Niara2004-11-15 09:34:10
Every city/commune has serious problems with comms. I am sure it was intended in a way but hopefully not as it is right now. A solution might be to increase comm-production as it was done in Imperian.
Daganev2004-11-15 09:39:33
Looking at the commodity shops, I think there might actually be a problem with the way they work. Shops have 255 gems still selling at over 300 gold. Prices go up fast but they don't seem to ever go down.
Not to mention you had that store that bought wood at 75 gold when wood was selling for 30, and then it wasn't selling it back to people. Thanks to Olan they appeared to have fixed that.
Not to mention you had that store that bought wood at 75 gold when wood was selling for 30, and then it wasn't selling it back to people. Thanks to Olan they appeared to have fixed that.
Qaletaqa2004-11-15 10:06:44
Quite honestly Bau buying out everyone elses commodities only draws them to yours in the first place. Secondly, Serenwilde is driving up the cost of living for the majority of players everywhere. If I could buy from Magnagora's villages I would but unlike most Seren they aren't enemied and thus buying commodities becomes limited. And yes if you wish to protect your commodities I indeed suggest a door.
Without grain a lot of chefs can't cook so it is probably why people come to your shop to begin with. Who wants to walk there anyways?
Without grain a lot of chefs can't cook so it is probably why people come to your shop to begin with. Who wants to walk there anyways?
Trae2004-11-15 11:09:55
QUOTE (Sidharta @ Nov 15 2004, 02:17 AM)
If you're actually just trying to provide comms for Serenwilde's... living-there-people, you could always have spoken to one of your Divine about a door or some way to protect comms from non-citizens.
QUOTE (Bau @ Nov 15 2004, 02:19 AM)
I -have- spoken to them, they are presently ignoring my requests.
As well they should, since there is a door on it already. Perhaps if you weren't carrying so many comms though -the door- you might notice it? ;-)
Daganev2004-11-15 11:17:47
Is magnagora the only city without a door on its commshop?
Niara2004-11-15 11:20:34
Yes, it seems so, Daganev.
Unknown2004-11-15 11:59:42
QUOTE
Bit tired of being bashed for buying comms out.
Then stop.
QUOTE
And two, the comm shops are more often than not sold out before I get there.
Guess some people ran their hinnies to get there before you!
QUOTE
I don't buy below five commodities
Might as well buy them to nothing, because guess what? After you leave those 5, someone will come buy them rather than pay your prices in Serenwilde.
QUOTE
I resell at 'ridiculous' prices when a number of comms are losing us gold, and others are next to impossible to get hold of.
You do resell at ridiculous prices and Serenwilde is making bank on it. Too bad their citizens can’t function in their trades because of it.
Yes, something does need to be done about the current commodity situation. However, the vicious cycle induced by the poor, mistreated Trade Minister of Serenwilde has only exasperated the problem.
Bau2004-11-15 13:16:51
Sarcasm was the first comment. I am NOT buying them out.
People 'ran their hinnies' there for four hours straight while I had other things to do, eh?
Proprietor: Delport.
Commodity We Buy At Stock We Sell At
Wood 8 gp 15 58 gp
Leather 5 gp 0 24 gp
Coal 3 gp 0 35 gp
Cloth 4 gp 0 48 gp
Gold 22 gp 110 123 gp
Rope 6 gp 69 23 gp
Gems 32 gp 84 325 gp
Marble 16 gp 61 165 gp
Meat 5 gp 5 24 gp
Silk 15 gp 201 150 gp
Milk 3 gp 36 10 gp
Poultry 4 gp 0 17 gp
Fish 4 gp 79 29 gp
Eggs 2 gp 225 25 gp
Proprietor: Southgard.
Commodity We Buy At Stock We Sell At
Leather 5 gp 1 50 gp
Gems 32 gp 10 193 gp
Meat 5 gp 5 50 gp
Silk 15 gp 51 150 gp
Proprietor: Acknor.
Commodity We Buy At Stock We Sell At
Wood 8 gp 5 40 gp
Leather 5 gp 30 52 gp
Meat 5 gp 56 40 gp
Milk 3 gp 225 10 gp
Poultry 4 gp 28 34 gp
Eggs 2 gp 65 8 gp
That -really- leaves -me- room to buy obscene amounts.
Serenwilde is 'making bank' on it because that is my job. Unlike Magnagora, I don't have a Divine breathing down my neck saying, you have to sell below villages, and nobody has told me to try and take gold away from the commune, so I fail to see the problem.
Serenwilde prices and stock:
Steel - 150 - 542
Wood - 75 - 170
Iron - 70 - 969
Leather - not sold at present
Coal - 20 - 369
Platinum - 115 - 250
Cloth - not sold
Gold - 150 - 126
Rope - 30 - 203
Gems - 275 - 168
Silver - 110 - 18
Marble - 50 - 190
Grain - 50 - 69
Meat - 55 - 78
Silk - 60 - 303
Milk - 12 - 308
Poultry - not sold
Fish - 40 - 271
Fruit - 10 - 571
Vegetables - 30 - 269
Eggs - 5 - 300
Those not sold do not yet have enough reserves since last time they were cleaned out and are currently negative under available stock.
-----------------------------
Cheapest village store prices - comm, village, price, and current stock
Steel - Rockholm - 150 - 39
Wood - Acknor - 40 - 5
Iron - Angkrag - 61 - 225
Leather - Delport - 24 - 0
Coal - Angkrag - 14 - 183
Platinum - Angkrag - 104 - 133
Cloth - Stewartsville/Estelbar - 44 - 5/0
Gold - Angkrag - 115 - 15
Rope - Delport - 23 - 69
Gems - Southgard - 193 - 5
Silver - Angkrag - 128 - 5
Marble - Angkrag/Dairuchi - 55 - 225
Grain - Estelbar - 47 - 5
Meat - Delport - 24 - 5
Milk - Estelbar/Acknor/Dairuchi/Stewartsville/Delport - 10 - 10/225/74/175/36
Silk - Angkrag/Dairuchi - 50 - 213/125
Poultry - Delport - 17 - 0
Fish - Delport - 29 - 79
Fruit - Estelbar - 21 - 10
Vegetables - Estelbar - 27 - 5
Eggs - Estelbar/Acknor/Stewartsville - 8 - 175/15/205
Now, sit there and look at those and tell me I am charging ridiculous prices on everything. I am not. A large portion of the gold made goes traight back into buying comms - if I can find any to buy. If you -really- insist on blaming me for it, I will show you the list of comm shops before and after I buy commodities.
People 'ran their hinnies' there for four hours straight while I had other things to do, eh?
Proprietor: Delport.
Commodity We Buy At Stock We Sell At
Wood 8 gp 15 58 gp
Leather 5 gp 0 24 gp
Coal 3 gp 0 35 gp
Cloth 4 gp 0 48 gp
Gold 22 gp 110 123 gp
Rope 6 gp 69 23 gp
Gems 32 gp 84 325 gp
Marble 16 gp 61 165 gp
Meat 5 gp 5 24 gp
Silk 15 gp 201 150 gp
Milk 3 gp 36 10 gp
Poultry 4 gp 0 17 gp
Fish 4 gp 79 29 gp
Eggs 2 gp 225 25 gp
Proprietor: Southgard.
Commodity We Buy At Stock We Sell At
Leather 5 gp 1 50 gp
Gems 32 gp 10 193 gp
Meat 5 gp 5 50 gp
Silk 15 gp 51 150 gp
Proprietor: Acknor.
Commodity We Buy At Stock We Sell At
Wood 8 gp 5 40 gp
Leather 5 gp 30 52 gp
Meat 5 gp 56 40 gp
Milk 3 gp 225 10 gp
Poultry 4 gp 28 34 gp
Eggs 2 gp 65 8 gp
That -really- leaves -me- room to buy obscene amounts.
Serenwilde is 'making bank' on it because that is my job. Unlike Magnagora, I don't have a Divine breathing down my neck saying, you have to sell below villages, and nobody has told me to try and take gold away from the commune, so I fail to see the problem.
Serenwilde prices and stock:
Steel - 150 - 542
Wood - 75 - 170
Iron - 70 - 969
Leather - not sold at present
Coal - 20 - 369
Platinum - 115 - 250
Cloth - not sold
Gold - 150 - 126
Rope - 30 - 203
Gems - 275 - 168
Silver - 110 - 18
Marble - 50 - 190
Grain - 50 - 69
Meat - 55 - 78
Silk - 60 - 303
Milk - 12 - 308
Poultry - not sold
Fish - 40 - 271
Fruit - 10 - 571
Vegetables - 30 - 269
Eggs - 5 - 300
Those not sold do not yet have enough reserves since last time they were cleaned out and are currently negative under available stock.
-----------------------------
Cheapest village store prices - comm, village, price, and current stock
Steel - Rockholm - 150 - 39
Wood - Acknor - 40 - 5
Iron - Angkrag - 61 - 225
Leather - Delport - 24 - 0
Coal - Angkrag - 14 - 183
Platinum - Angkrag - 104 - 133
Cloth - Stewartsville/Estelbar - 44 - 5/0
Gold - Angkrag - 115 - 15
Rope - Delport - 23 - 69
Gems - Southgard - 193 - 5
Silver - Angkrag - 128 - 5
Marble - Angkrag/Dairuchi - 55 - 225
Grain - Estelbar - 47 - 5
Meat - Delport - 24 - 5
Milk - Estelbar/Acknor/Dairuchi/Stewartsville/Delport - 10 - 10/225/74/175/36
Silk - Angkrag/Dairuchi - 50 - 213/125
Poultry - Delport - 17 - 0
Fish - Delport - 29 - 79
Fruit - Estelbar - 21 - 10
Vegetables - Estelbar - 27 - 5
Eggs - Estelbar/Acknor/Stewartsville - 8 - 175/15/205
Now, sit there and look at those and tell me I am charging ridiculous prices on everything. I am not. A large portion of the gold made goes traight back into buying comms - if I can find any to buy. If you -really- insist on blaming me for it, I will show you the list of comm shops before and after I buy commodities.
Bau2004-11-15 13:19:34
So take your insults and your attitude back, please. I am NOT buying them out, I am buying what is left over from the greedy bastards buying from all over the world.
I think you forget, I am a Trademaster who's trade and cartel shop suffer when everyone buys out all the goddamn cloth, leather, rope and wood. Among other things. I can't make clothes? Oh dear, you can all walk around naked, sorry, someone bought out all the cloth the world over again.
Edit: What I find quite amusing is that though I am doing very little in the way of forcing anyone to do anything, (I mean, what are commune/city trade shops for anyway?) even if I quit as I -tried- to do, I would still be used as the scapegoat, just because my commune's shop is not only open to the public, but it has stock in it!
I think you forget, I am a Trademaster who's trade and cartel shop suffer when everyone buys out all the goddamn cloth, leather, rope and wood. Among other things. I can't make clothes? Oh dear, you can all walk around naked, sorry, someone bought out all the cloth the world over again.
Edit: What I find quite amusing is that though I am doing very little in the way of forcing anyone to do anything, (I mean, what are commune/city trade shops for anyway?) even if I quit as I -tried- to do, I would still be used as the scapegoat, just because my commune's shop is not only open to the public, but it has stock in it!
Typhus2004-11-15 17:03:16
Bau, you haven't been a jeweler without a workshop yet. Live with it.
Val2004-11-15 18:56:32
Just something you all seemed to have missed. 5 is the magic number elsewhere, here it is 10. So Bau, you buying down to 5, IS raising all the prices, thank you.
Unknown2004-11-15 19:14:53
EDIT: Attempted to make text diagram. Clearly failled. Attempting prose.
For those of you who want the bottom line without actually going to the bottom:
Lusternia Needs More Comms. (probably herbs too)
In Lusternia, everyone has a trade skill, and there is no reason why not to use them, unlike other IREs, where Trade-Skill-growth was closely checked by a price tag of 100cr. Add in the factor that, there are almost no NPC producers, and everything in the world requires comms, there is bound to be a huge demand for comms.
Frankly, I don't think the current methods of comm production are keeping up.
In addition, as the player base grows, what will happen? It will start by there being more people who want more things. The supply will attempt to increase to meet the aforementioned increase in demand. This requires what else but More Comms. Now, also with the increased number of players, by default comes an increased number of available crafters. Crafters, being crafters, will be trying to create more things, and since everything requires comms, they will use up more comms. So, with a growing playerbase, and the playerbase _will_ grow on a game like this once it has opened, there comm-demand will grow as well.
End result? Even if it is decided right now that we don't need more comms, we are going to need more in the future.
Could someone please fetch that professor guy to take a look at my post and make sure I used proper spelling and grammar and displayed good literary form?
-------------------------------
DISCLAIMER: I apologise if I offended, insulted, hurt, humilated, or caused any negative feelings in anyone during the course of my post, as that was not my intent. Thank you for your time.
For those of you who want the bottom line without actually going to the bottom:
Lusternia Needs More Comms. (probably herbs too)
In Lusternia, everyone has a trade skill, and there is no reason why not to use them, unlike other IREs, where Trade-Skill-growth was closely checked by a price tag of 100cr. Add in the factor that, there are almost no NPC producers, and everything in the world requires comms, there is bound to be a huge demand for comms.
Frankly, I don't think the current methods of comm production are keeping up.
In addition, as the player base grows, what will happen? It will start by there being more people who want more things. The supply will attempt to increase to meet the aforementioned increase in demand. This requires what else but More Comms. Now, also with the increased number of players, by default comes an increased number of available crafters. Crafters, being crafters, will be trying to create more things, and since everything requires comms, they will use up more comms. So, with a growing playerbase, and the playerbase _will_ grow on a game like this once it has opened, there comm-demand will grow as well.
End result? Even if it is decided right now that we don't need more comms, we are going to need more in the future.
Could someone please fetch that professor guy to take a look at my post and make sure I used proper spelling and grammar and displayed good literary form?
-------------------------------
DISCLAIMER: I apologise if I offended, insulted, hurt, humilated, or caused any negative feelings in anyone during the course of my post, as that was not my intent. Thank you for your time.
Olan2004-11-15 20:07:51
I don't necessarily think there is a problem with the number of comms being produced. I think there are two major problems that might look like the problem is comm shortage:
1. We don't have control of things that we should be able to control, like whether comm shops sell to non citizens or charge them extra. We don't currently have a way to keep reasonable costed comms in a city where people won't just buy them and sell them somewhere else for profit. This is really what started this thread, remember.
2. There is an aritificially high demand because the realm is new. We aren't talking about the slow replacement of weapons, armours, robes, vials, jewelry etc. We're talking about hundreds of people with no armour, no robes, no weapons, no jewelry all needing them and wanting them asap. As comms start to dissapear, it tends to bring out the greed in people with resources to grab comms and hold them as well. I think when people are more established and they aren't rushing to get items things will calm down...at least until the first big batch of items gets ready to decay...
Increasing the comm production now, while it might be required for some items if they aren't working as expected, is actually a bad thing...over the long run, it will make comms nearly worthless as they flood the market, which will hurt the cool competition for villages because the comms might not be worth the fight. If things get a chance to settle down and They give us the controls we are asking for, I think the current level of production is fine.
1. We don't have control of things that we should be able to control, like whether comm shops sell to non citizens or charge them extra. We don't currently have a way to keep reasonable costed comms in a city where people won't just buy them and sell them somewhere else for profit. This is really what started this thread, remember.
2. There is an aritificially high demand because the realm is new. We aren't talking about the slow replacement of weapons, armours, robes, vials, jewelry etc. We're talking about hundreds of people with no armour, no robes, no weapons, no jewelry all needing them and wanting them asap. As comms start to dissapear, it tends to bring out the greed in people with resources to grab comms and hold them as well. I think when people are more established and they aren't rushing to get items things will calm down...at least until the first big batch of items gets ready to decay...
Increasing the comm production now, while it might be required for some items if they aren't working as expected, is actually a bad thing...over the long run, it will make comms nearly worthless as they flood the market, which will hurt the cool competition for villages because the comms might not be worth the fight. If things get a chance to settle down and They give us the controls we are asking for, I think the current level of production is fine.
Bau2004-11-15 20:30:35
Was that quote from a Divine mouth, or guessing? Because several things I buy are under 10 anyway, more often than not.
Edit: Quote meaning the number....
Edit: Quote meaning the number....
Unknown2004-11-15 22:59:15
Bau you are doing your job well. You work for the Serenwilde, you are not expected to worry about citizens of cities and villages. The prices at our Comm shop are reasonable and, since I simply can't be bothered hunting around to save 5-20 gold, I am happy to buy there.
Olan2004-11-15 22:59:51
QUOTE (daganev @ Nov 15 2004, 02:39 AM)
Not to mention you had that store that bought wood at 75 gold when wood was selling for 30, and then it wasn't selling it back to people. Thanks to Olan they appeared to have fixed that.
Yeah, Butch had 250 in stock and wasn't selling. But that seems to be worked out after I talked to him. Then I flattered his taste in clothes and stuff since he was so kind.
Was sort of worrying there for a while, especially when Dag sounded like they hadn't tithed any wood either...
Olan2004-11-15 23:01:04
I don't mean to be pushy or demanding, but I'd be interested to hear some Divine response. Is this an acknowledged issue? Is there a pending cure? Or are things working as you intended and we just have to puzzle out how to make it work for us?
Val2004-11-16 12:46:13
That 5 number is what my city has told me, and I've watched a comm shop with 5 gems left restock, and the price go up. So I'm inclined to believe 10 is the number here.
On the note of flooding the market, this new skill for jewelry did that. I think it should be 50% of what it was. Honestly getting gems was not a problem(I kept a stock of well over 100 of each gem, but I bought alot of gem comms). The problem was the price, people didn't like them. Before anyone goes on a rant saying we made huge profit off gems, let me clear that up. About 25% of gems can be resold to forgers, 25% for crafting(currently), the other 50% are useless. So that means I'm really paying 500gp per useful gem, selling for 500-600 making basicly nothing. That's not adding into account each gem has a different chance of getting them, diamonds(which were 2k) were by far the most rare. I would get maybe 1 diamond out of 20-30 raw gems on average. I know for a fact noone else really has those averages as accurate as I do, because well as you all know I was greedy and bought every gem I could and cut well over 5k raw gems. Now with the new skills, things are still the same when it comes to useable and chance to get them, we just get more which should balance it out. What it really did was flood the market with cut gems, ofcourse I have the hammer so I really get massive gems.
For those of you that want to say I brag about transing 5 skills off jewelry alone, yes your right, but cut gems was not how I did it. Crafting was, I was one of the first to trans, and as it's been said demand was high. Volume is how I made that money. Also, as a suggestion to you other crafting types, stop basing your prices on comms alone. My jewelry prices are based off skill level required to make it, and it's power. Thus crowns, which we all know in the hands of a trans enchanter, is a 1k credit artifact there for has a higher profit margin then a stud or a ring. Comms were barely factored into my prices, if we were to price based only on comms like most trades have, some bracelets and necklaces would be cheaper then rings. Feel free to disagree with me, but really sit down and think about it. I'm the largest jeweler, uncontested, I've crafted and cut more then most cartels could boast. I know jewelry and it's requirements to make money. Yes I'm a money grubber, been called that many times(which I take as a complement, Valek) but I know what I'm talking about and am more then willing to aide the other jewelers, or trades in building reasonable, but profitable price lists.
P.S. I know the proffessor will have a heart attack when he reads my post, so someone be ready to rezz him.
On the note of flooding the market, this new skill for jewelry did that. I think it should be 50% of what it was. Honestly getting gems was not a problem(I kept a stock of well over 100 of each gem, but I bought alot of gem comms). The problem was the price, people didn't like them. Before anyone goes on a rant saying we made huge profit off gems, let me clear that up. About 25% of gems can be resold to forgers, 25% for crafting(currently), the other 50% are useless. So that means I'm really paying 500gp per useful gem, selling for 500-600 making basicly nothing. That's not adding into account each gem has a different chance of getting them, diamonds(which were 2k) were by far the most rare. I would get maybe 1 diamond out of 20-30 raw gems on average. I know for a fact noone else really has those averages as accurate as I do, because well as you all know I was greedy and bought every gem I could and cut well over 5k raw gems. Now with the new skills, things are still the same when it comes to useable and chance to get them, we just get more which should balance it out. What it really did was flood the market with cut gems, ofcourse I have the hammer so I really get massive gems.
For those of you that want to say I brag about transing 5 skills off jewelry alone, yes your right, but cut gems was not how I did it. Crafting was, I was one of the first to trans, and as it's been said demand was high. Volume is how I made that money. Also, as a suggestion to you other crafting types, stop basing your prices on comms alone. My jewelry prices are based off skill level required to make it, and it's power. Thus crowns, which we all know in the hands of a trans enchanter, is a 1k credit artifact there for has a higher profit margin then a stud or a ring. Comms were barely factored into my prices, if we were to price based only on comms like most trades have, some bracelets and necklaces would be cheaper then rings. Feel free to disagree with me, but really sit down and think about it. I'm the largest jeweler, uncontested, I've crafted and cut more then most cartels could boast. I know jewelry and it's requirements to make money. Yes I'm a money grubber, been called that many times(which I take as a complement, Valek) but I know what I'm talking about and am more then willing to aide the other jewelers, or trades in building reasonable, but profitable price lists.
P.S. I know the proffessor will have a heart attack when he reads my post, so someone be ready to rezz him.
Typhus2004-11-16 17:40:31
Heh. I agree with Val totally on this. Gems really do have a large impact on the other trades, and even if Val buys them all out, he is still right.
Trae2004-11-16 19:57:48
Olan,
I think the problem isn't just about control it has to be in part production (or perhaps number of comms per item). I can't find enough grain to cook and I spend way too much time looking for comms. Lusterina is begining to remind me of those old space games where all you did was pick up a load of comms from various points (remind, it still is no where as boring as those were). Now consider how many fishcakes are sold though Bob's and what were to happen if those just disapeared?
I don't see the City Comm shops being the -major- suppliers of goods for merchants. So while you may be right on perm items (not sure about that since I know I am still massively under-equipted and figure that by the time I fully equip items will start to decay) we only have people leaving, playing less, and making level 80 to decrease food supply.
I think the problem isn't just about control it has to be in part production (or perhaps number of comms per item). I can't find enough grain to cook and I spend way too much time looking for comms. Lusterina is begining to remind me of those old space games where all you did was pick up a load of comms from various points (remind, it still is no where as boring as those were). Now consider how many fishcakes are sold though Bob's and what were to happen if those just disapeared?
I don't see the City Comm shops being the -major- suppliers of goods for merchants. So while you may be right on perm items (not sure about that since I know I am still massively under-equipted and figure that by the time I fully equip items will start to decay) we only have people leaving, playing less, and making level 80 to decrease food supply.
