If you summon it on its native plane then it is only 1 power.

Guardians seem to be fine. I guess damage just isn't their specialty. Just fight with afflictions instead, it seems to work for Kaervas, Silvanus & Co..

Guardians aren't a damage archetype, if you want to be able to kill comparable strength people with damage, go to an archetype whose main offensive ability is damage.

I already forgot about this o.o

I think the concern here is in bashing... but from what I have seen, Guardians die rarly in bashing, being they have so many ways to avoid death... I have a guardian and I enjoy playing it. It is a nice middle of the ground class, enough damage to be fun bashing with, and enough ability to avoid or heal damage to be hard to die while bashing...

Havn't done much PvP with either though, but that is because I am still working on basic healing triggers, then I will start worring about combat to a fuller extent...

I can't be buggered to learn Tarot to Aeon .

Actually, I don't think the problem is with Guardian's cosmic fire not doing enough damage, rather, it is that Moondancers have incredible magical resistances, and that's with bugged robe-proofing. I do roughly 600 damage to Narsrim with my staff and 18 intelligence. Considering that cosmicfire does less damage than staff, though a bit faster, and that Sudoxe has 19 intelligence, the damage he did seemed right.

. we just have no physical attack or good physical defense anymore


Edit: We have a very good magical defense just not physical anymore

I'm waiting for balancing. Mages (and Druids?) are hurt, but I'm curious if all guilds will wind up as potent as Moondancers and Ur'guard, or if we're nearing the intended power levels. I still feel there's a significant gap in the strengths of the various guild skillsets.

Myself, more damage is... nice, wouldn't turn it down. I still think Celestines physical defense is lousy. Is our defense really that much better than Greatrobes wearers? (Mages, Druids, Moondancers)

On an unrelated note, I finally got to use Sacrifice, whee and ouch.

How was it and your right, we lost two good defense skills

Guardians definitely need better physical defence. Knights get tankiness for free as well as their powerful offence, we have to trans resilience to get anywhere near their defences. Halo should be a level 1 or 2 cutting and blunt resistance.

Mages are still being looked at, because We do listen and We do know that a lot of people aren't happy with the archetypes.

I will say though, that there have been some excellent mage fighters, and one of the problems is that there don't seem to be very many people using their skills well.

Being able to disable the offense of your target as long as you want, needs to have a price...guardian archetypes can just keep someone entangled, stunned, sprawled, paralysed forever, if they use their skills right... without anyone being able to do anything about it, then comes the fact that they can heal themselves at an insane rate as well, giving them better defence would just make guardians invincible.

Then come mages...Lisaera is right about them, there are almost no mages that have any clue about how to use their skills, most I've fought just stand there and get killed, after I've finally found a way through all the stunning and entangling, throwing me around and afflicting of the demesne, then moan about why their demesne didn't kill me...seriously, you do PLENTY of damage, you afflict MORE than enough, you have great skills, just USE them.

In achaea, all mages literally had to do is set up vibes and point the stick, that'd kill even dragons without any effort, you can't expect the divine to throw them off balance like that here too. I haven't fought a SINGLE mage showing any wit or thought using his skills, he'd just point his stick over and over and over.... expecting me to die. So many skills, and only using one, then complaining you're underpowered?

If they get massively upgraded now, the first skilled mage fighter will prove the class completely overpowered.

Like Daevos and Valek does for warriors? Since that is your archetype too, it is all well and good.

If you know how to use the mage skills better than any mage, please go ahead and make one as an alt. Show us how it is done, Thorgal. If you were getting tussled by a demesne before any of the changes were made, then you just sucked at basic defenses. You can make a darn good mapping system, but you must not be able to strategically put up simple defenses to mitigate much of what a demesne did before the changes. I've sat in Koan's full and running demesne, it did nothing to me. It bothered me not in least bit.

- Afflicted with freeze, sip fire. Oh wait, sip fire first and icefloe has to strip the defense before it can give you shivering.
- Stun bothered you because it was going of once ever 10-18 seconds? (According to Roark, it use to be on an 18-second cycle). Heh, you must have never fought a Sentinel in Achaea who whored axestun. Or maybe you would not be able to even handle a simple mind batter attack from a monk. The stun from jellies was laughable and easy to get around even if you were given an affliction at the same time.
- Oh, you were getting knocked out of the trees? Have levitation up and it did no damage to you.
- Please tell me what affliction besides freeze was the demesne giving you and what demesne type it was? It could not have been the Aquamancer one, because all it gave was freeze.
- Supersling hit you? That takes around three seconds to recover from. I guess you never fought a transcendent Evileye Apostate or Swiftcurse using Shaman in Achaea. You would truly know the meaning of giving afflictions then.
- Phantom was bothersome to you? If you thought that was bothersome before the changes, then hellsight must have been just completely evil to you when you played in Achaea.

Just from hearing how you talk about how bad vibes are in Achaea, I can tell you were not that great at dealing with afflictions. I’ve fought many magi in full vibes, even the one you like to complain about called Tuerney. I have defeated him in his full vibes just as many times as he has defeated me. Full vibes are bothersome, but they are not too hard to deal with if the mage does nothing but stormhammer or staffcast in them.

Just because one person who happens to have a divine character says we do not know how to effectively use our skills, does not mean that the person is correct. They may have a divine character, but it does not make them an expert on combat. Another telling thing is that Visaeris played a geomancer during closed beta, and he found the archetype severely wanting. You see what archetype he chose once open beta started.

I forget what God said this, but that a Hartstoner (Heh) wiped the floor of every fighter in Closed Beta (supposebly, I had no idea)

Which would be Ethelon and he's no longer around from what I know at least.

It has also been established that a heartstoner is different from a mage. For one, a heartstoner has access to Asthma and Aeon.

bah! I said I'm old, not dead! I'm still here.....I'm so unloved. I'll say one thing about the mage skillets, I would sue completely different tactics than what they use now. There are many options they can use for certain situations that would help them but seem to get over looked. I'm not saying they are on par with Knights or anything, I'm just saying they are better than people give them credit. And before it comes up, yes, I have tested Aquamancy and Geomancy personally. Also, Hartstone getting Aeon off is rare...especially if the person you are fighting has any common sense to NOT stay in the trees with you. Not to mention the fact a simple enchantment counters the 8-power skill, which sucks.

Actually I lost to Terenas in a FFA the other day, he was pretty good. He used illusions to mediocre effect and lots of phantom... phantom is a very strong skill, especially the combination of recklessness and phantom damage which means you can be reckless at 1k below your maxhealth, very difficult for a system to pick up.

I was talking about AFTER the latest changes Geb, and I couldn't give a damn about afflicting vibes, Achaean mages are all about insane damage and retarded tankiness, there's not a single class in either achaea or lusternia that gives a decent curer troubles if it comes to afflictions. I've been every class in achaea at tritrans guildskills, and sure as hell fought all of them plenty of times...I don't think anyone that has fought me in either achaea or lusternia can accuse me of being a bad curer. And the remark about Valek and Daevos, Valek actually DOWNgraded various of our skills, to make them more balanced.