Just curious, and thought I'd throw up a thread about it.

Do you guys think that the playerbase will grow to rival Achaea and the other IRE muds? I mean, I go into Achaea and the QW is easily 3-4x as long there. Do you think we'll be able to recruit the needed numbers to allow the game to expand? (since, oddly enough, its going to take the emergence of Gaudiguch and Hallifax to help allow the game to grow even more.. since alot of people want those factions)

Do you think the conflict in Lusternia is going to keep it small? (though, I've noticed the ammount of such lowering slightly)

Do you think the conflict in Lusternia will draw more players? (I mean.. Achaea has grown 100% stagnant when it comes to real conflict)

Its hard for me to say. I want to play Lusternia because of the conflict... but I'm drawn towards Achaea because of the massive ammount of people.... The system for Lusternia is overall better, I think, and yes, I know its still a young game, but, if you look at Achaea the rate of novices joining up has sunk dramatically (and that really has nothing to do with the lack of conflict, since they don't know)... does that mean that Lusternia is coming about during a depression in the mudding community? Think there might be a need to worry?

I don't know. Aetolia and Imperian never came to be the size of Achaea. In fact, Aetolia, Imperian, and Lusternia seem to have about the same active playerbase (Imperian having the least right now), with Achaea having about 2.5x as much.

It may very well be a "dead" time for novices to MUDs. 95% of Lusternian players are probably IRE veterans, the rest being experienced MUDders who saw us on TMS. Still, it's enough to fuel a community.

I don't really feel a want to have 300 people on at a time. 100-200 is perfect for me, personally.

Quality speaks for itself. We'll become big.

I think it's pretty much a given that Lusternia is going to become IRE's second largest MUD. I do not think it will overcome Achaea, simply because Achaea has just about zero standards. If the standards that people applied to RP in Achaea during its first three years of existence were maintained throughout, I don't think the population there would be nearly as large as it is. But Lusternia is done well enough that (I hope) people will be able to maintain a strong RP stance while retaining a large playerbase. It's a difficult thing to do in the long term, but Estarra has a track record of doing things right, and I don't think anyone could besmirch the efforts of the entire staff and all the builders in keeping things exciting for everyone, at least up to this point. But the future will speak for itself.

I agree Lusternia is a damn good game, and quality does speak for itself. I hope, like Rhysus, that the game standards are kept high enough that those who have ruined achaea don't find themselves at home here...I hope it DOESN'T get as big as Achaea..but continues to be much, much better.

Well said and quality is a vast understatement as compared to other IREs.

While I'd be fine with 100-200 people, the problem is that, with 100-200 people, we won't get the 2 new cities (who cares about Ackleberry, honestly... Serenwilde can handle the Forestrals, but Fire and Wind would be nice to have) so, its sort of a tough situation.

Size is not always important. For example, a game with teeny-boppers and junior high nitwits that want a hyped-up chat room is not likely to attract heavy spenders or people old enough to actually have a job to pay for a game. Indeed, it may drive away the serious player who wants high quality. Thus quality players (and in turn, quality customers) can, under the right circumstances, provide a superior game environment for the discerning player that is also more profitable for the owners of the game while having a smaller population.

Text-based MUDs tend to have a smaller market, compared to their graphical counterparts, so the opportunity for expansion is already limited.

Furthermore, IRE games tend to compete with themselves for a slice of the pie. As we all know, many Lusternians were previously (or still are) players of other IRE games, so it's fair to say that Lusternia's success may have a negative impact on the other IRE games in some way.

I read on the forum of topmudsites that Matt Mihaly was toying about the idea of promoting the whole genre of text-based muds (not just IRE games) to increase awareness.

What do you guys think?

I've hardly played achaea since lusternia went open beta and I'm high in guild and order there...now I feel guilty! But two muds at once, just a bit much for me.

I agree, Roark, but, a lower playerbase means that we people who want places like Hallifax and Gaudiguch will never see it unless the playerbase climbs.

I think a fair few people may have been repulsed by the fact that they could only choose Celest, Magnagora or the Serenwilde... In Achaean terms, be Churchies, Mhaldorians or forestals (it is more complex than that obviously, but first impressions count). I think when Gaudiguch and Hallifax open up, allowing for a wider range of ideologies and stuff, more people may be attracted.

Yeah, that's part of my worry too.. i mean.. I really want to play in the Hallifax realm of knowledge and logic and such, but no city really invites that. You get looked at funny in Celest if you dare advocate temporary loss for a greater victory..

And while I could go the way of Visaeris and the Crow, I'd be stuck being fairly alone for a long period of time. And while I could even join the Crow (another group that piqued my interest) I think Visaeris has taken it in a direction that called up a LOT of opposition and is going to get it smushed rather effectively.

But, who knows.

I think one of the determining factors in enjoying the game is knowing the histories. Just reading through the History of the Holy Ceslestine Empire would open up so much for people to enjoy the way the game is run, and what each faction so far really represents.

Of course you don't have to know the histories to like the game rigth away. But I know that following the history updates on the MSN site really helped me to fall in love with the game so much when I finally got to play.

I think the game is really good overall though, and just needs a little time to bud for others to see. I think that part of the current lower numbers trend, is because it's all chaotic. Peopel have been turned off by everything being in constant turmoil, and having the balances of the game not quite right. Think of the first couple days of the game. I can't think of a better description for things other than utter chaos.

I also think that given some time, some of those peoepl will come back to check on the game, having left just to give it all time to settled down. Once the balances are worked out, the conflict is settled down and focused more, and it's not just all chaos(which has improved greatly), then more people will start joining in to play.

I know it's often said, but remeber, the game is still very young. We're just barely exiting open beta. Be patient. You can't expect perfection out fo a game upon realise (unless it's a game comming from Blizzard ). The game is still figureing out who it is, and how it works. Let it do so.

You noticed that too? I thought I was the only one. "Perhaps it would be better for the Light as a whole if we didn't alienate Serenwilde..." "Silence, you heretic fool! On with the faenapping!"

A lot of problems in Celest would be solved if more Celestians would just read their bloody history.

There is a lot to be said about text based virtual worlds in general over graphical ones at this point in history. I actually argue it in my virtual enviroments class often.

I think it could benefit all muds if it was less subcultured.

Oh, people would still have problems. It's just that some people want to learn from their mistakes, while others are hellbent on "spreading the Light" no matter what that takes. Good samaritans (or however you spell it) vs. zealots...

Well considering Achaea has been growing since 1996 and Lusternia only recently started up. I'd say the population of players already rivals Achaea in its earlier years with all due respects. Iron Realms wasn't really the official title of the company until two or so years ago. It used to be Achaea LLC strictly. I think with all the advertising and the popularity of IRE games Lusternia will benefit from all of these things.

I doubt anymore organizations will emerge before Lusternia has over 250 people on at all times. But 100+ people isn't bad for starting up not even out of open beta.

If people are to stay there needs to be less conflict. There are four types of players. Combatants, Explorers and Questors, Socialites, and Merchants. Some of these roles are left unfulfilled due to the imbalance of the economy and I know it is depressing for Celest with all the deaths we have had prior. People are being put into situations they don't want to be in because there is a lack of people filling their personal goals and gamer types. Truth be told people leave when it becomes too stressful.

There aren't any good samaritans in Celest, there's only pacifists and zealots and the only ones actually helping people are the zealots. I've yet to see a single "good deed" from one of the pacifists, all they do is whine and nag over CT, saying how bad and "ungood" the zealots are, but never raising a finger for anything at all themselves.