It's the role we've been given, it seems. As it stands, to many people are coming over from Aetolia/Achaea/Imperian, with the attitude, that they shouldn't need to fight at all. Lusternia is alot more conflict driven than any other IRE. If, Celest, or Serenwilde, accepted this - And learned to fight, or be more aggressive, to some extent, there'd not be a problem with Magnagora stomping them both. To any who come to lusternia thinking they can act like celest is Shallam - Go away. It's not. The only similarity is the angels. You're meant to be violent, Zealous, warmongering preachers, It seems. But, most of you are trying to be non fighting, non conflict, peaceniks. And to any Serenwilder trying to bring over forestal roleplay from other games, I say something similar - You're not meant to be huggy, or neutral. Sure, you treat both cities the same, but it's meant to be out and out irrational hatred. Not "We'll leave you alone aslong as you leave us alone".

The only way to enjoy conflict is to throw yourself into it. Forget the small experience loss, or the truly horrible time spent praying. See a fight? Jump into it. Even if you die, who cares, if you had fun and got in a single hit! As it's been said, it's a game. Have fun! Every IRE mud caters to different tastes. Lusternia happens to cater to those who have fun in conflict. Not those who want to sit back and just make gold, or those who just wanna preach.

Hey Gol, I don't think you're in a position to tell people to go away. Why don't YOU go away? It's not your game.

Here is the basis for my concern with Lusternia.

You have provided a rich tapestry upon which a wonderfully interesting world could theoretically develop, with rich culture, interesting modern history, varied personalities, and lots of credit purchases.

You have based it firmly in a classic struggle between good and evil, with some rather unique aspects that lend to some complicated interpersonal and interorganizational relations.

And you have provided for tools by which almost every aspect of the world can be affected, with the capacity to breed persistent and varied conflict between the different factions of the world.

And yet.

None of this means sh*t all.

Because everything in the entire world eventually boils down to the ability one has to take the lives of others.

Quests do not matter when the individuals doing the quest are killed for attempting them.

Village influencing does not matter because as long as you can kill the other side they'll never have a chance to influence much regardless.

Interpersonal relationships do not matter because if you're wasting your time developing interpersonal relationships you aren't helping your city gather power or defend against yet another raid or join in on yet another raid and so are chastised or at the least ostrasized.

Interorganizational relationships do not matter because, well, it's already been proven that what's basically a straight alliance between what's theoretically 2/3 of the world against the other 1/3 accomplishes little more than giving that 1/3 more people and important denizens to kill.

And finally, your rich tapestry means absolutely nothing, because anyone trying to actually follow the ideals ensconced therein or develop new paths of opportunity therefrom are just as subject to all the death and destruction that dominates our world as everyone else, and because their efforts don't lend well to this environment, they are ultimately irrelevant and, in some ways, self defeating.

This must be solved.

I'm just aggrivated. To many people seem to think they shouldn't have to be part of any conflict in lusternia. It irks me, to no end. The way some people try to drag over roleplay for Shallam/forestals to lusternia is also pretty irksome. I've known people who play all three other IRE games, have almost identical characters, in almost identical roles. Now some of them seem intent on forcing Lusternia to fit their standard roles. I heard someone even brought over numerous helpfiles straight from another IRE and used them in hartstone.

I think, given time, this will solve itself. On other IRE games, it's ended up one group of PK'ers from city A always encounter the similar group from city B, and hardly anyone else get's involved. Problem is... There aren't enough PK'ers in Serenwilde and Celest to clash with the Magnagoran PK group. Eventually though, The PK'ers from Mag will get bored because kicking a corpse stops being fun. Some will make alts, or jump ship ICly, to Celest or Serenwilde, and the amount of PK fans in each group should hopefully even out. A problem arises, however, because alot of forestal types from other IRE games are now Serenwilders. As a rule, forests on other IRE games are almost impossible to raid, damage, or threaten, thanks to groves, totems, and forest defenses. This leads to a smaller group of PK lovers being forestal elsewhere - And hence, a lack of forestal PK'ers here might be an issue. I can name a few serenwilde fighters, and a few celestian, but I can name alot more from Magnagora. This could be because ICly I'm magnagoran... But it might not be.

You are counting on people becoming so miserable that they abandon their roles as a means to achieve a better balance of power.

I don't know whether to be amused or inalterably dismayed.

Gol, the great thing about IRE games is that you can do whatever you want in them. If you don't want to fight, or if you just want to quest and roleplay, YOU DONT HAVE TO. If Lusternia were only about PK and constant fighting, it would not be nearly as successful as the IRE games that came before it.

I don't think you're in a position to say "If you don't like pk pk pk, then don't come here." And even if Lusternia is a 'conflict world', conflict is about a lot more than PK. Even some of the divine have said that they think there is far too much PK going on in Lusternia.

In Achaea everyone bitches about there not being enough conflict, here everyone bitches there's too much, what the hell do you want then?! Even people that never even engaged in PK are bitching about there being too much, let's all jump OFF the bitchwagon for a moment and have some bloody patience.

I would actually like to see the village influencing aspect taken out until there is a much larger player-base. I think it's an amazing and unique feature but the world seems just too small at present, both in player-base and in actual land size, to support the kind of conflict constant village influencing causes.

I would wager that removing the village influencing and putting in more areas and more unique quests such as the mansion quest, will draw in larger numbers of people. Once that large player-base is here, reintroduce village influencing, as conflict will be more necessary with a larger player base.

I also agree that every citizen being able to teleport at a very low level is detrimental. If you have foes, it should be a bit harder to seek them out. Otherwise, you have constant fighting. Conflict is a great thing. Constant conflict everywhere you turn, isn't.

That said, I find Lusternia a rich and beautiful land and only would like to see more quests and areas to draw in more people to interact with.

-Adiana

Gee, we don't want the extreme one way (lack of conflict), and we don't want the extreme the other way (too much conflict). What does that leave? A middle ground!

Maybe, just maybe, people want a good balance between conflict and being able to do something in the realm without it somehow tying in to constant combat?

I agree with Rhysus completely, and Kaelar.

Gol, I think YOU'RE the one who should leave. You seem to think this is a pure PK Mud, which it most definitely is not. Hm?

I like how you all assume that this whole thing is happening because Magnagora got bored and decided to go out and PK Serenwilde instead of Celest. There is a reason behind it all, and it's certainly not for the sake of it. I'm not going to give our reasons over here because I know some idiot will go and take it IC.

I like how you generalize everyone into the same category with phrases like that.

I'm pretty sure Kaelar would know, hmm?

And he seems to be agreeing with what we're saying.

It's not about anything you're doing.

It's about how things are set up, and the potential to do what you are doing existing at all.

And what reason might there be, Daevos? You and your city proved enough lately that you have the larger numbers of good fighters, so what? Or is the reason to show everyone that Magnagora can easily take on the whole world? Wow, noone really expected that. You slaughtered so many during the last influencing, one might think it is enough but no, you had to find a way to really piss of Serenwilde and kill all on the Ethereal...especially at a time where nearly noone was around to counter your attack. You ruin the game and that is really sad.
Oh, and Gol, there are people who enjoy pk and others who don't. I for my part had enough pk in a few other muds and don't want it anymore. If you are so eager to fight then I can suggest a rather nice pure pk-mud to you but if not then I suggest you think a bit before you write such nonsense.

Another thing, some might think here that a war means you have to destroy your enemy. Well, ic that might be true but we play here a game that has no end so the reasons for wars in such games are just to make a point. I think you made your point and now it should stop.

Different people different likes and I think this game those manage to a certain extent to be able to cater to all. It’s a given that pk can get annoying but as of late as been downsided compare to the first few weeks the game opened. And again so many different people want different things may it be class adjustment more power less power, more cities less cities just to name a few .. I don’t think we can have everything, compromise a bit perhaps? Can it be better of course and I think they work hard to do so. It’s always easier to see the bad rather than the good and point such also. This being a game and an interactive one to that , fact remains that no matter what they add or do in the end some of what goes on depends on whom is playing and the general attitude, not that the frustrations brough here are not valid but I would have to side with Thorgal on this patience .

I'm pretty sure there is a reason Magnagora turned their attention to Serenwilde, although Kaervas is right. Someone'll probably take it IC, and in a day or two, all of Serenwilde will know.

For the record, yes, there is/was a reason for the recent attacks on Ethereal, but I'm not going to go into detail on that. I wasn't referring to that specific incident, but as someone who has been in Magnagora, I know there are plenty of instances where people just kill for seemingly no reason, or try to provoke fights.

"I'm bored... lets go sit on Celestia and see if anyone comes up.."

Sure, theres roleplay for it, but the driving motive behind it is "I'm bored and I feel like PKing/aggravating someone who stands pretty much no chance against me." Theres a certain point where it's going too far.

Edit: Getting a bit off topic here. Regardless of the reasons, I still feel theres too much drive to PK in Lusternia in general.

Wow, ok...

Obviously there's not going to be a change to the amount of 'conflict' in Lusternia, just because most of that *is* the game. Villages, influencing, planes and so on are going to cause some sort of fighting no matter what we do.

Sounds like the real issue here is with the amount of PK going on, which is a pain. Avenger was designed to act as a deterrent for that, but obviously it's not doing so enough for quite a few people. We'll have to go and have a think.

Any suggestions from you guys?