Bah why was necromancy downgraded? not only is lichdom terribly expensive (10 power) but you lost up to another 10 power if it kicks in?

not only that!! but you have an eq loss and you can't ghost away?

What happens say you die in enemy territory or even while in group combat in neutral territory, all your friends die and pray and you come back as a lich, with no grace, no power and eq loss? and no defences? it also takes over 10 seconds to transform back into a lich, so they just wait till you come back and kill you AGAIN and its so much easier cause you're at an eq loss...AND you have no power AND no defences.

As a Ur'guard, Necromancy is already pretty useless...raisedead sucks, sacrifice and crucify are equally as worthless combined with knighthood unability to target things or break effectivley, so the only really usefull skill now is ghost and omen. Why even bother transing it?

I know we were kicking celest a bit hard, but really, upgrade them, or don't downgrade us a much, but I feel like it is now a waste to trans necromancy.

Ideas to improve so that this isn't ENTIRLEY a rant:

1. take it down to 5 power plus eq loss, so at least we can ghost if eveyone lese bails and we are liching we dont get killed agagin straight away

2. make lichdom instant, so at least we have half a chance to get away to the next room and redef (read: give us a chance_

3. Add some other cool skill to necromancy (suggestions?) make sacrafice easier to pull off, or make targetting and limb breaking actually work

4. make lichdom free to put up, but have it drain all your power when it goes off!

5. lichdom instant with a prismatic barrier? so you just can't keep getting beaten on

Lichdom is like an affliction now, wher eit is just a hassle and doesn't help us.

4 of those 5 skills are now useless, so why should you even learn up to Fable. Not only is sacrifice near impossible, crucify doesn't even leave a cool corpse (it'd be sweet if it did). Raisedead takes 10 power for something weak, which you can't control, move around, or anything. Crucify takes 8 power, while sacrifice takes 3 power, you have to wait 6 seconds for eq recovery from it, and then another 4 seconds afterwards to regain 1 power to sacrifice them. They have 10 seconds to writhe and/or apply mending/restore.

1. The point is that if you put up Lich, you're supposed to expect that the risk is there that you may be left to die. It's intended to present the possibility that you may get killed again straight away. If you don't want that risk, don't put it up.

2. You have a chance. In fact, you have a choice. Don't put it up if you don't want the risk. And providing people are there to protect you, you still have a chance to get away even if you're stuck there doing nothing for a bit.

3. The point of downgrading an ability isn't so that there can be an excuse to put in a new one. It's just not plausible, nor is it a good trend to get into.

4. If you want to do this, go for it, but I don't think people with huge reserves are going to be particularly amicable to the idea.

5. That's just dumb. It takes away the point of the downgrade to begin with.

bah.....your in celest anyway, of course your for it. And even though i'm in maganorga, i honestly think you guys in celest need serious revamping and upgrading. all kidding aside, seriously you do. You guys need your skills like....upgraded a bunch overe there in celest. Which, in my opinion, should be done with serenwilde to keep everything fair, so all classess are of equal power with one another.

Thats what im saying rhysus...

Makes the skill kinda useless, as a TRANS skill.

and you misunderstood point no 4. I meant that its free to put up, but drains your power (not resevres, sheesh) to 0

how about coming up with another solution, how would YOU like it if your top 4 skills were just made redundant??

usually if your combat group gets decimated (or you aare one of the last few to die) there is not gonna be anyone around.

personally i dont like dying twice to the same scumbag, dunno bout you mate.

better off transing arts and siting around throwing tinderboxes at them.

As the leaders of Magnagora had already discussed this from an OOC point of view, this has happened in every IRE mud, and its about to go down the same path. One side is weaker then the other, not because of the skillsets, but because of user error. You guys just need to relax a bit and level up a bit more, you can't base anything when we have 5 people that are over level 60 fighting 9 people that are under level 40.

oooo, did i make a point, silv?

If Lichdom isn't supposed to help you escape death, what it is supposed to do? Turn you into undead? Yeah, such a nice perk for Transcendent skill, the only skill costing up to 20 power.

If the best usage of skill is not to use it, why bother coding it in anyway?

That would explain what happened to me. I had lich up, I was fighting some steel goats. I died. then died again. Now if I want to be a lich, I have to die, but if I die naturally, I'm just going to die again because I will be powerless.

I'm confused about this downgrade though.. when did it happen?


Edit: Lichdom allreayd has a built in negetive side to it -2 str and -2 int during daytime, leaving my tae'dae with 7 int and 17 str. then 11 int and 21 str at night.

Carrion is usefull though

Murphy, I don't use any of the top 4 skills in ANY of my guild skills, so I'm not entirely sympathetic. *g* And it's not because I don't know how to use them well. There's just not a lot of point to using them.

And as for your query as to my opinion on Lichdom? If you want it to be a tad bit better, make it so that you come up Putrefaction intact and have something akin to the Kaido ability of Numbness take effect. So you've got some protection right off the bat, plus unless there are a heck of a lot of people pounding on you (In which case it's understandable that you're going to die) you've got more than a fighting chance of surviving at least long enough to bolt out of there.

I'm wondering if it just shouldn't make you have to die to activate it. Like activiating it itself makes you die, so its a state of being instead of a vitae like skill.

Using Achaea's soulcage as the benchmark, lichdom was deemed much more powerful. (I sometime like to compare things to Achaea since we are so new and thus have many more unknowns.) People who soulcage in Achaean PK frequently don't survive, while lich's ability to flee as a soul makes it vastly easier to get into ghost and nearly never die. Thus this requires fast running away while still in soul form to get an escape. If you can do so, you're in better shape than if you had soulcage.

FYI, I upgraded crucifiction the night before this lichdom change so that you can't apply herbs since your arms are nailed down. Doesn't really make physical sense to be able to do so. (I often do not announce such changes when they are relatively small.)

When I suggested this change, I was thinking in terms of how does it compare to other realms. If everyone on the other side was complaining about lich but it was arguably on par or less than on par with soulcage or transmogrification then I would have seen no reason to change anything. Also, I forgot to mention in the last post, additionally on par with the trans skills in similar guilds here besides similar skills in Achaea. Trueheal seemed less useful since it does not trigger automatically and would be easy to cast it too soon when it is of little use, losing power, or casting it too late, when you're already dead. That was another factor in it.

Well lichdom is a lot more useful than soulcage in raids for sure, often soulcage doesn't do more than give you exactly two seconds respite, then you die again, even if you got jumped and cage, they'd just put you to sleep and you'd die again anyway, lichdom is -way- better than soulcage or transmogrification. Trans sacraments seems more something to use if you're losing the upper hand in a duel and need to fix up fast.

Well, how useful is lichdom now, though? Considering it's a trans skill, compare 'par' with other trans and high up skills, all it does it gives us +2 str and +2 intel at night, cool, but then it screws us in day time with -2/-2.. Plus, without the soul cage type effect, you have to basicly have someone kill you while you're in your city and not just die to enemies or denizens or anything.. So essentially 20 power for +2 +2 str and intel during night and -2 -2 at day, am I missing something?

Sure, let's compare other trans skills, the effect of each in value of what I heard other people saying about it, with useless I don't mean it's a bad skill, but it means they're useless on their own, without being used in some tactic or in combination with other stuff:

aquamancy: maelstrom (doesn't work)
athletics: puissance (useless)
blademaster: haymaker (useless)
bonecrusher: pulp (useless)
celestialism: absolve (near useless without contemplation)
druidry: fury (see aquamancy)
geomancy: pollute (see aquamancy)
healing: bedevil (huge powercost and useless against any decent curer)
hexes: allhex (huge powercost, just temporarily slows decent curers)
illusions: reality (nice for parties)
moon and stag: drawdown and antler thing (nothing devastating)

NECROMANCY: lichdom (stops you from losing experience upon death, gives you a chance to escape any situation and grants you +4 stat points half of your life)

nihilism: wrack (see celestialism)
runes: supersling (two unhidden afflictions at a high powercost)
sacraments: trueheal (nice for duels)
tarot: world (tarot-users say it's useless)
wicca: toadcurse (see celestialism)

Now, comparing all those, I think it's safe to say Lichdom is by far one of the best trans skills, even in its current state. I don't believe the trans skill of a skillset is meant to be a hugely powerful force that makes it easy to destroy whatever, and if it -is- supposed to be, that goal isn't reached in most of the skillsets. My opinion of trans skills in IRE games is that they're just an asset to give more strategical options in combat, more than just give you an overpowered massacre tool.

You're saying lichdom is good after the change? You can't get away with it now, it costs huge power, 20 power, I don't know what your huge and high power were in number, but ours is 20 now. You say +4 half your life, what about -4 half your life, that's 8 points worth of change. Don't give only the good of a skill when trying to say what it is, the good comes with the bad. I don't have the skill so I can't say, all I've done is read help files and other such stuff about it, and the announce post, but people have said the power loss and equilibrium loss make it unable to let you get away, so basicly all it does now is makes you turn into a lich. And I guess if you die again you lose it anyway, so the only time to use it is when your friend is going to kill you so you can become a lich, and then if you die again, go waste another 20 power, Right?

I'm not saying it's an awesome skill, I'm saying it's a lot better than most trans skills.

Ok, I also mentioned other 'high up skills' so.. of our top 5 skills, 1 seems to be highly used. That's it. How about other skillsets top 5 skills in skillrank?