Ok before I start this one off, I do expect a reply from tuek saying he wasn't abusing it, which may be true but it was still used by him knowing full well that i could never 'bully him' since he owns my ass in the arena and outside of it one on one.

And aslo he knows it was gotten by a group fighitng during influencing, and he used it specifically to take me out of the action (which annoyed me and i had to go back and play achaea).

So there we are I wont post the log cause its spammy as hell, I'll post it if wanted.

Influencing, next minute tuek amaru and company rock up for a bit of a furball, so us Mags kill them.....no big deal, I get the kill on amaru and tuek. mind you i have pk careful on the whole time. after tuek is dead we kill his stupid aeon cat that bloody Patchou.

I had pk careful on an dnext minute tuek calls vengence on me, and im pacified.

I have an idea on how to fix this, It seems rather simple although these things probably aren't but indulge me

#IF Murphy has pk careful on THEN Murphy avenger = 0.

then

avenger tries to put vengence on me for killing someones ent, other accident which pk careful should stop me from doing

IF Murphy avenger = 0(IE murphy has pk careful on) THEN no vengence gotten

Not being insulting to coders or admins cause you guys do a shit hot job of keeping it together, im just pissed cause it was used to keep me out of fighting rather than its intended purpose which is to stop bullying or being killed over and over by someone much stronger

I dont mind suspect etc or vengences...even in group combat is fine for me, just when pk careful allows me to get vengence then it annoys me.

Otherwise its a good way of avoiding issues

Another thing, while we're talking about influencing sorta, would it be possible that anyone who uses a city/commune influence skill in a village that's "in play" wouldn't be protected by the Avenger until they left the village in question?

Villages have become Lusternia's landmarking, but if you keep getting suspect on people that are influencing, and the only way to stop them influencing is to kill them, its going to become a fairly boring time when every person has suspect on every other person who influences.

Just a thought. *shrug*

Both sides have used Avenger to stop defenders and Influencers from doing their jobs in villages

And I think both sides can agree that that isn't what the Avenger was meant to be used for, which is the point that was brought up.

I don't think Murphy was complaining so much that people do it, than he was that it's possible for people to do it.

Edit: Gah, am I making sense?

Erk, in my opinion this would be awful. I'm sure the fighters get tired of having to think about suspect lists and pk careful and whatnot, but consider it from the influencers point of view.

Even with the avenger system, we had dedicated people dying over 10 times in a Lusternian day while trying to influence... changing it so that people can be killed over and over and over again without check - it could crush the spirit of the player. Surely theres a better way to prevent influencers without totally obliterating their circle of experience?

Gods told me, influencing does not mean fighting.

By all means keep the avenger in while influencing, adds another level of stretrgy to attack that person or not or whatever, allows you to play smarter if you want to hide behind suspect.

However dont make it happen with pk careful up, thats my main gripe. I got pacified with pk careful on, that shouldn't happen.

Also that its being used as a tool to fight battles, not to stop bullying (what it was originally intended for)

You can't really expect peaceful village influencing when Magnagora and Celest/Serenwilde are in a 'war' of sorts. Though we have influenced peacefully before, remember Dairuchi?

Yes, I remember Magnagoran's attacking me in Dairuchi. Teamed by Daevos, and a few others, died, then ignored them because they were suspected, since my only goal was to influence and disregard all distractions. Then Val came around put a demesne through the entire area. I just sort of ignored it, since it was weak at the time, though sort of "played" with him, I.E. fighting with 0 power and no fae. Mostly I just avoided people, walked around hidden and camouflaged influencing. Anyhow, I guess that is what Magnagora considers peaceful influencing.

Well it was peaceful on my part at least, I'm sure people were telling us not to attack any of you

Could anyone make a concise (and brief) itemized list of every avenger loophole? It's somewhat hard to track then down since most of the complaints are scattered about. I see brief blurbs like this, but no concise lists of the entire problem.

I think the only loop hole that concerns the villages is when your in battle and you fight against your enemy and even though they don't attack back you know they are infulencing and you get vegence on I guess

*Blink*

Okay, can someone literate make one?

*Does a barrel roll, exit stage left*

During village influencing some people purposely get suspect on as many people as they can just so they can influence without anyone being able to touch them, or so they can go around purposely annoying the people influencing.

I can't say I've seen that working too well, though.

Tuek was going around for a while happily influencing because everyone had suspect on him already, and I'm sure there were others.

So you're saying the loophole is that people give away free XP by letting themselves be slaughtered repeatedly... That doesn't sound like much of a loophole! Anyway, the influencing thing is not a loophole. If you can't bash Tuek then you'll just have to influence the NPCs in the village faster than he does. He won't attack you because that gets rid of his suspect status, so you can non-violently race to all the village denizens. (And if he does attack then the debate is moot since he's no longer protected.) Or you can just not kill Tuek before a village goes into play. Sure, maybe he'll attack you and kill you, but then you have suspect protection from Tuek just like he was doing! So it goes both ways.

What I meant are loopholes that bypass the system, like PK careful incorrectly letting you give out a vengeance or such-and-such act aggressive does not trigger the avenger system, etc.

Apologies, but I'm not seeing the problem with this.

An in-play territory is NOT hostile territory. Players choose to fight. If someone wants to influence peacefully, and wants to use the Avenger to force that, that's their lookout.

It is exactly what the Avenger system was designed for. It is meant to allow people to participate in the game without fear of being killed for no reason. You even get to kill them once because we give you the benefit of the doubt that it was for RP reasons.

Village influencing was not intended by Us to be warfare. You can use it that way if you like, but remember that not everyone is or wants to be a soldier, and We're not going to force them to fight.

No-one sees my point *cry*

*compose*

ok. the loophole for me HERE is, that i got vengenced for attacking his stupid aeon cat when i had pk careful on.

and tuek gets insta rezzed with that skill so it costs him nothing, but its a moot point i was bitching about getting avengered when i had pk careful on which should stop it.

Actually, it doesn't cost you nothing. When you die, you actually lose a marginal amount, it just loses you a lot MORE when you pray. He was instarezzed, but he lost just as much as if he'd been immolated at the Megalith or sacrament raised, it just could be done at a distance and needed 5 people to do.