Hmm... so... what do you call killing fae, killing commune members, working against Serenwilde in village politics, harrassing commune members, and continually insulting them?

I'd say that hurts.

It's easy to say "build your own identity" but with scores of people with strong feelings, most of whom haven't even read the history of the Basin, all we're doing is building our own dozens of identities, and our leadership doesn't even seem to be trying to build unity, though if they did try, I doubt they could succeed under present circumstances.

If you gave us a hundred years in isolation to work on this, there'd be a natural weeding-out process and we'd evolve to, if not a single coherent identity, at least a fairly workable consensus on purpose and stance. And according to the IC history, that's exactly what Serenwilde had: a long period of unity-reaffirming isolation.

Trouble is, the players currently in Serenwilde didn't live through it. We have to pick up from a history of isolation and unity without actually having experienced it, and without any real workable explanation for why we suddenly lost it. We have precious little canon explanation for our own past after the Taint Wars. Essentially we're told that our Commune just spent a long time in isolation and worked out its purpose and its stance, but no one quite remembers and can clearly state what either is. Or rather, almost everyone does state with absolute certainty what both are, but with precious little unity in the statements.

We could try having a new period of isolation in which we painfully re-discover that unity and purpose (and try not to run up against the lack of a conclusive canon reason why we forgot what the old one was), but the Basin won't allow it, and frankly most of us don't want to do that, either IC or OOC. We're in the world and we want to be involved in it now. The time for unity-building, purpose-finding isolation is in our past, right exactly where we apparently had it.

Or we could hope that we get a clearer and more complete statement of our purpose and our stance on things, perhaps from Moon and Stag (by way of Miakoda, Abeytu, etc.), perhaps from Lady Lisaera and Lord Auseklis, perhaps by other means.

But I think that, speaking OOC, the Gods are reluctant to come in and tell us what we stand for -- they keep hoping we'll choose for ourselves by some miracle that I just don't see coming. And maybe they're reluctant to stand in front of a bunch of incredibly opinionated people and say, essentially, "you over there are right about this, and you over there are wrong". The only way to avoid offending and driving away half the Commune (and maybe driving players from Lusternia entirely) is to be wishy-washy.

But wishy-washy isn't working either. The incoherence is also driving people away. The disease of disunity and lack of purpose is there, and it will have its effects whether we let it fester or cut it out abruptly. Don't blame the pain of the cure for the disease! Sometimes ripping off the bandage is better; the sooner we bleed, the sooner we can find purpose and heal.

The issues with the Serenwilde do not lie in a question of conviction nor identity. Not directly. The majority of the commune bears a very strong sense of identity and values, including anti-City for nearly all members and anti-Taint for many of them. Our disagreements stem rather from a difference in implementation. How far do we take these ideals, what balance can be struck to maintain reason while still being strong for our cause?

This is the question that is asked before any organization can begin to succeed. For many years, Celest had yet to answer this, and it still is up in the air from an outsider's perspective. You had the pacifists who supported the light but did not wish to fight, you had those like Erion (and I do mean no offense, but your example is well known) who would go so far as to slaughter innocent Fae to acheive his goals.

When the Serenwilde can come to a consensus, you will find a powerful organization working in concert with each member in order to acheive whatever goal is deemed necessary by whatever means they deem appropriate. Basically, how Magnagora is presently acting.

I am not saying we should all do what Magnagora does, however their example of cooperation is unparalleled within the realm.

My hat goes off to you, Gwylifar. That's possibly the most sensible thing I've heard on these forums concerning the identity of Serenwilde.

Let me just mention something. This is a -game-. Some of us paid a lot of money for it. We didn't pay all of that money, to sit around and twiddle our thumbs while stuff is going on around us, waiting for another commune to open up, so we can do something.

We were given two cities. We can only work with what we have. If Ackleberry was open, we'd be working with them, not Magnagora. We don't work with magnagora because they're sceery. We work with them, because they have more to offer. And really, since Chade has been gone, we haven't really worked with them at all.

I actually hope that Nikua decides not to remain leader, because he's not having fun anymore, which is sad, because this is a game. I've come on to posts that pretty much say, "Any post made by a Gladheon is intended to shut people up." Celidon council in Imperian has less than 400 posts and Serenwilde has 706. I just don't see anything getting done in the near future. And it's really not the fault of the leaders.

They could either get the commune's opinion on a matter, which leads to about 20-30 posts (not exagerating), and takes forever, which then makes people complain that the leaders are slow and not doing anything. Or they can make decisions on their own, which makes them look like a bunch of dictators.

Who says we HAVE to work with anyone? Celest manages.

Not very well, apparently

Actually being a Celestian was a lot more fun than being a Serenwilder...luckily the Serenguard guild is awesome. And I agree with Alyvia: the leader, after being chosen for say, 10 ic years, should just make his decisions whatever the commune thinks of it, without them being able to immediately contest him, otherwise nothing is ever gonna happen, people's opinions are NOT equally valuable, most opinions are outright completely worthless, what good is a leader if he's not allowed to lead without bloody -constantly- being contested by everyone and their brother? And for the difference between Magnagora and Serenwilde, Serenwilde has over 700 city posts, Magnagora has about 140...

166 But who's counting?

Sure, Celest might get battered around. But they're still going, and they still have hope. And they don't need to sacrifice their principles for that. So, in a way, Celest is more prosperous than Serenwilde.

That about sums it up, yep. (Gwylifar's right again, by the way.) It's kinda sad how Celest is actually doing better than us in terms of internal politics now. Whenever I'm around, there's like...no arguing on Celest. (Well, almost.) But step into Serenwilde, and you'll be mauled by vicious Nikuans and AntiNikuans trying pathetically to get you to agree with various dodgily supported points so they can convince themselves they have your vote if they contest. We could do with more people like Gwynn around, that's all I'm saying.

Maybe I could stock up on power, and take an extended leave from the commune...

...but then I'd lose teleport nexus for a while, plus my CR2. Meh.

Actually, you'd TELEPORT NEXUS back to the portal of fate, not lose it altogether. And remember that you lose "Serenwilde flavour" power, too.

I think the problem is that there are too many candidates, none of whom represent much. Trivial changes, stuff that conflicts with what we historically are, or just totally vague platforms..

Wouldn't the power that I took from the Serenwilde nexus and stocked up on before leaving the commune count as Serenwilde power?

Or as soon as I leave the commune, does all power in my possession turn into non-Serenwilde power?

The latter, I'm afraid. It's only Serenwilde flavour if you're still linked to Mother Moonhart, same way as Visaeris lost all his skills like thrall summoning 'cause his power was no longer Magnagora flavoured.

That...sucks.

I can't NOT skim through posts, because some are important to Serenwilders, and I get accused of not caring by some people if I don't.

Even if I don't read posts, I still see the bickering over the city channel. Pleaaase sort it out, Auseklis/Lisaera? The leadership have hurtled us so far down a crappy path that it's going to take us a lot to get us back.

And Cronus is getting irritated.

Come to Celest, we at least have managed to get ct rid of useless bickering most of the time.
Won't comment on the leadership.

My political leanings haven't changed much, I just don't shout them over CT anymore. I made an RP driven goal for my character and now I'm doing my best to get a few other people involved with it.

Couple of things here.

A) Serenwilde is not a blind PROTECT THE FOREST hippy group, despite the term 'commune'. They live -with- the forest, if you know what I mean.

B ) As much as some don't like him, Nikua has always been a strong leader, if not necessarily a popular one. If you contest every other month, you become Kinsarmarian Politics Take 2: 'I'm contesting because you didn't invite me to a cookie-making party at your estate last month!' Put a time limit on the contests, please.

C) Why -shouldn't- Serenwilde try for villages other then Estelbar? It reduces the power of the cities, and it gives them more resources.

D) My Hartstone alt has 100% adept Totems. I want to send a big box of cookies to whoever made that skillset. I love it.

E) Yes, D was random.