I, the player, really dislike PvP. Sure, it's enjoyable to stomp on someone who's been a pain, but I came here to RP, explore, quest, perhaps do some mindless bashing. PvP can be part of RP, but I'm not here to play a wargame. That said, I understand that PvP is part of the allure IRE games hold for many players. I don't begrudge them that. Myself, I enjoy questing, hunting, socializing, and trying to present an interesting story. I'm finding myself far too involved in PvP and not spending near enough time doing what I actually enjoy.

Eldanien joining the Army, dying again and again to defend against raiders, going to slay undead dwarves to restore them, leaping to the defense of allies, friends, guild and citymates, this is the result of me playing out Eldanien's personality, mixed with Celest's general need for people with greater than creditless abilities to involve themselves in defense. "I must help fight, or else allow evil to reign unchallenged" sort of thing. Yes, it's made for an interesting life, but... it quickly becomes 'fight, kill, die, recoup losses, repeat', not necessarily in that order.

I'm beyond burned out on daily PvP. The game has lost much of the wonder I felt in the beginning. Yet I keep going because Celest is in dire need of all the help it can get, and I keep hoping things will calm down.

Am I in the wrong MUD? Is combat the sole purpose of playing Lusternia? Is a player -expected- to be directly involved in conflict? There are indicators both ways. I think that if we got rid of all the players who don't play for PvP, the ones that do would get really bored really quick. I'm almost certain the non-PvP players outnumber the PvP sorts by a fair bit, though I've not numbers to throw around.

Most of the Celestines know what's going to happen to Eldanien soon. Perhaps much of Celest. I find it a somewhat thrilling twist in the life of Eldanien, yet I'm also discouraged because it will likely necessitate more PvP. Oh joy.

I understand that in every life, hardships must happen. But I, the player, am not having much fun. Is the answer to play a character that buries his head in the sand when his way of life is threatened?

Anyhow, I post this here rather than in a ranting location because I really do wonder about this.

Am I not looking at the game for what it is? Or, if I should still be here a year from now, will it still be raids and mass combat on a daily basis? Does Eldanien need a change of perspective? Do I, as a player?

I play from the Magnagoran side, and I understand what Celestian players are going through (former Mhaldorian here). It really sucks to be on the losing side, dying, over and over. I, in Magnagora, rarely fight (except during Influence, when I'm an influencer, or special situations) if I can help it. I quest, I run a shop, I RP my character. I think something should just be done so that Celest isn't totally stomped by Mag.

I once suggested maybe we give them a break, or even on an OOC level help them(trigger lists and such). I think it was Valek that said something along the lines of "No, now go kill." So umm, back to killing :cm:



Large Mag fighter ---> <---Person trying to convice them to go easy on Celest

Honestly, I'm rather with you on this. I had hoped the Avenger system and allowing open PK on other planes would circumvent mindless PK on the prime for people like you where PK isn't their focus. Yet today I saw Magnagora "raid" Celest for little more than the fact that they could and there was, needless to say, lots of PK. The question becomes how to solve this situation? Should the entire prime be made a safe zone? (Yes, I've considered it.) How do you balance the dynamics of conflict with protecting players who don't want to get involved in PK?

I'm loathe to restort to issues and from the last referendum on the subject, few others are either. We are leaning towards making the Avenger much harsher but I'm uncertain if that will be enough.

Perhaps just saying that might make a difference to some. Hopefully to enough.

If those with half a brain could just realize that, just like someone who finds a skill that COULD be abused, contastly killing people for no reason will just end up in making this worse for everyone.

I mean, I'll partake in the fighting at times, and ofcourse because I'm not the first to jump I'm labeled as one that doesn't do everything for the city. But part of it is damn dieing hurts, and the other part is we really DO need to slow down the killing. I think Ethelon said it best, we're just beating a dead horse.

ALL of Celest ---> <-----Daevos or Valek

So help me, if I see the smiley combo again, I will .

PK is getting insane. But some people PK for the sake of PKing, and although some people think I do (I don't.), and they aren't going to stop unless direct intervention is taken.

At least they don't kill straight up novices when they raid, or there should be serious retribution straight off.

First off, Val you're a god damn liar! I'm the one who suggested that Magnagora lay off, hell I even had an entire council meeting about it and you can ask Daevos, Silvanus, Chade, hell anyone to verify. Im even good friends with alot of Celestians because im devising alternate methods to even the field. I've approached some of their city leaders in regards to a temporary truce/surrender that would benefit both sides at least until Celest gets back on their feet (power, level, comms). I've also even approached many people including gods about events that can happen to end the fighting, One of which that I spoke freely about was the release of a Soulless. This game is run by fighting and killing, yeah some people don't do it, but what makes IRE Muds better then the rest is the PvP system. So since fighting is in our blood so to speak, keep people fighting give them a new target to fight, a 4th threat whether it be a soulless, some demon, some fast foreign army, whatever, give us a 4th threat to fight against and the fighting that already is here will die out.

Personally, Im bored of killing Celest, it really isn't that fun anymore. I'm actually having alot more fun with my Dueling Event that I been hosting recently which is another alternative I came up to raiding, having annual/semi-annual duels between fighters to settle it out.

In closing, I'm not a bastard I have tried to cut them some slack and I also have really planned out events/ideas that can be used as alternatives. If anyone wishes to hear them, feel free to message me. Posting on forums doesn't work cause the only time I read this is when someone mentions my name and then one of my friends tells me my name was mention'd. Well Thats it Ta Ta!


-valek-

Chade signs as Valek? I'm confused.

And about the whole prime being a safe zone... Good and bad.

Good because it would stop constant raids.

Bad because it would turn the planes into runescape's wilderness. If you wander into it, and are a low level, you WILL be killed. The only real point is to PK there. Bad, also because the planes are small. Earlier, I was thinking of an undgerground area, like Forgotten Realms' underdark. Perhaps an area like that could be added to the planar PK area.

Pk is a hard thing to deal with. I just hope that it doesn't ruin the game somehow. I hear tales of that from other places *shudder*

I'm sorry to say it, but I don't see the Avenger as capable of solving these problems without making the punishment astronomically harsh.

All of the fighters went to Magnagora. Period. Ethelon and I are the only two non-Magnagoran fighters I can think of who are capable of holding our own in a one on one fight versus the big names, and I'm a rogue and he's just one person. Koan and Geb seemed mildly capable when I fought them but I've not seen either on the battlefield in Celest in a long time.

In other games, the miscreants and thugs are held in check by issues and formalised PK rules, as well as a lack of RP. In Lusternia, all of the murderous outcasts from the other IRE games are able to masquerade their rampages under the guise of "RP". Celestians have the choice of either dying or doing nothing and having all of the NPCs in the city slaughtered. People like Valek(Degar in Achaea, it appears), Daevos, Silvanus, Kaervas, all get their jollies by making other people unhappy or killing them time and again.

Another thing that's hurting Celest is a lack of strong leadership to pull things together. Unity should be strongest when an external threat exists, yet Celest remains a shattered state. It doesn't help that they refuse help and go the strict RP route. Staying consistent in your RP is good, but there's a point where you hit too consistent.

There is no solution without drastic measures. That's what it comes down to. There are no fighters who can counter the overwhelming superiority of Magnagora, be it in sheer numbers, credits, or fighting prowess. The situation skews itself further more and more with every day as people flock to the Magnagoran banner.

The only way you're going to fix the balance is by fudging things and hitting Magnagora with a serious blow, while giving people a reason to go back to Celest. Shatter their nexus or something, I don't know. Bring in a large invading force after Magnagora specifically. I have a few ideas, but I can't flesh them out well as it's late and I'm low on time..

In essence there are two things you need to do: 1) Focus Magnagora on something else.. They need to be threatened in a very serious way. 2) Give people incentive to go back to Celest.

Frankly, I don't see much hope, and I suspect that the entire system will be out of whack until we see true Generals and Champions start emerging amongst the ranks of non-Magnagorans... Hurry up with Hallifax so I can have a nexus and some skills!

I do believe Valek created the name Chade to piss off Chade. But anyways, we didn't raid Celest because we can, we raided Celestia to lower their power. Then Valek died and wanted to get revenge, so we raided Celest.. heh, sounds fun .

But the constant PK is getting to me too, I dislike going through 60 power in 10 minutes, or not being able to do things with my whole guildwork that I'm supposed to be doing, which I haven't done a ything by the way. We did cool it down for awhile, but then Celest raided us and a few of them raided Nil. Edit: This is just for you Visaeris, since you can't hear my voice *SARCASM*

....

That's hilariously pathetic. "We're PKing too much! I hate using 60 power in 10 minutes! Wahh". Congratulations on justifying my claim that you're little more than a thug. You don't seem to care that people are quitting the game over this, you're just upset that you can't take enough time to do your guildwork because you're too busy killing people in Celest.

Incredible.

Edit: As a note, Valek, forgive me if I think you're full of it about evening the field. You're little more than a thug who gets his rocks off from killing people and being the biggest baddest boy on the block. I'd be inclined to believe you if you demonstrated anything resembling: A) a brain or manners.

Visaeris, since its kind of hard you can't hear my voice, you'd note that second part was pure sarcasm, maybe I should edit it and add in *sarcasm*. Anyone that knows me, I've never had over 10 power in awhile.

Sorry for the doublepost, but I'll go back on something, to help weaken Magnagora. Serenwilde likes Magnagora better then Celest, which seems odd.. it'd be best if Magnagora in someway attacked Serenwilde (No player would do this, unfortunately), like a ritual was performed by Moondancers to empower the moon, then Baalphegar did an anti-ritual that tainted the moon in which case Moondancers would redo the ritual to un-taint the Moon, then the Moondancers put up moon coven and you see Magnagora hiding indoors.. that'd be hilarious. It'd also help DoC, since the tainted Moon and things. If that did not make sense, I apologize.

The best bet to weaken Magnagora would be to destroy Serenwilde-Magnagora relations.

Edit:


Stop using my damn thing, its mine. I did it first, so ha!

Now Aris will !

Originally I wasn't going to jump in on this topic, but after the past few posts I now feel inclined to do so.

First things first, Visaeris you are wrong. 100% totally wrong. I've been in Magnagora since the first day of open beta and I've noticed a few things. Valek shows honour to his enemies, and I can confirm we had a council meeting about what to do. No-body likes flogging a dead horse.

I for one and there are a lot who think so, want to see a challenge come from somewhere. At the moment we pretty much romp those who oppose us. Personally I like it every now and then the have everyone in our group either praying, or legging it out of the area.

All the 'big names' you've told us about, bar perhaps silvanus (sorry mate but we all know you are a bit sadistic at times heh) don't thrive on making other peoples gaming experience crap. Where the hell did you get that idea from?!

We've all discussed that if Celest were to get too jack of the situation and no-one dare oppose us, IC thats what a tainted city would want, but OOC well its not very bloody much fun at all.

No-one wants to win easily all the time, otherwise there is no challenge!

In relation to Estarra's post...Well...I confess!!! I'm guilty of pking people cause i didn't like them IC, or I just noticed their presence in raids and I would sit out somewhere and summon off the who lists. I'd occaisonly get lucky (kind of like fishing really) and score a kill.

However I have now stopped this because I made an IC resolution with Ethelon (after he came and killed me and i dropped all my herbs and comms). After i made the no-more-summoning pact with Ethelon who was first but to congratulate me on my honour? Valek. Everyone seems to like putting :censor: on him (Tall poppy syndrome its called where I come from) But fairs fair Valek does what he can to make it even. I now see the error in my ways of random summoning both IC and OOC.

Even hosting his tri-anual duel fest (where Magnagora often gets beaten down, including myself) he's fair and doesn't make it one sided. He doesn't duel himself as he is trying to get all the up and coming soon-to-be 'big names' to advance themselves and become better. I don't see YOU doing that Visaeris, and in your time in Magnagora I didn't see you doing that either. Nor do I see Celest doing it. I have nothing to do with serenwilde but I don't see them doing it either.

One last thing, if you're going to beef up the avenger firstly have it recognise group combat, and also defending an ally. and Secondly if its a major beef up, please oh PLEASE reset vengences (not suspect but actual vengence) because it hurts enough as it is.....but thats my own fault for letting vengence get on me.

I'd rather have the gods to not interfere in this problem. No matter, how smart and well intentionned these guys are, they have big fingers and big feet

It's mentioned before, but Magnagora attacking Serenwilde would push it in the right direction for starters, but they probably won't, cause then they wouldn't get cheap alchemy anymore...which is the only reason they let Serenwilde have Estelbar and Dairuchi far as I can tell. People just don't have a single reason to join or stay Celest, not a single village, hated by Serenwilde cause we killed 3 Fae, crushed by Magnagora, the guards are so weak Mags can just come in, kill all guards and kill whoever they like inside, so it's not even safe if you just stay within the citywalls all day... there is absolutely no reason to be a Celestian except for people that like RP'ing a good guy that opposes all evil, or something. Course I don't mind all that, I'm enjoying myself either way, but it stings to see all my citymates leave the city for Magnagora and Serenwilde or even quit the game entirely. Making the entire prime plane a safe zone won't help either, most pk'ers will quit Lusternia if that happens, including me, fighting on prime is fun cause there's a reason to fight, raiding Angkrag to recover enslaved miners, defending your other villages, etc, the whole "territory" thing. I can't find a single reason I should fight Mags on the outter planes except when they try to kill a Supernal...

The reason there aren't any wars and RP is officially dead in Achaea, is cause there's just NO point in having any conflicts, nothing can be gained, there's just no reason to.

START

Well.....it seems that unless Celest manages to aquire a person with Jhui like power, this will be the result:

every one hour, some random magnagoran walks into celest and no matter how much celest , that random fighter does this:

which leads to this:

of course, right now, most magnagorans see celest as food, in other words, carrion, however, this may not last forever, you see, its not the hurricane that blows the mountain, but the gale, in a old japanese saying.

its true that power comes in numbers, but sometimes, numers can be beaten with a well planned tactic.

for example, currently, serenwilde and magnagora are in peaceful terms due to a they have struck, there might be something exploitale out of this, and if said city were to find this weakness, they can use it.

oh yes, less of this: and more of this: is a good idea, because right now, celest is possibly the city of snuggly bunnies and nursery rhymes as it is now, cuddles and love wont kill a heartless fighter, but a strong defending force, and great leadership, can turn this city into something other than the lusternian version of barney the dinosaur and friends. And trust me, thats evil...

so right now, less of the bullsh*t of cuudles and reacting nursery rhymes, less flowers, less of the butt parking at the pool talking about love, less of thinking that kindness and friendship will destroy the taint, and definately less of pacifism, gee, aint that annoying.

unless you sort things out and rhysus pulls his head out of his glutus maximus, celest will forever be known as magnagora's stomping grounds.

That, and i need a challenge.....

END

I think to fix this, either some sort of balance must be found between the cities, or like mentioned before, a new plane must be designed:

A huge, underground kinda area with 3 additional villages that produce the triple amount of power any village on the prime produces, caves, caverns, strongholds, tactical outposts, some sort of native beasts that can be used for strategical purposes, NO mobs like deathknights in achaea's UW, or hordes of steel goats that walk in your way when you try to fight. In short, some sort of _battlefield_... like the minitiature one in smoke mountain of the Newton Caverns...

Maybe this would draw away conflict from the prime plane, so the hardcore warriors fight for glory on the battlefield and the more peaceful players can have fun in the prime plane...

Or don't make it a seperate plane, but just an area on the other side of the basin mountains. All this without interference of avechna of course.

I think people are looking at this all wrong.

In raising small children, instead of punishing a child to death for doing X (like say, throwing food on the ground) you Reward them highly for doing Y (like finishing all the food on they are given)

Pk on the Prime plane would lesson, if it brought more benefit doing it on the other planes... Possible sollutions would be more quests like the killing of the Supernals/Demon Lords that where not as crucial or necessary for the advacnement of the city.

Like maybe the death of new beings would lower the rate of power gained by 20% if all are gone, and raised 20% if all are there and the enemies beings are all gone.

Another option is to remove XP gain from killing players on Prime, or other such thing I'm sure the creators would have a better feel for.


On the other hand, I have never had a problem avoiding PK. This is my first charachter that has ever done any of it.

Also, as far as I know, Imperian had very loose PvP rules and rarely had issues.


I think this post has 2 questions. 1) Can I avoid PvP and still be part of/enjoy this mud and 2) How can the game reduce the amount of PvP on Prime Plame. I think mixing these questions together would cause a bad sollution to both problems.

As I see it, I see basic activities you can do in Lusternia.
1) PvP fighting
2) Gaining wealth through trade and economics
3) Politics
4) Quests
5) Exploration

All of those except Exploration offer numerous ways to gather money and experience needed to increase your charachter and I also think each of those can be done without requiring any activity in the other.