Unknown2004-11-16 20:09:46
How about this idea?
We all have tradeskills, and through Arts we can make vials, bottles, tinderboxes, whatever.
What if the gods gave us a Labour (or, Labor) skillset, where we could learn our own farming (for foods), our own tanning (for leather), our own butchering (again, for foods), our own spinning and weaving (for fabrics), etc. We learn to shear sheep, we learn how to milk cows. We learn to dig ore and mine gems, pan for gold, and yes, even fish. There are growing seasons, and harvesting seasons.
The more Labours you do, the more experience in Labours you get. You don't learn it from lessons, you learn it from experience. After so much time spent doing mining, or fishing, or panning, or weaving, or whatever, you gain a new skill in the skillset.
We all have tradeskills, and through Arts we can make vials, bottles, tinderboxes, whatever.
What if the gods gave us a Labour (or, Labor) skillset, where we could learn our own farming (for foods), our own tanning (for leather), our own butchering (again, for foods), our own spinning and weaving (for fabrics), etc. We learn to shear sheep, we learn how to milk cows. We learn to dig ore and mine gems, pan for gold, and yes, even fish. There are growing seasons, and harvesting seasons.
The more Labours you do, the more experience in Labours you get. You don't learn it from lessons, you learn it from experience. After so much time spent doing mining, or fishing, or panning, or weaving, or whatever, you gain a new skill in the skillset.
Daganev2004-11-16 20:39:08
Bau I don't understand why you find some need to buy comms from villages, thus raising thier prices, especially when you have over 30 of everything in stock. If you have items in stock for too long of a time it means the price is too high, or the demand is simply too low.
I'm not sure if everyone is aware of this. but when Villages Tithe to their city... Its fRee! That means if your not being a ninny and running around the world buying commodities that should be there for people who can't get to cities, or are willing to pay extra for those extra resources, that the city is making 100% profit, and all you need to do is maintain the equilibrium.
I'm not sure if everyone is aware of this. but when Villages Tithe to their city... Its fRee! That means if your not being a ninny and running around the world buying commodities that should be there for people who can't get to cities, or are willing to pay extra for those extra resources, that the city is making 100% profit, and all you need to do is maintain the equilibrium.
Olan2004-11-16 20:54:18
Briseis:
I understand your goal, and I don't think the idea at a basic level is a bad one, but I actually like the way it is set up in Lusternia, where we have a personal stake in villages. I just think we need some things like comm shop control altered.
1. Learn by doing is bad bad bad. I can't stand games where swinging swords or hoeing the ground over and over is what you need to do to get good at it. The only think I can think of that works like this in IRE games is(was?) weapon proficiencies, and even those cost lessons. And the practice was a minimal part with a point beyond which it didn't help at all.
2. If people can get hard-to-get comms by just contracting some people to sit and their keyboards and hoe for a while...where's the fun in that? Part of the point of the world comes when you realize there are limited villages that produce something like, say, steel. Two of them are controlled by Celest. When Rockholm and Southgard go up, I have a much more personal stake in getting them for the city, as it directly effects my ability to buy cheap steel. If I could just go pick the wall and not have to worry about dying...you end up decreasing the reason for conflict, in a world that is sort of built on conflict.
Trae:
I can't comment on grain particularly, as I only eat carrion...but I know that for the comms I use for forging, the villages we control as a city matter a great deal to my supply and cost. I think city comm shops in Lusternia serve a much different role them shops in Achaea, for example.
In Achaea, it was rare to see a semi-decent sell price, and buy prices were always above village cost. The shop had NO automatic tithing or income, which meant it basically was a city stockpile for building subdivisions and toteming vast tracts of land. In a pinch, you could pay a fair bit of extra money to get a comm that was bought out or needed ASAP, but no one seriously bought their comms there unless they could help it. The city, with no comm income, couldn't support it as an institution for citizens to use in trade.
In Lusternia, the city shops DO get tithes, basically 'free income' as a result of the cities work influencing villages. The people of the city put a lot of effort in to get those villages. The result shouldn't just be infinite stockpiles for a city that will never get used, but rather, 'paid' back to the citizens in the form of less expensive comms that almost all of us need for our trade skills.
I know the Magnagoran trade ministry, even when Chade was minister, agreed with me here, as did Lord Fain, who ordered the prices changed.
The problem is, there is no way to give a preferential price to citizens through the comm shops as they work now, as far as I know. In a world driven by comms and with the vacuum of preexisting stock and artificial high demand from hundreds of people coming out of the portal of fate at once, there is a lot of market pressure we're seeing now that won't last. I think my point remains, though, that the cities need better control of their city markets to provide citizens with better comm prices then they can get elsewhere without having the same dumb shopkeep selling it all to a non citizen horder for the same cheap price. That is, after all, the benefit of being the city raking in the most tributes, right??
Sorry I'm so long winded, I hate reading posts like mine...hope someone read all the way to the end...
I understand your goal, and I don't think the idea at a basic level is a bad one, but I actually like the way it is set up in Lusternia, where we have a personal stake in villages. I just think we need some things like comm shop control altered.
1. Learn by doing is bad bad bad. I can't stand games where swinging swords or hoeing the ground over and over is what you need to do to get good at it. The only think I can think of that works like this in IRE games is(was?) weapon proficiencies, and even those cost lessons. And the practice was a minimal part with a point beyond which it didn't help at all.
2. If people can get hard-to-get comms by just contracting some people to sit and their keyboards and hoe for a while...where's the fun in that? Part of the point of the world comes when you realize there are limited villages that produce something like, say, steel. Two of them are controlled by Celest. When Rockholm and Southgard go up, I have a much more personal stake in getting them for the city, as it directly effects my ability to buy cheap steel. If I could just go pick the wall and not have to worry about dying...you end up decreasing the reason for conflict, in a world that is sort of built on conflict.
Trae:
I can't comment on grain particularly, as I only eat carrion...but I know that for the comms I use for forging, the villages we control as a city matter a great deal to my supply and cost. I think city comm shops in Lusternia serve a much different role them shops in Achaea, for example.
In Achaea, it was rare to see a semi-decent sell price, and buy prices were always above village cost. The shop had NO automatic tithing or income, which meant it basically was a city stockpile for building subdivisions and toteming vast tracts of land. In a pinch, you could pay a fair bit of extra money to get a comm that was bought out or needed ASAP, but no one seriously bought their comms there unless they could help it. The city, with no comm income, couldn't support it as an institution for citizens to use in trade.
In Lusternia, the city shops DO get tithes, basically 'free income' as a result of the cities work influencing villages. The people of the city put a lot of effort in to get those villages. The result shouldn't just be infinite stockpiles for a city that will never get used, but rather, 'paid' back to the citizens in the form of less expensive comms that almost all of us need for our trade skills.
I know the Magnagoran trade ministry, even when Chade was minister, agreed with me here, as did Lord Fain, who ordered the prices changed.
The problem is, there is no way to give a preferential price to citizens through the comm shops as they work now, as far as I know. In a world driven by comms and with the vacuum of preexisting stock and artificial high demand from hundreds of people coming out of the portal of fate at once, there is a lot of market pressure we're seeing now that won't last. I think my point remains, though, that the cities need better control of their city markets to provide citizens with better comm prices then they can get elsewhere without having the same dumb shopkeep selling it all to a non citizen horder for the same cheap price. That is, after all, the benefit of being the city raking in the most tributes, right??
Sorry I'm so long winded, I hate reading posts like mine...hope someone read all the way to the end...
Bau2004-11-17 06:09:22
QUOTE (daganev @ Nov 17 2004, 07:39 AM)
Bau I don't understand why you find some need to buy comms from villages, thus raising thier prices, especially when you have over 30 of everything in stock. If you have items in stock for too long of a time it means the price is too high, or the demand is simply too low.
I'm not sure if everyone is aware of this. but when Villages Tithe to their city... Its fRee! That means if your not being a ninny and running around the world buying commodities that should be there for people who can't get to cities, or are willing to pay extra for those extra resources, that the city is making 100% profit, and all you need to do is maintain the equilibrium.
I'm not sure if everyone is aware of this. but when Villages Tithe to their city... Its fRee! That means if your not being a ninny and running around the world buying commodities that should be there for people who can't get to cities, or are willing to pay extra for those extra resources, that the city is making 100% profit, and all you need to do is maintain the equilibrium.
Daganev, have you looked at POLITICS lately? Serenwilde controls one village, Estelbar. From Estelbar, our main tithes are grain (which is why our shop -used- to have a lot of it), eggs, and milk. We get all the vegetarian foods from it. Meaning... our commune doesn't get metals or meats. Which means, my goodnes... that I -do- have to buy them for the commune.
As for having over 30 of everything in stock.... the current popular comms, steel, leather, silver, vegetables, poultry can and do sell easily over 100 per RL day. Generally up to 200 or 300 depending on how often I go get comms. They are not stockpiled for housing or statues or totems or whatever. They are there for when 1) the village shops aren't selling (Estelbar was down to zero of everything but gems this month) or 2) they can't get to the villages.
Anyway, I left this post sitting here for a few hours now... so I've forgotten if I was going to say anything else.
Daganev2004-11-17 11:09:12
ok thats a good point. Lack of villages would equal lack of commodities. However, I do believe you can force a village to give commodities it doesn't normally give. But that no longer makes the commodity 100% profit.
Akhenaten2004-11-17 11:47:25
QUOTE (daganev @ Nov 17 2004, 12:09 PM)
ok thats a good point. Lack of villages would equal lack of commodities. However, I do believe you can force a village to give commodities it doesn't normally give. But that no longer makes the commodity 100% profit.
Go kill workers in other villages, they'll drop things which you can give to the general store, making them produce some of that commodity for a short while.
Daganev2004-11-17 11:55:11
shhhh me be not clear on purpose...
