That's my point, I like the Spy class, but also I just like the idea that you don't have to turn into a "Nihilist Fundamentalist/ Seren Fundamentalist/ Etc..etc...yadda...yadaa... The ability of existing not without nexus power but finding alternate means of obtaining it is what could enhance Lusternia.

I don't think a good rogue/spy/assassin/sneaky archetype could ever exist in a Rapture Based game as we know it. Each archtype is ment to be unique, and everyone knows what class someoen is just by the way they attack you, or attack a rat. Or the title they have. And if you don't have a title thats even more of a statement. Lusternia doesn't have any methods in which you would not know who somebody is. Shouts is about as close as anyone got. In Imperian with the idras... Everyone knows when a Idras is about, and its really easy to spot the novice Idras to make connections so you can find out who the other idras are. (Trust me, I did that)

I think the best way is for it to be done the way it is done now. Every guild and city has the ability to use their skills to act spy like. Anybody should be able to be sneaky and anybody should be able to be anti-sneaky. Once a group exists proclaiming itself to be the group of sneaky peeps, its lost all its sneaky potential.

Well, the Serenwilde are supposed to be like that, independent of cities and not wanting anything to do with them. In practice, that doesn't work yet, but I don't know if it could with time.

I am not really looking at the 'sneaky' aspect. I do tend to favour 'sneaky' skills though. Nementh, for reasons those of you who are close to him will seen eventually (espically now that finals are over) is rather fond of idependence. Orignal reason I picked Serenwilde... however, that didn't go over well... he was basically told 'Conform, or you will be called a city lover for all time, and thrown out of the city, and hunted like a dog.' *note: the version who told me that did say 'city,' and I am not giving the quote credit because I am not about to be labeled with using OOC means to cause them problems. They are very vagrent in their ways, so it shouldn't be hard to figure out though...*

But anyways, went off subject, I would imagine a guild like that to be a loose assciation so an individual would have something to fall back onto. And a sneaky thing doesn't have to be invisible to be sneaky...

CIA... Mafia... etc...

All I know is we are bound to have a class that uses bows and arrows. I just found out today that Wiccan's even have an ent that repels arrows by gusting them so I am sure Estarra has already put in plans for a archetype of that nature. The only area I could see arrows prominent would have to be in Hallifax for me. Air, arrows...they sorta mix.

Or you never know Glomdoring communes might use arrows...

Yeah, as long as it doesn't turn into a Ranger/Sentinel thing it'll be awesome. But I know the Lusternia team are way too original for that

Organizations like the CIA or Mafia have a public face but a very private and sneaky guts to it. Though you may know that spies in general exist you don't know which people are those spies. However in places such as Lusternia, you will know exacctly who those spies are, or if they outsource those who joined the guild to be spies will be dissapointed.

I don't see the point in a 'sneaky' guild - you can just tune a totem against them!

Perhaps give them totem dodging skills?

Also, there are many ways to hide members of an orginization... Its just a matter of thinking outside the box. Mechanics are already there.