that dependance on herbalists out of the equation it would allow more alchemists to actually gain work as well as being able to supply potoins.

I agree with you there.

The idea of Alchemists harvesting for themselves is somewhat tempting, but then we would be undercutting them and would be as much at fault as the people undercutting us.

We need a solution, oh lovely Divine Folk!

I usually pay the alchemist 100 gold coins per healing refill..and I bring my own herbs. I think that is only fair.
If it is such a pain to get herbs for you, Tsigany, maybe you should contact the right people then. I have most herbs in stock, sometimes even some spare horehound. Just contact me and you surely won't have to wait long.
I noticed that speed often decides if you sell herbs or not...and of course luck, like being busy on Astral with sparkleberries and meeting some Celestians who just need the right herbs.

*le squealies Niara*

False dilemma. Any reason you can’t blame both? Surely, the designers have to know that herb harvesting is a problem from time to time. Now there may be things we haven’t figured out about the system, but blaming users for designer choices seems a fit flawed.

Er... Plants not growing back would be the equivalent of prices rising on comms, or not producing as much in mines because of lack of miners. When somone overharvests, their choice to make, it's them effecting the economy much like lack of dwarves and prices raising. This is not a flaw from the designers, it's to make a bit more reality to the situation, teaches responsibility. Overharvesting is a problem, but not a problem by the designers.

Heh, sad it needs to be voiced, but we need responsible business practices here. Perhaps our good Professor could educate the land in smart business?

What's the difficulty? Someone harvests below 10 and doesn't fix it or pay a penance to a RESPONSIBLE organization (Oakstone! ), put them so far in the ground they'll have to pull their socks down to see.

Apparently health is changing so never fear people, the health refill will be saved.

You miss the point. The designers wouldn't have created the system in this way unless they wanted overharvesting to be possible. You can agree with their decision or disagree with it, but if they didn't want it this way they could change it, therefore anyone who disagrees with the decision can ‘blame’ the designers if they so chose. I am not saying I blame them, or they should be blamed, (because I’m not sure the system is broke. When I’ve asked certain questions the people can’t give me answers.) but I don’t think logically one can tell people they ‘the designers’ cannot be blamed. I could easily use the logic here and say the players cannot be blamed because they’re operating as the designers intended.