Well, glad that's all cleared up then. And I think what Noku meant was that lots of people think Valek's evil and stuff, and he must've assumed I was using him as an example. No worries either way.

Valek is just the first name of one of the major combatants that popped into my head when thinking of ways to explain how I believe Magnagora can't be considered evil.

Even if he wears jester shoes...

DnD values, I tend to view as good, neutral, evil (lawful, chaotic, lawful).

But that's super-simplified.

However, when the Demon Lords are in the realms of Domination, Rage, and Cruelty, and the Supernals are Justice, Compassion, etc...

While Hazar's reply was clear and concise, I feel that it is hard to drive home this point to each and every player in Lusternia. People tend to associate concepts with something they can identify with. As such, an 'anti-city vs anti-taint vs anti-light' scenario is harder to achieve than it sounds.

Already we can see from other posters that people tend to relate to:
1) Previous IRE games (eg. Magnagora = Mhaldor, Serenwilde = Forestal)
2) Other RPG concepts (DnD alignment system)

Personally, I dislike DnD's alignment categorization, if for no other reason than the fact that it is too 'pervasive'. Too many people see their characters as 'lawful good' or 'neutral evil', yet there are too many different views on what constitutes 'good' or 'evil'. I'd prefer something more tangible, such as specific actions that your character will or will not engage in.

I remember Palladium's system (I believe I was reading Heroes Unlimited) distinguishes characters based on certain values, such as:
1)Will you resort to torturing your enemy for information?
2)Will you keep your word even to your enemy?
3)Will you attack a defenseless enemy?

I vaguely remember that at the end of the section on alignment, they list certain well-known characters which fall in the same category as your character, such as Han Solo from Star Wars etc. I think this helps people have a better idea of how to portray their characters.

Sure beats the age-old 'I am eviler but more lawful than j00!!11one'

It doesn't help that we have Demon Lords and Supernals and possibly whatever things live on Vortex and Continuum. Actually, even those sort of help to stereotype them. A city bonded to a plane called Celestia is difficult to de-goodise.

*gags and skips the reading part* Im not gonna go into the lesson yet again. Good Evil and Neutral are all stupid words when used in this instance. You cannot say this is this and that is that because these words are merely opinion. Whats evil to me may not be evil to you. Get over the labeling stage of life children!

Nepthysia, I suggest you go back and don't skip the reading part. They're all agreeing with you, not "in the labelling part of life"

*pet* I dont waste my time. Im gonna say the same thing whether I read it or not. Not everyone posted and that thoughts still very popular opinion so it still applies.

I wouldn't totally throw aside good, evil, neutral, just as I don't totally throw aside liberal, conservative, etc. Granted, there are many shades of grey, but black and white have their places.

There is no character development in Lusternia, this game has devolved into little more than the standard cliche "good neutral evil".

So yes, you're wrong.

My character as a Magnagoran could easily have been defined as violent. I don't think, however, she's evil. Merely set in her beliefs, distrustful of anything she doesn't know about, and always ready with criticism for her superiors.

I didn't roleplay her much as 'evil'. She had a strong loyalty to Magnagora and the ur'Guard, and had a fierce hatred for Celest and Serenwilde because they fought against Magnagora.

I've seen very few others who attempted to flesh out their characters, so I'd have to agree it's mostly degenerating into the stereotypes from the other IRE games.

There is also a problem for people, say in Celest, who want to roleplay a character absolutely devoted to the Light, willing to do whatever it takes...they will end up taking heavy hits from their 'fellows' and possibly be punished for it....Erion is a perfect example. He was willing to slay the fae to further the cause of the Light. Is this bad RP? Hellz no. He was branded an evil murderer of innocent beings and got insulted by nearly all of Celest because of it.

My character has been kind of neutral as of late...but I think I'm going to turn from that path, and try to make him as 'evil' as the Light will allow....

For those of you from Imperian...could we say that Antioch was the good city? They were opposed to magick, much as Celest is opposed to the Taint....and they had tons of characters we could define as evil, such as Neko, Incensom (or whatever his name is).

Un-ubermanche - Serenwilde, Magnagora, and Celest, and Ubermanche - Rogue

I like the Good vs Evil with Neutral in between and D&D -stuff more than anything else a game can come up with, in real life, everything is shaded, nothing is clear, nothing is either entirely this or entirely the opposite, there's always matters between that are never clear. You'd, for example, be a complete retard if you believe the US is good and Iraq is evil...In most games, you're either good, evil, or you remain neutral, plain and simple, much more fun.

I really don't get why everyone per se wants to drag real life mentality into these realms to turn it into a copy of the real world, instead of the fantasy land it's supposed to be...

Because it already is? It was like this when I got here and I just made a character to reflect on it. Magnagora isn't so much evil rather than vicitims who have adapted to survive, and want to survive. So they fight by any means necessary to survive and become more powerful and fight better. Just my take on things from an OOC perspective.

I'm not sure what the other posts have to say, but Magnagora is imperialistic nation. The British Empire was imperial, and unless you consider all British people evil (well Noku is), it would not be totally accurate. Yes, the majority of Magnagora are badass, but not all. Celest, same thing. In their quest to be virtuous, some have become too self-righteous. I always find that in IRE, forestal communities end up having the most compassionate souls.

The way I view it, good, evil and such are nothing but personal opinion.

The realm is designed to function the way the real world does: People are interested in the self, in bettering the self. This could be improvement of nation, improvement of body, mind, spirit, allies, etc. Everybody, whether they are from Celest, Magnagora or Serenwilde, feels this way. Self-interest.

As far as Good/Evil goes, I see no reason why someone can't be either and still have self-interest and work to that purpose. I view good and evil rather as a scale of willingness to help humanity, what degree they will go to in order to acheive said goals. (Will they slaughter a family? That would probably be evil. Will they give a coin to a friend, knowing the friend will pay them back somehow? That would probably be good. By my definitions).

Good and evil are individual titles, not something to designate the organizations.