Moondancers get moonburst which did 1000 damage to me when I had all my magical defenses on. Shouldn't celestines and nihilsts get a stronger attack?

Every other archtype has an stronger attack they can call on. Mages get their staffs, warriors get better weapons but celestines and nihilists don't get any stronger attack to use

Just earlier today you put someone down for saying Moondancers were too strong

Anyway, every guild has its own advantages. Maybe Nihilists and Celestines do need a boost, but they shouldn't have something the same.

You get your angels, Judge, and Absolve (with a mana sap skill). Isn't that good enough?

Or are you talking about bashing?

1) Celestines and Nihilists hardly need a boost.

2) They aren't really -meant- to be damage classes. A vast majority of their skills involve afflicting their enemy, crippling them, or pulling off an insta-kill.

Edit: It also might be worth noting that we do pretty close to a mages damage with cosmicfire, especially if you factor in fortuna and a possible lich (for Nihilists, at least) bonus.

Not just about bashing but even in pvp. Yes we have angels and demons but so does moondancers, geomancers aquamancers and hartstone but when it comes to damage we can't even do enough to scratch someone Judge and Absolve are good but they barely work

and the only thing going for celestines and nilhists are afflictions.

edit: their staffcast does far more then cosmicfire

I wish for a Immortal to close this topic, though I still stay celestines and nihilists need their damage upgrade but I just learn something and will not speak anymore of this

Im not asking for a boost, I want to make that clear, or to get anyone else nerfed. As a former Occie, I know how annoying it is to have people want to nerf you all the time. I'm good at not dying, I can't deal enough damage to kill anyone yet though. Fine with me, if someone jumpes me 99 out of 100 times I can get away. But as a Celestine Tae'Dae (my own fault) my cosmic fire does about 400. Now, I can afflict someone with everthing I can possibly afflict them with, and still only pull it off instat death about 25% the time. I also run out of mana several times per fight. BUT, like I said, I die very seldom unless fighting more that one person at once. That's not a bad trade off for me.

Narsrim, Lunar Thaumaturgist says, "Hit me with cosmic fire."
4416h, 5424m, 10p, 21640w exk-abjure cosmicfire narsrim

You allow an infinitesimally small mote of cosmic fire to manifest and direct
it at Narsrim. Cosmic fire blasts forth, dissolving his flesh in a sparkling
current of energy.
4416h, 5344m, 10p, 21621w xk-
You have recovered equilibrium.
4416h, 5419m, 10p, 21627w exk-
Narsrim, Lunar Thaumaturgist says, "That's utterly terrible."
4416h, 5419m, 10p, 21627w exk-say in a good or bad way?

You say, "In a good or bad way?"
4416h, 5424m, 10p, 21645w exk-chant fortuna

The air around you blurs as you chant the ritual of Fortuna. You feel the winds
of chance and change pass through you.
4416h, 5344m, 10p, 21648w xk-
You have recovered equilibrium.
4649h, 5419m, 10p, 21654w exk-
Narsrim, Lunar Thaumaturgist says, "That depends."
4649h, 5419m, 10p, 21654w exk-
Narsrim, Lunar Thaumaturgist smiles and says, "Is 484 damage good or bad."
4649h, 5419m, 10p, 21660w exk-say bleh

You say, "Bleh."
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21672w exk-
Narsrim, Lunar Thaumaturgist says, "I have +1 magic resistance."
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21684w exk-help human

4.14.7 The Human Race

The human race is the only race not native to Lusternia and arrived with
the coming of Estarra. They proved to be a most fertile people, able to
interbreed with the other races. Because of this, humans range in all
shapes, sizes and colours. Humans are the only race who make distinctions
between themselves based upon appearance, dividing themselves as "old
humans" meaning those with the original skin colour of their race (though
ranging from lily white to chocolate brown) to "half breeds" who have
skin tones of the native Lusternian races (such as the blue skin of the
merians or green skin of the dracnari or even the bright red skin of the
viscanti).

STATISTICS:
Strength : 12 Dexterity : 12 Constitution: 12
Intelligence: 12 Charisma : 12 Size : 12

ADVANTAGES:
o Gain experience more quickly, level 2.

4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21696w exk-say what about the magic skillset?

You say, "What about the magic skillset?"
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21708w exk-
Narsrim, Lunar Thaumaturgist says, "Inept."
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21714w exk-stare

You stare implacably about yourself.
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21720w exk-
Narsrim, Lunar Thaumaturgist says, "Lets try this."
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21732w exk-
You say, "I have 19 bloody intel."
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21744w exk-
Narsrim, Lunar Thaumaturgist says, "Order your demon to just give sensitivity.
Hit me with it. Them do omen and cosmic fire me."
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21804w exk-
Narsrim, Lunar Thaumaturgist smiles and says, "I guessing under 1k."
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21816w exk-stand
order entourage kill narsrim

You are not fallen or kneeling.
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21816w exk-
You order a hideous archdemon to kill Narsrim.
A hideous archdemon obeys your command.
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21816w exk-
With a cold smile, a hideous archdemon digs his claws into the flesh of
Narsrim, who screams in agony.
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21828w exk-
Wagging her finger in censure, a wood nymph whispers quietly to a hideous
===== ORDER ENTOURAGE TO ATTACK =====
archdemon, whose eyes glow green and then nods meekly.
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21834w exk-
Shinza clenches her fists and grits her teeth.
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21834w exk-
Shinza takes a drink from a ruby vial.
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21834w exk-say got it?

You say, "Got it?"
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21840w exk-
Narsrim nods his head emphatically.
4668h, 5424m, 10p, 21846w exk-darkchant omen narsrim

You pronounce that Narsrim is under an ill omen and watch in satisfaction as a
dark symbol flickers upon his forehead.
4668h, 5074m, 6p, 21802w xk-
You have recovered equilibrium.
4668h, 5074m, 6p, 21808w exk-abjure cosmicfire narsrim

You allow an infinitesimally small mote of cosmic fire to manifest and direct
it at Narsrim. Cosmic fire blasts forth, dissolving his flesh in a sparkling
current of energy.
4668h, 4994m, 6p, 21783w xk-
You have recovered equilibrium.
4668h, 5069m, 6p, 21789w exk-
Shinza mumbles incoherently.
4668h, 5069m, 6p, 21789w exk-assess nars

You glance over Narsrim and see that his health is at 3241/3654.
4668h, 5069m, 6p, 21789w xk-
You have recovered equilibrium.
4668h, 5069m, 7p, 20980w exk-
The dark symbol on Narsrim's brow fades away.
4668h, 5069m, 7p, 20980w exk-
Narsrim, Lunar Thaumaturgist says, "I was right."
4668h, 5069m, 8p, 20980w exk-
Narsrim, Lunar Thaumaturgist says, "964."

Ok, I really can't be bothered testing all this again. Bus Dias did considerably more to me with draconis up, and without his artifact.

With his artifact, sensitivity, omen, and no draconis, he hit for well beyond the 1000 damage.

I would also like to note on absolve, as far as nihilist leech skill goes it's pathetic, and could not reasonably be used against anyone with sparkleberry(no need for a mana vial). You could ask Sudoxe for more indepth report in the matter, as I know he tested it a little.

I'm not asking for it to be changed, just pointing out you can't effectively leech/absolve.

Also just pointing out that it is possible to kill with damage as a nihilist, it just takes a little more skill than using cosmicfire over and over. However you may very well be right that the damage is somewhat low.

All in all nihilists (I can't comment on celestians) are about the most versatile guild out there, (though in my opinion not the most overpowered). If one tactic doesn't work, there is always a plan B or C

As soon as I see Guardians not destroying everyone in Free-for-All after Free-for-All, I'll give this more weight.

I'd also like to point out that combat isn't supposed to be easy, it's meant to be something that takes a very long time to get your success rate up. Most of the great fighters in Lusternia already have a lot of practice in other realms, and use their time effectively to get used to all the differences in Lusternia.

Lastly, you have Envoys for a reason, and I don't remember any specific complaints about damage done by Guardians.

To be honest I've never had that many problems killing people with damage, we can give a lot of afflictions that make killing with damage easier.

If somebody says again that the turtle is comparable to angels then I'll explode. She just allows us to walk on water (well, she does walk on water) and gives some damage now and then.
No aflictions, no programming of aflictions... Definitly not an angel/demon

Turtles own, if I had a turtle, I would have no reason to complain about any of my skills because the turtle would be so very amazing, and better than any other ent, or group of ents ever.

And why do you say so? Maybe is just that I am not lucky wiht the turtles I call? Because really, mine is there more for RP than for actual PvP

Turtles are bloody awesome to look at - pity they suck for everything else. Waterwalk is fun, sure, but not for 10 power, when guardians get it for... what, 60 mana? When you consider that the majority of Aquamancers are merians (and to a lesser extent mugwumps) waterbreathe is really not as helpful as it sounds.

I'd much rather have waterwalk and have to get a waterbreathe enchantment, as an Aquamancer, than waterbreathe and a 10 power pet that does little else.

Sorry to hijack the thread... maybe you could have lich mildly increase cosmicfire's power at night, and something similar for Celestines? If you still need the update at all, bearing in mind what Lisaera said.

lich increases intel, so yeah, it does increase damage =)

Also, I was being sarcastic. I never even knew that it costs 10 power, my thrall doesn't cost that, heh.

Well, to be fair, Lisaera, those Guardians I see owning FFAs tend to go the Tarot (Enigma'd Aeon+Hangedman)+Affliction (Archdemon)+Barbedtail sting route - not using cosmicfire. So for those wanting to Wrack and/or damage kill, they're out of luck.

Just for comparison, I ran these tests last night on a dracnari who had transcendent magic. The int mentioned before each test is -my- int.

16 int, no modifiers.
Damage Test: 675, 675, 675

16 int, demonscales.
Damage Test: 520

16 int, demonscales + draconis
Damage Test: 413

16 int, omen, draconis, demonscales
Damage Test: 759

16 int, sensitivity, draconis, demonscales
Damage Test: 674

16 int, sensitivity, omen, draconis, demonscales
Damage Test: 1011