To be honest, I will always be pking more on Prime than the Planes - because I can't afford to get piggy back rides to and from the Planes every time I feel like indulging in PK. Maybe if I could afford the extra 2-300 credits to get decent Planar things will be different, but if PK for me is going to be restricted to pretty much only the Arena and in groups on the Planes, then I really cant see the bother in PK at all - I might as well just log onto Imperian or Aetolia where the rules arent so restrictive.

I think it's about 120 lessons at most (probably less) to get to the Elemental and Ethereal planes, and you can have plenty of fun on those if you want.

the problem is the planes arent exactly covered in planar gates to go through.

I agree. I personally would like to see more player-created rifts floating around and lasting longer, rather than simply being destroyed out of hand every time they're seen. Maybe set a small number of months they'll decay in, and then can be recreated after that long? I don't know.

Not for us knights, we have to about trans planar to use our nexuses, most of celest's active fighters are paladins, but none of us has high enough planar to use the nexus, so it takes us half an hour till we finally reach celestia or astral to hunt down defilers, cause we either have to get someone to take us there, or go all the way around through the Ravenwood. If we fight on prime, it's a thrill and extremely fun, if we have to fight on the planes, it's just an annoyance. They might be good bashing areas, but they're totally dull and incredibly annoying to use as battlegrounds.

Omfg.

I'm on water. Brona apparently...is on Prime.

I order angel kill brona.

Brona loses suspect.

I didn't touch him, he was a plane away, I simply told the angel to hit him.

And he lost suspect.

BS like that is going to get me pacified. Well, not anymore because I turned PK Careful on.

I think it's because the cities are still so easy to attack currently. Make guards alot tougher, enough that it's still possible to raid, but not worth doing it just to kill some guards and people.

I kinda assumed those who PvP need to get credits anyway to be of any competition, and you don't need nexus, since as a knight you have to use ravenwood to get to elemental anyways. Boy was I dissapointed by that.

I get myself involved in a suprisingly large amount of PK (much larger than in other realms at any rate) though not quite as high as some of the players here, and I've never had a problem with Avenger.

I've always had careful mode on, and I'm mindfull to try and provoke people into attacking me (or at least fighting back). Social manipulation can be fun like that.

I've never been Avengered, because I've never been uncareful, and I don't think that its a problem.

I do think the whole villages conflict thing complicates the Avenger. Perhaps the soloution is something almost along the lines of Aetolia's Militia system, i.e. you can't influence a village unless you are a member, and members lose all venger rights/responsibilities whilst in an uninfluenced village. That way, people who weren't in it couldn't influence (and therefore shouldn't be targetted) but if they want to defend the village, they still have standard avenger rules apply. Just an idea.

Consequently, something that may not have been looked at (as it probably hasn't come up yet) is people trying to circumvent the Avenger system by the manipulation abilities. For example, I'm attacking person A who wouldn't fight back, and therefore would get suspect status against me. I use my Nihlism abilities to force them to kick/swing/cosmicfire whatever me, and they become free game in avengers eyes.

Thats something that I'd imagine you'd fix as soon as you became aware of, but just in case you never thought of it, well, there you go.

Already had been thought of. Ordering your entourage or demon to attack counts as an attack, so before you could even force them, you'd give them vengeance on you.

I meant raids, not PK. As in I envisioned cities organizing a militia to invade planes and attacking a city (and I mean city as an institutional entity) more than invading a city and attacking its PC and NPC citizens. When you invake Magnagora's city walls, you are just attacking Magnagora's people. When you invade Nil and drain the megalith and kill its demon lords, you are attacking the intitution of Magnagora.

Cheers to Roark for making the pacifism time not be so bloody horrible anymore. I'd have been very depressed if I actually had to wait out those 57 hours of pacifism I had left...

To clarify for those that don't know, we modified the formula to tone it down somewhat. Rather than spamming the news with every minute change we do, it will be included in the next aggregate news announcement post of envoy skillset changes, hopefully today.

Especially when a change only affects one person.

Yeah but what a person!

This is kind of late, but I hear this complaint a lot, and I think it's a huge, biased generalization that ignores half of explanations that others have put forth.

Like a lot of people, I enjoy a mix of RP and PK, where the PK supports my role.

While I find the PK taken to the excesses given in your examples to be just as disappointing as you do, I find the following types of things to be equally frustrating.

Suppose walks in to find attacking a citymate, and kills him. can pray, come back, and attack someone else right in front of knowing that the Avenger will -punish- if he chooses to defend his citymate again. This is kind of what I meant by "stunting" RP.

Another example: taints the Inner Sea spire (which has some importance to Celest), and kills him for it. prays, returns, resumes tainting right in front of .

This is not equating PK with RP. It is saying that sometimes PK is necessary to uphold RP. And being punished with pacifism for doing this isn't good. Further, it gives people the ability to avoid PK that their own actions have invited by abusing the fact that the Avenger doesn't currently understand these situations. The people who abuse these things will do it on the Prime plane, which doesn't give those who wish to react according to their RP the option of moving the conflict to another plane.

I fully understand that. I also fully understand that PK is a part of teh game, and shoudl be there. But what' I've really only seen through this thread, is people whining about how their inability to go around killing people is stunting their ability to RP. From this thread, I've gotten the soul impression that these people seem to think that they can't RP if they can't kill anyone else.

As I said, I know that PK is a part of the game, and am quite accepting of that. But honestly, it's not the main part of the game. If people are here to do nothing but PK(and through in other things to play along), then I'd honestly prefer them not here.

Dritex, thank you for ignoring Dumihru's point about how murder -is- apart of RP, and how pacifism is shafting it, then pointlessly repeating yourself without anymore proof to say why your faulty ideals about kill-happy players isn't a full plate of manure. You are a bright fellah, and I see you gaining the confidence to jump off the high dive some day.

And Rafael, thank you for blatantly ignoring my many times stated. My hope for you has been raised even higher.

Firstly, not being able to go around and kill people actually DOES impete some people's RP, they don't just think it, it does...and secondly, playercombat IS the main part of the game, why do you think 95% of all the existing skills are designed for PK? Do you think the designers have worked their rears off on creating skills for years and painstalkingly balancing them, just to have everyone bash, chat, influence and keep shops?