Silvanus2004-11-11 17:38:34
QUOTE (Daevos @ Nov 11 2004, 11:35 AM)
Crucify:
I went back and gave this skill a more thorough look, and discovered that it was stronger than I had thought at first glance. Since I hadnt been aware of the not insignificant damage, that it delivered, or the fact that it was like impale in that you need to have balance to writhe free from it. But the testing also confirmed my earlier opinion that it is too easy to get out of. It only took about one second for the person I tested it on to writhe free, when they had balance, and a little longer when they writhed after they recovered balance from kick. Overall though, I just think that Crucify needs a slightly slower writhe time, and should act like slickness, in that you shouldnt be able to apply salves while you are crucified.
I went back and gave this skill a more thorough look, and discovered that it was stronger than I had thought at first glance. Since I hadnt been aware of the not insignificant damage, that it delivered, or the fact that it was like impale in that you need to have balance to writhe free from it. But the testing also confirmed my earlier opinion that it is too easy to get out of. It only took about one second for the person I tested it on to writhe free, when they had balance, and a little longer when they writhed after they recovered balance from kick. Overall though, I just think that Crucify needs a slightly slower writhe time, and should act like slickness, in that you shouldnt be able to apply salves while you are crucified.
The idea a Nihilist gave me (I forgot his name..) that iff you have all 4 limbs broken and are crucified, it is permanent.
Estarra2004-11-11 18:12:35
I'm not going to comment on the merits of this thread, but I will say that these are exactly the types of comments we are looking for in the Envoy Reports. I strongly suggest you get with your Guild Envoy to include your concerns in his or her report. We are not as a rule going to be looking to forums to make skill tweaks but mostly rely on Envoy Repots (so you see how important Envoys are to your guild).
Also, there is no reason that Envoys can't submit their reports early--indeed, your guild may get tweaked sooner if we do receive an early report. It should be emphasized that it is important that your guild has an extremely competent and reliable Guild Envoy. If your Guild Envoy does not submit a report, your guild will be passed over when we do skill tweaks. Eventually, we will dismiss an incompetent Guild Envoy but it is in your guild's best interest to make sure that the right person is in place before such an unfortunate event comes to pass.
Also, there is no reason that Envoys can't submit their reports early--indeed, your guild may get tweaked sooner if we do receive an early report. It should be emphasized that it is important that your guild has an extremely competent and reliable Guild Envoy. If your Guild Envoy does not submit a report, your guild will be passed over when we do skill tweaks. Eventually, we will dismiss an incompetent Guild Envoy but it is in your guild's best interest to make sure that the right person is in place before such an unfortunate event comes to pass.
Shamarah2004-11-11 23:29:49
QUOTE (roark @ Nov 11 2004, 12:28 PM)
It also lasts more than 5 seconds. It's random. It can float araound several rooms before popping sometimes.
Really? Hmm, I guess I should have tested it a bit more then.
Daganev2004-11-12 08:19:58
Can an envoy send more than one a report per report season?
saraxus2004-11-12 15:00:46
Aquamancers
Aquamancers has lotsa nice skills, but they have a LOAD which are litteraly useless and take lots of power.
Runes.
Runes is an overall good skillset, can give afflictions with illusions, can throw 2 runes at once and can do it ranged. The only down side with this skillset is that you have to attach a sling to your staff to make the runes ranged, and then the staff decay in 3 months, killing the sling with it. Also, inking runes takes alot of time, if we ever start with real duels which last more than 30 seconds, you'll probably be able to spend 20+ runes in one fight. Inscribing 1 rune takes 10 seconds as a merian.
Illusions.
In illusions we have reflection, invisibility, phantom, wounds, statue, nature illusion, reality, manse which can be used in combat.
All are quite nice. The downside is that reality takes 8 power and works like a room reality that hits everyone, why would you use 8 power for this when you can do phantom and throw runes insted. It will hit your allies aswell. If you are fighting multiple enemies, they can just leave the room or you'll be dead before you regain equilibrium (aquamancers are not very tanky).
It can be very nice if you have a nice demesne set up, but I'll get back to why that's not often done later.
Manse is a good way for escape, but who has 10 power left in the middle of a fight? Manse creates an illusionary mansion which you can enter (1 room I hear), and those inside when it is dispelled will be tossed somewhere on the astral plane.
Aquamancy.
Seems like every power skill we got is bugged...
Liquidform and bubble could seem nice, both take 8 power though and they last for a whole 1 second. Both which are "stay alive" skills.
Maelstorm, our trans skill which is supposed to do heavy dmg, does 0 dmg and takes all your mana and 10 power + breaks your staff which also takes 10 power.
Staff is real nice, gets a nice defense shield, can boost health,mana,bromide a little, can discover invisible people and good ranged dmg. But it takes 10 power to summon and decayes every 3 months.
Icewall, Firewall, Freeze ground, freeze, ignite are all good.
Demesne is kinda dumb, half the skills affect your allies as much as your enemies, summon 3p, travel 3p (AB aquamancy summon/travel does not mention it needs power), sweetfount 3p takes power. Jellies (stun), Icefloe (freeze) is nice, but is also the only offensive skills that don't hit allies. Currents, whirlpool, tsunami and all that would be very good if they did not affect allies aswell as enemies. Setting up a complete demesne also takes a huge amount of time, unless you use flashflood 7p, which sets up all demesne abilities but sweetfount. (but this costs power again and it also set up our stuff that affect allies).
So, aquamancers die fast, do much dmg (ranged), can cast afflictions with illusions (afflicts can be ranged). And to use all our skills in the different skillsets, we need HUGE amounts of power.
I think our demesne should be fixed and power costs on most of our skills should be reduced.
Roark2004-11-12 15:58:29
Looks like I was wrong about bubble. It's random 4 to 12 seconds.
Scryth2004-11-12 17:15:16
QUOTE (Silvanus @ Nov 11 2004, 08:38 PM)
The idea a Nihilist gave me (I forgot his name..) that iff you have all 4 limbs broken and are crucified, it is permanent.
It was me.
So basically like vivisect, but not kill outright permenently breaking limbs instead (maybe impaling too) and making sacrifice possible. It could be used as role device, like leaving victim to die on the cross, or mocking them, or doing some ritual before sacrificing. "Pitiful Thorgal2004-11-12 19:01:38
Wonderfully sadistic, it'd be a little like an occultist's enlightenment, and a lot more feasable in combat than how it works now, but still tricky enough to not be overpowered.
Unknown2004-11-12 19:26:19
if i may aska question: if a person is killed by crucifixion, do they stay crucified as a corpse, in the manner, if someone beheaded and piked your head. I think it would be pretty sweet to see the corpses of our enemies crucified outside of the gates of magnagora. which gives me an idea, we hould be able to crufiy a corpse with some iron and wood comms, and display the corps somewhere for up to a year.
Roark2004-11-12 19:35:15
QUOTE (Donnar @ Nov 12 2004, 03:26 PM)
if i may aska question: if a person is killed by crucifixion, do they stay crucified as a corpse, in the manner, if someone beheaded and piked your head. I think it would be pretty sweet to see the corpses of our enemies crucified outside of the gates of magnagora. which gives me an idea, we hould be able to crufiy a corpse with some iron and wood comms, and display the corps somewhere for up to a year.
I believe the body does stick around.
Silvanus2004-11-12 20:06:38
QUOTE (roark @ Nov 12 2004, 01:35 PM)
I believe the body does stick around.
No it does not, I do believe I had killed someone by crucification on the Shallach Bridge, and it did not stick around.
Scryth2004-11-12 20:13:17
QUOTE (roark @ Nov 12 2004, 10:35 PM)
I believe the body does stick around.
Yes, but that's in case of killing somebody with it. And btw, it's the coolest kill leftover I've seen so far. Better than vivisect for sure. As for crucifying corpses with comms, it's a great idea. "A mutilated body of
Scryth2004-11-12 20:14:07
Ah, you mean crucification itself. I was posting about sacrifice.
Daevos2004-11-12 20:38:35
I like the idea of a worldwide message when Sacrifice is performed, and that the corpse should last atleast a year. But I stand by my original opinion, that Crucify should be harder to get out of, and you shouldnt be able to apply salves, since your arms and legs are nailed to a cross.
Daevos2004-11-12 20:46:48
Also think writhes should be separated like that were in Imperian. So that a person can choose which entanglement they want to writhe from first. With commands like WRITHE CRUCIFY.
Desdemona2004-11-13 07:23:38
QUOTE (Richter @ Nov 10 2004, 04:32 PM)
The majority of stag.
Thankfully, Stag will probably be improved. But Staghide still isn't a good replacement for Stagaura
Syntax: Staghide. Covering yourself with warm stag hide, you will protect you against streme cold.
Stagaura provided physical defence. And since back then, when the changes started, Fitness worked the same as staghide but also protected against hot. Now it only protects against hot. Well, at least you don't have to activate Fitness, though it will not be a good replacement for Toughness.
Geb2004-11-15 01:50:57
I've sent up my own assessment of the combat skills available to Aquamancers to my guild's representative to the gods. I did not state anything about the damage ranges because Koan had that underwraps, but I did make statements about the lack of synergy between the skills. Here is what I sent:
Classlead Input:
The Aquamancer is a very limited archetype with only one means of eliminating a target. The skills possessed by the archetype lack the synergy needed to allow an Aquamancer to overcome the defenses of an opponent highly resistant to magic and elemental damage. Damage being the archetype only means of eliminating the target is inadequate considering that the class also lacks any means of stripping a target of its defenses.
In this write up, I will comment on a few of the Archetype’s most prominent spells. I will show why they are lacking and what can possibly be done to correct the problem.
Aquamancy
Tsunami-
Enemies are forced prone if they lack the levitation defense. Easily countered with levitation. An Aquamancer does not have any means of stripping a person of levitation, let alone any other defense. Therefore, an opponent with levitation will remain immune to the effects of this spell the entire fight.
Possible Solution (Perhaps turn tsunami into a periodic balance stealing attack. It will better hinder the attacks of an opponent, while still allowing them to heal. Or, give Aquamancers a means of stripping defenses. Without defense stripping, this spell is really not worth casting against anyone but a new player)
Typhoon-
Painfully forces flyers to the surface of the demesne. It has no effect on people already on the surface. Also, levitation will eliminate the damage taken from this attack. Any fighter worth their salt will have levitation up, so this spell is only good as a means of keeping people from fly in the demesne.
Possible Solution (Allow typhoon to do periodic damage to enemies regardless of their flight status. Make the damage blunt damage, and possibly have the damage increased if the person is frozen. This would give some synergy between icefloe, freeze, and this spell.)
Icefloe-
Passive periodic freeze attack, no damage. This spell is easily countered by sipping fire.
Possible Solution (Refer to Typhoon.)
Continued in next post.
Classlead Input:
The Aquamancer is a very limited archetype with only one means of eliminating a target. The skills possessed by the archetype lack the synergy needed to allow an Aquamancer to overcome the defenses of an opponent highly resistant to magic and elemental damage. Damage being the archetype only means of eliminating the target is inadequate considering that the class also lacks any means of stripping a target of its defenses.
In this write up, I will comment on a few of the Archetype’s most prominent spells. I will show why they are lacking and what can possibly be done to correct the problem.
Aquamancy
Tsunami-
Enemies are forced prone if they lack the levitation defense. Easily countered with levitation. An Aquamancer does not have any means of stripping a person of levitation, let alone any other defense. Therefore, an opponent with levitation will remain immune to the effects of this spell the entire fight.
Possible Solution (Perhaps turn tsunami into a periodic balance stealing attack. It will better hinder the attacks of an opponent, while still allowing them to heal. Or, give Aquamancers a means of stripping defenses. Without defense stripping, this spell is really not worth casting against anyone but a new player)
Typhoon-
Painfully forces flyers to the surface of the demesne. It has no effect on people already on the surface. Also, levitation will eliminate the damage taken from this attack. Any fighter worth their salt will have levitation up, so this spell is only good as a means of keeping people from fly in the demesne.
Possible Solution (Allow typhoon to do periodic damage to enemies regardless of their flight status. Make the damage blunt damage, and possibly have the damage increased if the person is frozen. This would give some synergy between icefloe, freeze, and this spell.)
Icefloe-
Passive periodic freeze attack, no damage. This spell is easily countered by sipping fire.
Possible Solution (Refer to Typhoon.)
Continued in next post.
Geb2004-11-15 01:52:19
Flood-
Allows one to establish a room with water, leading to a possible meld or the use of some of the room/demesne Aquamancy abilities. Problem is that it costs 1 power to cast. The cost itself is a bit prohibitive, considering that power reserves are not naturally regenerated.
Possible Solution (Just make the cost of eliminating taint or another demesne cost 1 power, or actually a bit more. Right now, 1 power is a bargain when it comes to destroying another person’s demesne. I suggest that the cost of using flash flood be raised to at least 5 power, but the cost of using normal flood be set to 0 power.)
Sweetfount-
Heals caster and allies. An excellent spell, but just have a suggestion to boost it a bit for use against enemies. Give it an effect of stripping defenses periodically from enemies. It would then give other Aquamancy skills like Tsunami and Icefloe greater chances to be effective.
Turtle-
Summon a turtle at the cost of 10 power. Does minor damage, and gives waterwalking if it is being ridden. The power cost is completely out of sync. The pet disappears after the caster departs the realms, and the pet offers nothing of great worth in extra combat ability or general utility.
Possible Solution
Runes
Runes supply the user with little in the way of abilities to work towards a decent affliction lock. The rune list is very incomplete, and a bit too heavy on afflictions that cause fear as a secondary component. Runes are expensive to create, and really only seem to be cost effective when put in statues. Unfortunately, statues must be stationary, outside, on a road, or in an urban area. There is no way to actually kill an enemy with runes, unless the slinger is lucky enough to have Othala give the target sunallergy or crotamine.
Possible Solution (Add more afflictions to the list. Anorexia, Relapsing, and Aeon would be decent.)
Sling and Staffsling-
Sling runes at a target in the room with you (sling) or in the adjacent room (staffsling). Slow on balance recover (Over 2 seconds for a Merian). There is no way to even harass a fighter with sling, since the target will have easily recovered from curing the affliction long before the slinger has a chance to sling a new rune.
Possible Solution (Lower the base balance recover on runes to around 1.5 seconds. With a level two balance recovery advantage, the recover will take about 1.05 seconds. Still a bit over herb recover, so in no way overpowered. Also allow the slinger to sling right before or right after casting an illusion. The only way a single rune can possibly be effective is if the illusions can be used to disrupt healing. (Like bites and illusions are used in Achaea.)
(continued in next post.)
Allows one to establish a room with water, leading to a possible meld or the use of some of the room/demesne Aquamancy abilities. Problem is that it costs 1 power to cast. The cost itself is a bit prohibitive, considering that power reserves are not naturally regenerated.
Possible Solution (Just make the cost of eliminating taint or another demesne cost 1 power, or actually a bit more. Right now, 1 power is a bargain when it comes to destroying another person’s demesne. I suggest that the cost of using flash flood be raised to at least 5 power, but the cost of using normal flood be set to 0 power.)
Sweetfount-
Heals caster and allies. An excellent spell, but just have a suggestion to boost it a bit for use against enemies. Give it an effect of stripping defenses periodically from enemies. It would then give other Aquamancy skills like Tsunami and Icefloe greater chances to be effective.
Turtle-
Summon a turtle at the cost of 10 power. Does minor damage, and gives waterwalking if it is being ridden. The power cost is completely out of sync. The pet disappears after the caster departs the realms, and the pet offers nothing of great worth in extra combat ability or general utility.
Possible Solution
Runes
Runes supply the user with little in the way of abilities to work towards a decent affliction lock. The rune list is very incomplete, and a bit too heavy on afflictions that cause fear as a secondary component. Runes are expensive to create, and really only seem to be cost effective when put in statues. Unfortunately, statues must be stationary, outside, on a road, or in an urban area. There is no way to actually kill an enemy with runes, unless the slinger is lucky enough to have Othala give the target sunallergy or crotamine.
Possible Solution (Add more afflictions to the list. Anorexia, Relapsing, and Aeon would be decent.)
Sling and Staffsling-
Sling runes at a target in the room with you (sling) or in the adjacent room (staffsling). Slow on balance recover (Over 2 seconds for a Merian). There is no way to even harass a fighter with sling, since the target will have easily recovered from curing the affliction long before the slinger has a chance to sling a new rune.
Possible Solution (Lower the base balance recover on runes to around 1.5 seconds. With a level two balance recovery advantage, the recover will take about 1.05 seconds. Still a bit over herb recover, so in no way overpowered. Also allow the slinger to sling right before or right after casting an illusion. The only way a single rune can possibly be effective is if the illusions can be used to disrupt healing. (Like bites and illusions are used in Achaea.)
(continued in next post.)
Geb2004-11-15 01:53:21
Othala-
Cost two power and gives a random affliction. If it works like Loki from Achaea, it will normally give stupidity, asthma, sensitivity, fear, sleep, reckless, or ugliness. Using two power with only a chance of giving an affliction not on the normal rune list is not very cost effective.
Possible Solution (Remove the power cost. The monetary cost to create the rune is prohibitive enough. Using the rune in a sling is at best a hit or miss proposition.)
Supersling-
Cost three power and allows user to sling two runes at once. This attack would be more effective if the rune list was not so limited. Right now, there is really no need to use this attack because of the slow recovery speed and the lack of effective rune combos to sling.
Possible Solution (Same as runes overall, increase the range of afflictions runes can give. Allow the marrying of illusions and supersling to allow the slinger to work towards a possible affliction lock.)
Illusions
The Illusion skillset seems to be made with the idea to compliment the rune set. Unfortunately, the set of afflictions that the rune set supplies is pretty incomplete. Illusions are unable to help in the process of moving towards some effective affliction application, because the afflictions needed to accomplish that are not available. Illusions do allow the caster to give mental afflictions, but the afflictions themselves are at best a nuisance to the receiver.
Phantom-
Gives mental afflictions in a manner like hellsight in Achaea, but far more limited. The mental afflictions given seem to center around afflictions that give fear as a secondary affliction. The afflictions are harassment at best, and most of the time it is probably just best to point ones staff at the enemy.
Possible Solution (The solution to this skill would be to increase the effectiveness of the rune skillset. Then afflicting someone with phantoms would increase the healing workload of the afflicted and possibly allow the rune slinger to work towards an effective affliction combination.)
(continued in next post.)
Cost two power and gives a random affliction. If it works like Loki from Achaea, it will normally give stupidity, asthma, sensitivity, fear, sleep, reckless, or ugliness. Using two power with only a chance of giving an affliction not on the normal rune list is not very cost effective.
Possible Solution (Remove the power cost. The monetary cost to create the rune is prohibitive enough. Using the rune in a sling is at best a hit or miss proposition.)
Supersling-
Cost three power and allows user to sling two runes at once. This attack would be more effective if the rune list was not so limited. Right now, there is really no need to use this attack because of the slow recovery speed and the lack of effective rune combos to sling.
Possible Solution (Same as runes overall, increase the range of afflictions runes can give. Allow the marrying of illusions and supersling to allow the slinger to work towards a possible affliction lock.)
Illusions
The Illusion skillset seems to be made with the idea to compliment the rune set. Unfortunately, the set of afflictions that the rune set supplies is pretty incomplete. Illusions are unable to help in the process of moving towards some effective affliction application, because the afflictions needed to accomplish that are not available. Illusions do allow the caster to give mental afflictions, but the afflictions themselves are at best a nuisance to the receiver.
Phantom-
Gives mental afflictions in a manner like hellsight in Achaea, but far more limited. The mental afflictions given seem to center around afflictions that give fear as a secondary affliction. The afflictions are harassment at best, and most of the time it is probably just best to point ones staff at the enemy.
Possible Solution (The solution to this skill would be to increase the effectiveness of the rune skillset. Then afflicting someone with phantoms would increase the healing workload of the afflicted and possibly allow the rune slinger to work towards an effective affliction combination.)
(continued in next post.)
Geb2004-11-15 01:53:55
Reality-
At the cost of eight power, this spell will essentially give the same afflictions phantom does to everyone in the room but the caster. Have the same problems as phantom, with the added problem of hitting allies.
Possible Solution (Have reality work on people on the casters enemy list only. Reality then will be a spell that can be cast when allies and are in the room. The solutions stated for phantoms will work for reality too.)
Summary
Outside of damage, Aquamancers lack any means of defeating a target. Normally, that would not be a problem if the Aquamancer generated a respectable amount of damage. Unfortunately, the damage of the archetype is moderate at best, and limited in scope (Refer to Koan’s report for numbers). The archetype is unable to tailor its damage to the target’s weaknesses, and is unable to strip the target of defenses to create an opening. Against a well prepared target with decent magic and elemental resists, an Aquamancer is at a significant disadvantage. The archetype needs to have a bit more synergy created between the guildskills to allow the archetype to defeat targets with damage or to give the archetype alternative means of defeating targets when damage is not an option.
At the cost of eight power, this spell will essentially give the same afflictions phantom does to everyone in the room but the caster. Have the same problems as phantom, with the added problem of hitting allies.
Possible Solution (Have reality work on people on the casters enemy list only. Reality then will be a spell that can be cast when allies and are in the room. The solutions stated for phantoms will work for reality too.)
Summary
Outside of damage, Aquamancers lack any means of defeating a target. Normally, that would not be a problem if the Aquamancer generated a respectable amount of damage. Unfortunately, the damage of the archetype is moderate at best, and limited in scope (Refer to Koan’s report for numbers). The archetype is unable to tailor its damage to the target’s weaknesses, and is unable to strip the target of defenses to create an opening. Against a well prepared target with decent magic and elemental resists, an Aquamancer is at a significant disadvantage. The archetype needs to have a bit more synergy created between the guildskills to allow the archetype to defeat targets with damage or to give the archetype alternative means of defeating targets when damage is not an option.
