So I get on Achaea after about 3 ingame years of being gone. I had been eager to leave the game because the Occultists had me in novice probation limbo for two in game years after I completed my recc's (after transfering from the Arcanists at about level 55).

(Chaotes) You say: "I come back from a short hibernation and am all excited to see my 500 lessons...then I remember why they're unspent."

And...no response (people had been talking before I said that and 3 of the guild higher ups were on. I'm glad they all care about their novices so much.)

I'm sticking with Lusternia thank you very much.

Sounds about just as exciting as my Imperian guild's channel:



That's most people I've seen on in the past 3-4 times I've logged on.

And of course I'm not off probation (I'm 27 years old and in the 60s for levels) because the requrements involve tons of essays and papers and rituals which I have no desire to write.

Heh, I remember someone saying that, I just can't remember who. Can't say I blame you really for feeling that way. I know there's some people that have made like endless alts trying to get into the Occultists and just keep ending up in the same spot.

Too bad I'm not still an Occultist there or I would help you all *grin* Yeah! I don't know what the hell happened to the Occultists. Since Shakti left that place went into a downward spiral and I loved them when they were good. It's about the same on Imperian....just not as drastic....I have been waiting for an interview there since Sunday :-P

I waited several RL months for an interview with the occultists, and when I finally got the opportunity to have a practice interview, the person doing the interview just made me feel like an idiot for not having all these conspiracy theories concerning the mythos and such.

After having my intelligence insulted and realizing that everyone who was a karmic scholar when I became one are still in the same spot (ok, not all of 'em... Some of them had friends up there in the occultist elite and some of them just gave up), and after also realizing that every secretary would do their best to fail my chaos theory unless it was as thorough as a college essay...

Heedless to say I bit the bullet and just left... Even though when you leave they won't consider letting you back in, and if you fail the interview once they won't consider letting you back in, as they will have outguilded you if you accidentally spit a little while explaining why Chaos is what you think it is despite the numerous amount of facts that state that chaos is pretty much whatever and so it'd be pointless just to undermine someone else's theory because in actuality the theory of chaos encompasses all of them... I understand Occultists are supposed to be scholars and stuff but jeebus crusty people want to play the freakin' game...

Holy crap I'm bickering about how strenuous the Occultists are. Forgive me for complaining as I completely forgot what I was talking about...

You forgot one scenario - if you were a 18 year old female into mudsex, my snake followed quite a few of the Occultist secretaries after their chaos theory "interviews". I might even still have a few of the logs around for it

o_O

More like 'if you were into mudsex'. If I knew about that I would report it to the gods, heh. Talk about corruption...

Hmm.. the most i ever got offered was to have a headache named after me.

The Occultists weren't -that- hard to get into. And once you were in, it was well worth any Chaos Theory two paragraph essay.

What really got to me was the abundance of

"Lol owned." people in the senior (non-probation) occultists. How they manage to pass an interview of the likes I've seen, I have no idea.

well i can safely say that the geomancers are already my worst pick for guild reqs... already have to write a dozen essay or so for it. Quite frankly i play MUD's as a relaxation for fun, not as a second school/work. Requirements of level/skills are fine, a short piece of writing is alright like 'why do i want to be such and such' but 'exlain the relevance of the earth element in todays society and make up some other bullsh*t about how we can gain knowledge from the ducks that live udnerground in a floating castle' is just too much, especially when its in 'no less than 500 words'. Scr*w that i say.

If I ever have to write an essay, I'm out of the guild. Simple.

And thus is why you can take your skills and leave the moment you're out of novicehood. If they want requirements, they can pile as much on the plate as they want, but people don't absolutely need the guild for much of anything after that except for prestige, community, and a more clear voice in their city. (It's a little give and take, but, hey, at least there are more options than you HAVE to do whatever past play the game for so and so long to get your skills.)

And a very, very good decision on the part of the Lusternian Divine that was. Dyamn I hated essays. I finish writing up an English essay or whatever, then I go off to do - what? Oh, an essay on why I need to not overharvest and what nature is and blah blah blah. Grah. Hurray Lusternia.

I love how Lusternia guilds don't hold all the power like in Achaea. Especially the classes like Shaman...where the Shaman guild was your only choice for that skillset and roleplay.

Well, Nihilists have essays now, but I've only seen Silvanus's that is as vague and potentially frustruating as the Occultist ones, though I probably missed some. I'm not going through Silvanus for GR's, that's for certain.

Out of curiosity, what are You All going to do when guilds and cities (or just cities really, the separation is less distict here then in other IRE games) start making laws and agreements that either force citizens to be guildmembers or at least citizens of an archtype in the city to join the guild, with refusal resulting in revocation of citizenship? Laws like this are by no means unprecedented in IRE games.

Especially given the representation of guild leadership in city government, if they decide they don't want people 'getting around' guild requirements, why would they not exert their control over citizenship?

I'm not saying I think you should or shouldn't do X, I'm just saying, I would put money on this happening somewhere, and I'm curious whether You All intend to step in or let this happy change in guild structure be de facto overruled by player law.

(please note, I have no desire or intent to ever leave my guild, both IC and OOC I am happy with my place)

/edit- The point was, I guess, while they don't absolutely need the guild, they DO absolutely need the city/commune...and the distinction of the two has been in many ways removed. Both changes apart from one another look great, but in concert, it seems like they are somewhat at odds.

What on -earth- (no pun intended!) are you talking about?

I'm sorry a short essay describing an area and a little written ditty on a village equates to a 500 word thesis on why chickens cross the road. I feel more comfortable asking someone to take 5 minutes of their life to write a little paragraph which is ridiculously simple to accomplish than to spend at least an hour bashing things to get a level req. I've had my fair share of writing essays and I share the pain of writing them, which is why they're so simple it's laughable.

It's my opinion that writing a little (I mean the least you have to write is 2-3 sentences) description of an area and then writing what you learned through sparring about herbs or whatever you want is not so taxing. I don't mean to lash out, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I don't know what the heck you are talking about with this 500 word profesionally written essay nonsense, and it's unfair to represent it like that.

With that said, I was really into joining the Noctusari in Imperian until I graduated novicehood and was given insane requirements to accomplish in a certain path. I have to say I stopped playing pretty fast.

I think the geomancers will quite quickly find they have no members if they continue to ask for written requirements (given that no other guild does presently, to my knowledge).

The first person who suggests that in Magnagora Olan will get my blades in their gut. It is that simple.