Don't get me wrong, Asarnil...I don't want to touch essays and stuff with a 10 foot pole. Olan would never encourage or propose something of the sort. BUT I have been around IRE games and in the upper ranks of guilds and cities enough to know that power and arrogance are cheap commodities. As I noted in another thread, I've seen city laws that outcitizen people (then strongarm outguildings) for anyone shrubbed, without even a query whether it is permanent or anything. For an OOC punishment, an IC punishment levied with no jury. And you can't exactly appeal loss of class if you're outguilded because of it.

Anyway, most of those same issues aren't exactly critical here. My point (and maybe 'funnies' isn't the place for it ) was that since guild and city leadership are no longer the entirely distinct entities that they were in other games, if the guild leadership wanted to bind people to the guild (for loyalty or city culture or straight power trip reasons), they could all come to agreement that citizens must be guilded. Done. If you think this is crazy, I suggest thinking again.

<> Compose an essay of a minimum of three hundred words on the subject of the political structures in the two cities and the commune. This is a research heavy task, that will require you to gather information from various outsiders.

It's not a requirement, and that was actually the easier essay of the bunch that I've seen.

Jeez, what guild is -that- essay from?

Nihilists...trust me, it's one of the easier essays. There are different ones depending on which path you take in the guild.

Ah I see.

The Geomancers have one required essay, but it's not really an essay. It's more like...list information any way you want about a village. I really don't think it's going to scare away everyone who wishes to be a Geomancer. But that's my opinion of course.

Heh. I was outcitized from Magnagora for telling information about an Iron Council plot to a citizen and warned them. I was thrown out by Silvanus and the Arilyon threw me out of the Geomancers. Heh, Roleplay I should be out of the city, but it is argueable for the Geomancers. But, to answer your question Olan, it is already an unwritten rule it seems.

I don't know who didn't fill you in on this Typhus.. but if you want to stay in a guild its often your best policy not to piss off its leadership directly. Arilyon heads the guild as well as sits on the council, as does every guild leader. As such the leadership of the cities and the guilds are totally entwinded in Lusternia. If you are under the sway of both guild and city, and manage to offend one, expect to hear from the other, especially in Magnagora.

And don't say this is a new thing, from day one we've said as such.

----taken directly from one of our GHELP files----
Our guild is bound to the city of Magnagora, as such, we adhere to the rules the city has mandated. If you find yourself in violation of one of those rules, not only could it lead to your no longer being a citizen, but it will also lead to your no longer being a Geomancer.

What suprises me is that you didn't seem to expect it, in that you saw what happened to Velius when he did the EXACT same thing.



edit: names names names... always correcting names.

Back to the original topic... the Occultists aren't such a bad guild. But they thrive on conflict (ie. the conflict of others, exploiting other groups, obtaining information, that type of thing) and as of late, conflict in Achaea is deader than... well, it just doesn't exist, at all. So they've been kinda boring. There's only so far you can go when rituals etc. depend on Divine help...

As for essays and stuff as guild requirements, I don't think they're such a bad idea if you only have one or two. But there are better ways to get a person to define things in their own head - and isn't that the aim of most essays? If you have to write about stuff like "give examples of how the Taint has effected the modern world" then that's obviously aimed at both defining the Taint, and having your character learn what it does, which is a good thing. But when you get half a dozen to do, and everyone who chooses a certain path in the guild has to write the exact same thing, it just gets old and the point is lost. You'd be better off just having a short interview or something, where the novices/probates/apprentices/whatever had the chance to read the essays written by the last generation, to learn about the subject matter.

Of course, this is only if you're actually into that type of thing. Some people are much more at home learning how to kill, do quests to protect their city's nexus, bash, get gold, and learn skills, so of course they're gonna hate anything written or requiring, for example, a good knowledge of the histories. Guilds should be able to accomodate all of these types of people.

I'm not mad at it as a player, just as a character. As a player I always viewed the Guilds a bit more independant than mindless peices of the city. For example, in Aetolia the situation in Ashtan became unbearable for the Infernal Knight Guild there so we moved the Bloodloch. Now, I can see how the power setup was to discourage rouges, since Aetolia was filled with them, just ask Van, but since the Guild leadership basically owns your soul or you will be hunted continuously for leaving and enemied for keeping skills since you don't have 500 credits laying around... Bah, I'm ranting. What my point is all this !@#kissing sort of leaves a bitter taste in the mouth you know? Heh. Well, if things get too unbearable there are always alts.

I think essays are fine when they are used as an additional way to maybe gain a guildrank but to use them as a requirement, especially with additions like no less than 500000 words, then it gets painful.

Indeed, it would allow casual players to advance at their own rate instead of a thousand and one "requirements" that the Guild leadership itself never went through and would have the time to so itself, yet it excepts a novice with little knowledge, no gold, and a small understanding of their place in the world to figure things out... Just something about such a system doesn't seem effective.

My stars! Is that a real question from the game? Tell me it isn't.

Hm. Hm.

Essays and things are a sticky wicket. I spoke a bit on guild requirements in general on another thread, and this is obviously related. In Lusternian terms, essays can obviously not really be used to prevent people gaining class, so we lose out on the 'we'll make you write thousands of essays or you'll never get class or leave novicehood muahaha!' espoused in other realms. Which is a Good Thing. Using essays as a means to identify people who are deserving of guildfavour is, on the other hand, quite good.

As for the length of the requirements, just to give some idea, the post Typhus made two above mine is at least 130 words, so that's nearly half of a 300-word 'essay'. Mine will likely be longer, but I'm long-winded. So 300 words is nothing. 500 words is almost nothing. Granted, some people can't write to save their own souls but, it's a TEXT MUD, so learn. And yes, special dispensation can and should be made for those who don't speak English natively.

Of course, righteously slaying the enemies of the guild/city/commune should be a second option, for most guilds, to gaining extra GR if you can't be bothered to sit down with a quill. Or donating a stack of cash. Etc, etc. Multiple paths.

The other interesting thing that came up in this thread is the idea of outguilding. In the other IRE games it's become relatively minor to outguild someone without class. In Lusternia that's not quite the case. If you choose an archetype that's dissimilar to your old one, after being outguilded, you'll likely lose a fair bit of lessons. And, as mentioned, the guilds and cities are linked, so if you get chucked out of city you lose access to your power and thus, most of your best skills. Not to mention the fact that there are currently only 3 cities. If you get chucked out of one, not only are the others going to look on you shiftily, but even then you've only got 2 more strikes. Granted, that ought to be enough, but people pay money for this.

I guess it's a different mindset. The Creators of Lusternia basically say, "If you don't want to play nice with at least one city and probably the guild as well, you're going to lose". Unless you have an avenue of RP available to shift to another city with a similar guild you're going to lose 25% of your lessons for forgetting, and then half of that for transferring. Ouch.

Bottom line: don't be a jerk.

See? At least 500 words, easy