I don't know why in the world it's doing that much damage to you. That's the highest I've ever heard it doing. I'm usually closer to 800-900, which is really fine as far as I'm concerned. It's just the fact that there's very little else to back it up.

Jet stream thing?

Staffpoint.

Hehe, at least yours does fire damage, which makes me kinda jealous... I don't even use staff outside of bashing, to many people in armour and with resilliance, blast is so much better in PvP then a Geomancers staff.

(At least agansit the more established fighters... staff is deadly to those with out good armour and trans resiliance, but I can not always tell that by looking at them.)

On an aside, kodos for the idea of Earth being the badies... never seen Earth treated as the dark 'evil' element. Normally its the stable, reasoning neutrual... or the caring motherly type...

I could have had sensitivity, I'm unsure, but it was the time when there were 3 Celestians in the room on Celestia and you had staffpoint me.. it did 1.4k and I decided to pentagram and start healing.. because I was at 300 health.

Mages are underpowered? Funny, I didn't get that impression from the Envoy Reports (though aquas will receive the most changes). In fact, it was requested we downgrade jellies.

*chin* That's...messed up. *grin* But hey, maybe Revan decided to make a last minute change to the report right before he left for Magnagora! *wink*

Well in my defense, I became a mage AFTER the envoy report was sent in, so I didn't get my input in, although honestly at the time I felt like a god, I was so used to being bad at everything as a knight.

Now that the intial infatuation is over, I do see we need some work, mainly in that our demenses need be more useful, or runes more useful. I could see a demense being troublesome if you had to deal with afflictions to. (although I still want to see the demense more useful as it is our 'primary' skill.)

Hehe, I wouldn't mind seeing some mage only enchantments added also, all the useful ones that people buy from mages a lot are also made by guardians, plus the others like waterwalking (rather have walking then breathing) shrink, and enlarge are in high demand, but no mage only stuff is... (This is just a gripe...)

couldnt have been our envoy report. It's been a major topic for us aquamancers for a few days now. We want changes.

Maelstrom should be more like halocaust bomb. It shouldn't require your staff either in my opinion.

I wont be putting any lessons into illusions. No chance no way... the only acceptable skill is invisibility, that I know of, and Planar gives that early on...

I'm an enchanter so I will be taking runes but not untill I transcend Enchantment which wont be any time soon at all. I will transcend Elementalism and aquamancy first... so you do the math... yeah.


Blast is nice though. I like that a lot. Im glad we dont have stonefist. Stonefist is quite useless on Achaea. I hated it so I became a monk instead on Achaea and guess what... their combos can take on figures at the rock like nothing flat even as a novice. I appreciate a strong spell like blast to fall back on especially since stoneskin is one of our few defensive spells in elementalism.

From how we've been talking I am optomistic for us aquamancers. I believe most our opinions in this matter have been discussed and addressed perfectly... but then again, would you expect any less from a guild of Lacostian?

I voted Moondancers, although in truth the class that has it worse off is, uh, rouges.

Hey, wait a minute- shouldn't we all be griping about knights? We still suck at bashing, I think. Don't we?

I really need to spar more, but from what I've seen, the only type of person my demesne hurts is a novice, and that's sad. Geomancer staff is sad, I'll stick to blast thanks. We have some decent skills, yes, but our demesnes are supposed to be our main form of attacking in PvP, yet every time I try to fight I end up either dying or tieing because I simply cannot deal enough damage to get the other person near to death.

Runes should be able to be thrown at the same time as an attack or something. I'm not trans, so it's useless, no matter how far I am. The only time it could be useful is if, say, 5 geomancers were staffslinging runes at someone a room away. Then yeah, maybe it will do something. Throwing one rune at someone that they can easily heal really won't do much good.

All the other reasons were said, so that's all for me.

Well, from what I hear, the Geomancers put in two reports. The first one was done by their Envoy, and basically....sucked. Didn't address any of the problems most of the people in the guild who actually fight wanted to address, and just had a bunch of fluff suggestions for even more stuff in the same vein as Fireworks and the like. Yee haw. But the second report was done by some others who actually knew what they were doing (No offense Mary, but have you fought a day in your life?) and actually addressed things properly. Don't know if both reports have been processed yet or just the initial one, but that might have given you the false impression, Estarra.

well as far as I know most opinions on staffs of the aquamancer's have been that it is wise to use staff only when you are bashing, as blast tends to do more damage. Whoever said that today, Kudos.

Just because something looks good doesn't always mean it's useful for you at the time. Spend a few days as a monk and you'll learn. Next Suggestion: Monk Class. Monks rule.

I had Valek help me out with my report. And honestly, he showed me that the key here is balancing skills, not making mages uber powerful Ur'Gods. I believe the Aquamancers will like the changes I put forth

As well it should be. But there need to be improvements to make an underpowered archetype on par with the others, not a reshuffling of things so that certain skills are worse than they were before and others are better to compensate.

If you put in that jellies need to be downgraded Revan, then I want to have a bit of what you are smoking. I've stood in a demesne with jellies going and it was not a hindrance at all. It can be bothersome for someone who has never dealt with stun before, but anyone who has will find it a minor nuisance at best.

Runes not only have the problem of being too costly to use in power at transcendence; they also are missing key afflictions that would actually make them into a functional skillset. There are no skills in it that will lead towards any type of affliction lock. There are no skills in it that will hinder healing besides stupidity and reckless. You can use the random rune, but that is 2 power a pop for a slight chance of giving a person an affliction the rest of the runes will not give. None of the runes augment the abilities that we already have. It is another reason why city statues are not that effective, key afflictions missing that are needed to actually slow invaders down.

I think the mage archetype must be balanced in the same fashion that druids in Achaea are balanced to a certain degree. Inside of his/her demesne, a mage should be an extreme force to be reckoned with when they are transcendent in their skills. A person should have to be on the ball to kill the mage in his realm. Outside of their demesne they should be noticeably weaker and easier to handle. Right now it is pretty much a fact that a mage in or out of his demesne (geomancers and aquamancers in particular) really does not make much of a difference in his power. The demesne will at best annoy a knowledgeable attacker, but it is not seen as a component of the mage's power that can be deadly

I have to agree with most things that has been said so far about Mages so far. Besides having horrendous physical proctections even with greatrobes and tower shields we really do horrible damage and can barely afflict as well (3 to 4 seconds to sling one rune). But when you look closer, at least the Geomancers are better off offensively than Aquamancers. Geomancers at least get rockslide (extra damage), poison (constant afflicting cloud), and sickening (extra afflictions). In addition to having chasm, an instant kill I heard is as powerful as Soulless. On the other hand, an Aquamancers gets, um, jellies (stun), sweetfount (heals affliction slowly), and healspring (heals health slowly, and dilute Though we both got the awesome turtle and wyrms that do almost no damage.

Warriors are the damage experts in Lusternia while the Guardians are affliction experts, but that leaves Mage archetypes with pathetic damage and afflictions to rely on in any fights. And the reason I think Revan asked for Jellies to be changed because we have nearly no damage alternatives beside staff and turtle.

It would be great if a closer look into the Mage archetype could be made, because as of right now, we are easily the worst of all the archetypes when it comes to fighting.

Geb, I think you might be missing the point or maybe Estarra didn't clarify enough. It probably went something like this: If said demense upgrade and new demense skills are put in, then I suggest downgrading jellies time to help balance it out.

And considering the fact that Valek helped Revan a lot, I'd say its got a damn good chance it was something like that, because Valek has been writing reports about weakening Knights defence (has anyone killed a Knight with damage that was sipping health? I killed Mordechai with 3 tortures, but he was also venomlocked at that time).

Although Runes should be a nice effective skillset the horrible lag after slinging really makes it less then worthwhile. I came up wit a few suggestions for this.

-Sling and Super sling time should be as fast as the Achaean Serpents or Apostates Evil Eye counterparts. Runes are much more costly then those skill sets. why be less effective?

-The Random rune should be very similar to Loki giving only a determined set of afflictions with one special completely random one. I believe power should be cut down to 1 power or removed. Inscribing the rune and using it up is already pricey enough.

-Summonable Creature for both Aqua and Geo's should be able to cause afflictions to aid in the help of Runes sticking longer. But only a small set of afflictions. When they afflict they do no damage. Must be ordered in order for them to afflict(?)(Like the Serpents asp)

-Illusions should be allowed to be used right before using Runes just like the Achaean Serpent counter part.

-Finally add the Emruz Rune (Tentative Name) which is basically the runic counterpart for Scytherus. It causes a relapse of runic curses.

Hopefully that should give some synergy between illusions and runes.
On another note Aqua and Geo wide area spells should be Enemy List dependant, becuase they have to may moves that also affect allies. Some Synergy between certain moves in Aquamancy could be allowed. And finally before Jellies get the Nerf BALL, it should be thouroughly analyzed. How constant do jellies act? Cant they do other things beside stun like poison or give sensitivity or stun once in a while and have stun be give out less? How long does the stun last? Say the Jellies give out three to four random basis afflictions and stun where lowered to be given less would it still be effective but not uberly powerful and if so should they afflict every 5 to 6 seconds instead? I suggest jellies cause paralysis, sensitivity and a few other afflictions like four or five along with Stun, and lower the probability of stun. Finally can Jellies be killed, if they are killed what does it cost to bring them back? Itd also be nice if Dragon Turtles could cause random knockback in 15% cases after every physical attack (prone with a stun effect). Im unsure what kind of attack the Wyrm uses but it could equally trip with their tails or something. So have Geo And Aqua beasties do prone type afflcitions once in a while and maybe some other afflictions

Just gotta love those smilies!

Last but not least will someone be kind as to post up all the Aqua and Geos form of causing afflictions out of Runes? With a good explanation of what it does and how it works and why it lacks synergy with runes or has synergy with runes. Thank you.

I'll remember that .