That doesn't make sense.

Look at it from a logical point of view instead of defending your own city.

(As I've refused to influence Acknor or Angkrag several times on this basis alone)


If you hold Acknor, and Estelbar, you hurt -both- villages.

You are also saying that you support the culture and actions of Estelbar, to Acknor, and vice verse. Why would the furrikin follow someone who says the people who hurt them are alright?

The same is true for Angkrag.

I Agree, I never saw much sense for Ridanmos to try and influence those either.
If we get them, what do we do, kill our own villagers who support us for being who they are or do we betray ourselves and kill dwarves. It wouldn't make any sense.

The problem is that Magnagora had no problem with that so far, and had undead dwarves while controling southgard too, which puts Celest in an odd place and probably Seren too, cause we just give away two villages to Magnagora.

What -I'm- wondering is, though, is there some hardcode punishment for this?


In the sense that you'd think it would be impossible to influence both...

Or three times as hard, and they both revolt three times as fast.


Something that makes sense that having two villages, that are polar opposites, do --not- like being in the same alliance.

I agree that it is pretty ridiculous that one moment someone can be killing a mob and the next moment, that mob is being influenced by them in a perfectly normal fashion or that a mob would be willing to believe promises of protection if they hadn't got it last time around.

A villager being influenced and then slain by that same city that JUST influenced them so that no one else can influence that villager is just...I think it's pretty clear something is not right with how that works.

I think some smarter villagers would go a long way in making the whole village influencing process a lot more interesting and forcing players to really think about the possible consequences of their actions or lack of action.

That could make sense, but only if influencing also involved arguments, speeches and posts, spin-doctoring, sneakiness and things of that nature, to convince Acknor/Estelbar that they should like each other - which it doesn't. Just a little line of text that no-one's really elaborated on, along the lines of "You tell that your city is best."

It'd be wonderful, especially given the current length of influencing a village, if these type of things (posts, speeches to city leaders, etc.) had an impact on a village's feelings too, though that would require a fair bit of Divine attention.

Perhaps you thought it strange that Hallifax and Guadiguch were both a part of the Holy Celestine Empire, as well.

Politics is that most pragmatic of all arts. Its purpose is to provide for the well-being of its constituency. Its purpose is not to dictate morality, a common yet odd notion, and the point upon which you are confused.

The Holy Celestine Empire passed no moral judgement on either Hallifax or Guadiguch. It did not say that one was right, or that one was wrong. Rather, it mediated conflict between them and served both their interests.

In your example above, this is the role that any city both Estelbar and Acknor became pledged to would take.

In present times, Magnagora controls every dwarven mine. I assure you that Rockholm and Southgard will be protected from raids as much as Angkrag. They may not like the idea that somewhere out there undead dwarves exist, but their own people are protected. That is the real concern of their leaders. That is politics.

Exactly.

However, I'd like to note that the reason for longer influence times was to make Influence more competitive. You'd think, that with 4 villages going at once, it would be impossible for Mangagora to win all four. In fact, we pulled out of Rockholm, and conceded it to Serenwilde while we took Southgard AND Acknor simultaneously.

It took way too long. I'm thinking 2 hours, 3 max would be best.

These are not Empires, however. This is not the past, either.

I fail to believe that Estelbar would -oblige- an Empire, to allow some of their furrikin to be enslaved in Acknor, under the terror of Orcs.

I also fail to believe that the Dwarves would say 'Okay, we're alive, but our brothers are eternally trapped as undead beings in the mines of Angkrag, but it's okay!'


Before, during the Celestine Empire, things weren't that pivotal, from what I can understand.

Sure, there were tensions, but there weren't slaves, and the undead 'curse' didn't exist. The only undead were those rumored to be granted the status by a Vernal God.

Not to mention that such a decision, that is making a village more difficult to convert while your city was killing its citizens/has the 'enemy' village under their control, would be more realistic.

Melanchthon says that it was weird that the empire had both Gaudiduch and Hallifax as vassals. I ask him though: do you know how difficult was for the empire to make both of them semi-allied with each other? I'm pretty sure it was much harder then if it'd be for other cities.

Bricriu mentions that Magnagorans are simply so good at influencing. If the idea gets in, which I hope will happen, the city would have a chance to prove that, influencing a village when it's 3-4 times harder to do then normal.

At five hours of influencing time to get a village, and eight villages, why not stagger the times they rebel so that the cities can work on one or two villages in play at any one time. Inspires conflict but doesn't degrade the high action experience.

For example, Delport rebels. Since Delport is in play, the other villages don't rebel right at the same time. Perhaps even up to two villages at once, staggered like in the senate elections, so that the entire world isn't at conflict all at once but just some certain hot areas.

I like this new longer time, I got to kill someone! *dance* Sure, it was an absolutely pathetic kill of just laying around hexes and enemying people, but I'm still pleased. I don't mind the 5 hours, I think it makes for an interesting conflict to have things go back and forth as they did.

This entire Acknor/Estelbar discussion, of course, hinges on whether or not Estelbar (note that Acknor seems to be bound by default) is told, in some kind of affirming way, that there would be benefits to joining the Sovereignty. Should I point out that the magnagoran influence commands are 'Shock' and 'Awe'?

One can be just as influential working in the negative, then in the positive. To put it more plainly, one did not pay money to the mob because it came with great benefits. One paid money to the mob because the alternatives were more expensive.

Hmm. If and when Magnagora desires conquest, it would no longer be the Sovereign Republic, but the Empire of Magnagora, so I fail to see your first point.

Regarding your second and third points, you can certainly fail to believe whatever you wish. However, I should point out that the Dwarves did indeed make such a decision, and for the reasons I have already stated.

It must be nice to have such a clear picture of the world that you can even see it with your eyes closed.

I'm not sure exactly what you are quoting, here, since I don't think it weird but rather practical. Also, allow me to clarify that I at no point spoke of ease or difficulty. Doing so now, I will say that nothing is ever easy in the final analysis.

Perhaps if villages could revolt at the turn of a day rather than the turn of a month. This would mean that the revolt could possibly happen at 3 AM EST on a weekday, giving all the Ausies and Asians a chance at it. Furthermore, if it distributes the load of influencing by happening for different groups of players at different time zones then some of the fatigue would go away. For example, Australia and Korea takes Ankrag, Canada and America takes Rockholm, and Europe takes Southguard by random luck of which timezone their respective revolts happened.

Thoughts?

The dwarves joined Magnagora because of the tales we shocked them with of foes who dared resist us.

The dwarves joined Magnagora in awe of what Magnagora could do for them, and power that could be theirs.

The dwarves joined Magnagora because we brainwashed them into following us.

So what if a few enslaved dwarves exist. As long as Mangagora obliges with a couple promises.

Only problem is most of the notable influencers for Magnagora for the first THREE villagers were the same people (very dedicated, very insomniac). I went to bed, woke up, got back on, and the same people were at it, two villages later.

I think that's an outstanding idea. I like the more random nature of the revolt timing in that scenario.

Even so, that doesn't really relate to the timing of the revolts.

Yeah, but village 1 revolts, Magnagora wins it, Village 2 revolts, Magnagora wins it...

I think the villages revolting together would be best, but take 2 hours max to win. If that would have happened, Seren would have won Rockholm.